Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

[veekie]

Which also comes from the fact the PRT, who were already disinclined to treat people fairly or nicely, will keep hunting her down for escaping from the Containment Zone. That's not unreasonable, that's rather justified.

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If she escapes, she pretty much ENSURED her own bad ending.
If she had waited to see whether the PRT can be trusted to do the right thing? She'd have lost nothing, gained 3 months of steady food and subsistence.
If she thought being treated as a pariah was bad, being treated as a fugitive lunatic is only going to make it worse.
Helping her escape isn't really helping her, unless you follow it up...which means you burn your own bridges once it's noticed.


In short, escaping this soon has made her problems significantly worse, and more likely to go insane(thus Simurgh Bomb) from stress or loss, than if she had at least given a few months to see if she can pass the process.

Her best bet is to get put back in(by force or diplomacy), THEN we do our best effort to see that she gets out the correct way, and at least has the welfare and safety from pursuit after, regardless of how she takes it.
I mean, what are the odds of her making a legal living if we dumped a single mother with an infant and no identity on another world? Odds are GREAT that the baby will die within 2-6 months from neglect if nothing else.

Letting her go is not too different from those guys who freed a penguin from Seaworld to have it starve to death in the wild really.

 

[landcollector]

[X] Abstain

I don't like anything here yet.

 

[Bailey Matutine]

Either it is being used or it is not, but neither of those change the Core itself in the slightest.

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Then what on Earth were we going to do to Purity that was going to permanently cost her her parahuman abilities?

 

[Always Late]

If she escapes, she pretty much ENSURED her own bad ending.
If she had waited to see whether the PRT can be trusted to do the right thing? She'd have lost nothing, gained 3 months of steady food and subsistence.

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But the PRT cannot be trusted to do the right thing, we know this. And there isn't steady food.

I mean, what are the odds of her making a legal living if we dumped a single mother with an infant and no identity on another world? Odds are GREAT that the baby will die within 2-6 months from neglect if nothing else.

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She's a parahuman. She can join a hero team and get living help through there. Veekie, think about all the possibilities and don't just assume the worst, you're better than this.

Then what on Earth were we going to do to Purity that was going to permanently cost her her parahuman abilities?

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Making someone a Mage removes the Shard connection.
And we're not making Purity a Mage, you might want to get your story straight.

 

[Shaseyu]

Also, it's quarantine, not carantine.

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So many strange letters combinations in English...

Now you're just deliberately omitting facts to try to win arguments. Stop that.

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In that case, I'm sorry.
But what exactly I'm omitting?

 

[Counter_Guardian]

Unless it's Lisa, it's not going to be straightforward. Nobody as any clue the Think Tank's powers will even reach, say, Earth Aleph. Only Professor Haywire did, and that was just a datastream.

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They don't need to reach alternate Earths, they just need to notice that we are lying, something that even Alexandria who's there might be able to do so.

Because the alternative is compromising your morals for a horribly unfair system that doesn't care about us.

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While it might leave Taylor feeling bad that she has to do it I doubt that she would put her father's and the others safety above her own moral code (something that she has broken in canon).

Which is nonexistent since the Vista incident.

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That incident has soured the relationship but we are still heroes, getting discovered that we helped Purity to escape will make us and the others into villains.

Now that's just false. She broke off from the E88, she's not helping Kaiser. OOC, we know Crusader's head over heels for her, and Night and Fog are mind-broken.

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Does the PRT know that? Yes she told Taylor that she broke off from Kaiser but she's with Crusader, Night and Fog here and again, for all Taylor knows they might have been affected by ziz.

I get that you want to help Purity but unless you can come up with a plan can either:
a) Make it so we can make all the parties happy and Purity surrenders herself (easier said then done) or;
b) A plan to convince Purity that we'll help her to escape, fake her death in a convincing way and then dodge the PRT so they don't discover what we did

Then helping her is honestly speaking foolish, yes Taylor will feel bad for not being able to help but the other alternative is being labeled as a villain and risking not only her own freedom but that of her father and the rest of her group for a plan that might end up failing.

And before we continue discussing the alternate earth plan let me ask a quick question to our GM, @Silently Watches, if we end up going with the fake her death plan what are the odds that we not only make a convincing show but also cast DS on her?

But the PRT cannot be trusted to do the right thing, we know this. And there isn't steady food.

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Now it's just you showing your personal bias against the PRT. Taylor in this situation trusts them to do what's right.

 

[Tsotate]

[X] Continue the fight – Purity had her reasons, but they aren't good enough to justify her actions. Defeat the villains and drag them back to Brockton Bay so they can be properly cleared. She's probably exaggerating the restrictions out of panic, and she isn't the only one with a sob story.

Purity's justifications sound an awful lot like, "I'm a Ziz bomb!" to me.

 

[kokuenDG]

...Wake up to quite the situation I see.

Okay, so we can convince Purity to stand down, but it has to be a compromise that both the PRT and Purity agrees with. Possibly throw in the fact that she's one of the better Blasters out there after Breakdown, and could serve as a Probationary PRT member in case she gets cleared to leave. Meanwhile, we could take Aster ourselves and take care of her while Purity is going through the proper channels to get out, and maybe leverage our budding relationship with Dragon and the potential meeting with alien lifeforms with advanced tech.

...When I think about it, how down would Dragon be to helping us out with this situation?

 

[Kinruush]

My only question is whether we could potentially teleport into the containment zone. If we can, and we can convince Purity to go along with it, then we can teleport in, grab Purity and Aster, and teleport out. Or dimensional transfer to Aleph. Either way she'll have to get a new identity and likely hide her powers, but we'd bypass most of the crap we're dealing with now.

 

[Silently Watches]

Then what on Earth were we going to do to Purity that was going to permanently cost her her parahuman abilities?

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Giving a mage a Device takes away their parahuman power and makes them immune to telepathy. It's the Device that makes the difference, not the Linker Core.

And before we continue discussing the alternate earth plan let me ask a quick question to our GM, @Silently Watches, if we end up going with the fake her death plan what are the odds that we not only make a convincing show but also cast DS on her?

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Well, that depends. Are you faking her death and using DS or faking her death by using DS?

...Wake up to quite the situation I see.

Okay, so we can convince Purity to stand down, but it has to be a compromise that both the PRT and Purity agrees with. Possibly throw in the fact that she's one of the better Blasters out there after Breakdown, and could serve as a Probationary PRT member in case she gets cleared to leave. Meanwhile, we could take Aster ourselves and take care of her while Purity is going through the proper channels to get out, and maybe leverage our budding relationship with Dragon and the potential meeting with alien lifeforms with advanced tech.

...When I think about it, how down would Dragon be to helping us out with this situation?

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Um, it's the fact that Aster won't be allowed to leave the quarantine zone without getting cleared and tattooed that's the core of the issue here. Why do you think the PRT would let her out and give her to you?

 

[veekie]

Um, it's the fact that Aster won't be allowed to leave the quarantine zone without getting cleared and tattooed that's the core of the issue here. Why do you think the PRT would let her out and give her to you?

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I think he meant breaking in, babynapping Aster from the zone and then coming out.
Since babies are difficult to differentiate, it'd be harder for the PRT to catch on to the stunt.

On the other hand the procedures are there for a rather valid reason, and bypassing them because it would make the kid a pariah does not change that the mother being a fugitive would lead to a worse fate.

 

[kokuenDG]

Giving a mage a Device takes away their parahuman power and makes them immune to telepathy. It's the Device that makes the difference, not the Linker Core.

Well, that depends. Are you faking her death and using DS or faking her death by using DS?

Um, it's the fact that Aster won't be allowed to leave the quarantine zone without getting cleared and tattooed that's the core of the issue here. Why do you think the PRT would let her out and give her to you?

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..I totally meant babynapping tho. They don't actually know that Aster exists since Purity's kept it on the down low, so if we took Aster with us and guaranteed that she'd be looked after until Purity can go through the proper channels and potentially join the Protectorate, it may work out in some way.

 

[Counter_Guardian]

Ah screw it, until someone makes a better plan or makes a good enough argument to change my opinion I'm going to leave my vote as:

[] Continue the fight – Purity had her reasons, but they aren't good enough to justify her actions. Defeat the villains and drag them back to Brockton Bay so they can be properly cleared. She's probably exaggerating the restrictions out of panic, and she isn't the only one with a sob story.

Sorry Purity but I'm not willing to take the risk here.

 

[wingstrike96]

[X] Continue the fight – Purity had her reasons, but they aren't good enough to justify her actions. Defeat the villains and drag them back to Brockton Bay so they can be properly cleared. She's probably exaggerating the restrictions out of panic, and she isn't the only one with a sob story.

 

[Always Late]

Now it's just you showing your personal bias against the PRT. Taylor in this situation trusts them to do what's right.

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And you're forgetting that Taylor called Alexandria out on the PRT's BS when the quarantine was set up.
This is just validating Taylor's earlier statements.

 

[MobiusC]

Catching up since the update but

She shakes her head, the motion furious. "They wouldn't have done it. Do you remember the protests that happened shortly after the Madison attack? They were anti-cape protesters, so most people ignored them, but they raised a valid question. If capes could be screened and let go after the fight, why couldn't the same be done for the civilians? The PRT's official position is that the precogs who can test for influence are needed elsewhere, that's it's a waste of their talents to have them spend the weeks or months it would take to clear everybody. That's why there is a protocol for civilians to be screened by psychologists over several months; it's less resource intensive, supposedly. They would never screen A— my daughter if it would open them up to further criticisms along those lines."

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.....So the PRT's 'official position' is that it's too resource intensive so they don't do any civilians. Not a law, barely a rule, just a "this is how we are doing it". A simple "Don't you think that Heroes would also have kids?" that the PRT wouldn't screen or pass the kids of heroes in whatever zones get made? Screening civilian family of Capes also doesn't run into the Resource argument either. Basically this:

How about option D: We make the PRT make an exception. Not letting a cape out because they can't get their infant screened is bullshit, and the PRT probably knows that. I think we can make them agree to have Aster see a psychologist as she grows up, no Death Camp bullshit. As for why, we just got Purity to stand down and returned a bunch of civilians and villains. They goddamn owe us.

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The PRT does something they very probably already do on the downlow, in exchange for getting a new cape on their roster. I'm sure Purity would make concessions to help make it happen in any case.

And the counter-argument that it would cause widespread riots doesn't hole much water, given that it's an infant daughter of a cape (if desired PR could easy go both ways). Now there probably would be protests and such if the family of civilian PRT was given a free pass, but since capes already get preferential treatment on Earth-Bet, it wouldn't cause any more problems than they are already having, and doesn't run into the resource/time arguments.

Also, who wants to bet that the reason so few civilians get out of the Zones is because life on the inside is so shitty that people have to do shitty things just to survive (join gangs, do drugs, beat the shit out of people, etc).

 

[Silently Watches]

I think he meant breaking in, babynapping Aster from the zone and then coming out.
Since babies are difficult to differentiate, it'd be harder for the PRT to catch on to the stunt.

On the other hand the procedures are there for a rather valid reason, and bypassing them because it would make the kid a pariah does not change that the mother being a fugitive would lead to a worse fate.

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..I totally meant babynapping tho. They don't actually know that Aster exists since Purity's kept it on the down low, so if we took Aster with us and guaranteed that she'd be looked after until Purity can go through the proper channels and potentially join the Protectorate, it may work out in some way.

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Oh. Didn't realize you were talking about kidnapping her with parental permission. Yes, that's a possibility, but if you're thinking about stealing her away in the dead of night, you might not have to push the "Purity will work for the Protectorate in exchange for leniency" angle quite as hard.

 

[kokuenDG]

Oh. Didn't realize you were talking about kidnapping her with parental permission. Yes, that's a possibility, but if you're thinking about stealing her away in the dead of night, you might not have to push the "Purity will work for the Protectorate in exchange for leniency" angle quite as hard.

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So it's possible for her to go through the system and eventually join up with us in Philly once she gets out then I figure? Neat.

If that's the case, then we should convince her to stand down and come with us peacefully, and help to convince the others to stop their attack. Standing down will possibly be seen as proof that she could be reasoned with, though we still may need to have her prepare to offer to work with the Protectorate in exchange for a fair chance to get screened. And we still may need to see if Dragon is willing to help us in this situation.

...Is Theo included in this I wonder...

@Always Late @landcollector what do y'all think of this idea? It's sneaky, but it does have a good chance of working, and we can be in and out before anyone notices.

 

[MobiusC]

Ok caught up.

Seems like Purity dun goofed. Her actions since the quarantine began, and since the breakout, are not someone who is trying to ensure a better future for her daughter, not trying to show herself in a better light, come in peacefully, abandon tarnishing associations, or any of that. Yeah it wouldn't be easy but what was she gonna do if she got away? Live in the woods?


Basically this, but I don't like just the default. Gonna think of some modifiers.

[ ] Continue the fight – Purity had her reasons, but they aren't good enough to justify her actions. Defeat the villains and drag them back to Brockton Bay so they can be properly cleared. She's probably exaggerating the restrictions out of panic, and she isn't the only one with a sob story.
-[ ] Talk her down – You empathize with her plight, you really do, but her actions since the quarantine do nothing to ensure a better future for her daughter. Running away now would only make things worse for her and her daughter now and in the future. And if she somehow got her a legal identity, she's always going to be looking over shoulder, wondering if she's every going to get found out. And Purity would keep drawing attention, the paranoia alone would draw her back into the E88 if only for safety in numbers.

Blarg. Basically Purity herself would keep drawing attention, and fall ever deeper back into the E88. Getting a good legal identity for herself and Aster would probably require the resources of Gesellschaft/E88; if we let her go she's probably going to turn up a few months later somewhere in a new gang. Canon, and in this story, shows that Purity would tend to fall back into old habits when backed into a corner.

 

[Silently Watches]

.....So the PRT's 'official position' is that it's too resource intensive so they don't do any civilians. Not a law, barely a rule, just a "this is how we are doing it". A simple "Don't you think that Heroes would also have kids?" that the PRT wouldn't screen or pass the kids of heroes in whatever zones get made? Screening civilian family of Capes also doesn't run into the Resource argument either. Basically this:

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Nope, civilians families of Protectorate heroes don't get screened if they're stuck in a Simurgh zone. They just get help getting out of town before the deadline.

So it's possible for her to go through the system and eventually join up with us in Philly once she gets out then I figure? Neat.

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If you want, I suppose. Don't know how easily the Privateers would go along with working alongside an ex-Nazi with powers as distinctive as Purity's, though, at least when she first shows up.

 

[tygerbright]

I'm not quite sure how to best put it into plan form, but I'm thinking the permission to kidnap idea has quite a bit of merit.

 

[Kinruush]

Seems like Purity dun goofed. Her actions since the quarantine began, and since the breakout, are not someone who is trying to ensure a better future for her daughter, not trying to show herself in a better light, come in peacefully, abandon tarnishing associations, or any of that. Yeah it wouldn't be easy but what was she gonna do if she got away? Live in the woods?

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I don't know that I can safely say Purity screwed up in this case. Her civilian ID isn't connected to her cape ID, so if she escapes, goes to ground, and stops using her fairly iconic powers, she might be able to pull it off. I don't know that she had a lot of other options either, given her priorities. If she wants to ensure that Aster does not stay in BB and does not get the tattoo, how would she actually go about achieving that without just breaking out?

As far as getting her to go through the screening process herself and just teleporting Aster out, what sort of problems is she going to have to address as a mother with the tattoo with a clean daughter? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just curious what sort of things she'd have to address in that situation.

 

[XkaliburRage]

snip

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Okay, no please stop. Why is Tagg so fucking trigger happy? Yes, in Canon he was pretty uncomprpmising but he was fighting against one of the most biggest disasters for remaining American stability. I mean the Bay was a fucking herald that screamed to everyone how America is going to become the next Africa!

Oh boohoo he fucking shut people in a Simurgh containment zone. Except, that happened years ago when people didn't have a whole procedure for the thing and the people for fucking raving mad and trying to kill him too. That doesn't mean that he will never consider let anyone out if they get some proper screening.

 

[kokuenDG]

If you want, I suppose. Don't know how easily the Privateers would go along with working alongside an ex-Nazi with powers as distinctive as Purity's, though, at least when she first shows up.

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Well, we'll just have to deal with that when it happens.

I'll type up the plan later, but I think it would work. Purity wants her daughter to get out of BB, and we can provide that. We just have to get her to stand down and play ball.

 

[MobiusC]

I don't know that I can safely say Purity screwed up in this case. Her civilian ID isn't connected to her cape ID, so if she escapes, goes to ground, and stops using her fairly iconic powers, she might be able to pull it off. I don't know that she had a lot of other options either, given her priorities. If she wants to ensure that Aster does not stay in BB and does not get the tattoo, how would she actually go about achieving that without just breaking out?

As far as getting her to go through the screening process herself and just teleporting Aster out, what sort of problems is she going to have to address as a mother with the tattoo with a clean daughter? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just curious what sort of things she'd have to address in that situation.

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To address the 2nd point, she could easily say Aster was at a relative's or family friend's house. There might be suspicion but they can't really do more than be suspicious and keep an eye on her.

Thing is though, her civilian ID is linked to BB. When that ID pops up in another city far later than it should have for someone who supposedly got out before the time limit, it will ting some alarms.
And more than that, there's no way in hell she won't be using her powers; she'll out herself as Purity super quick- and then it's back to joining a gang for protection. She'll fall back into old habits and then justify it by saying it's for protecting Aster.