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Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

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[X] Spell: Frost Beam

Panic grab! He moves intangibly through air, right. Can his dogs go through solids too? Ice the fucker, maybe?
 
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Always Late said:
If we'd retreated and dropped Vista a ways away, Dog-guy would have had plenty of time to shapeshift and pursue us, and Vista would have been very cross with us we were treated her like a kid.
All we had to do was remember to fly.
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Sounds like we were flying, it's just the lack of explicitly mentioning that we were going to carry Vista that screwed us over in this situation.

The problem I have is why Plan "stay in the air out of reach" required explicit voting to carry Vista with us, when voting to GTFO would have us bring Vista by default without needed to specify that.
 
Always Late said:
If we'd retreated and dropped Vista a ways away, Dog-guy would have had plenty of time to shapeshift and pursue us, and Vista would have been very cross with us we were treated her like a kid.
All we had to do was remember to fly.
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Wrong. my plan was Vista leaves, we stay. her power would have gotten her out of the fight just as fast as us carrying her. once she was out of range we could have droped recursion field and gone scorched earth. we would have held all the cards and been able escalate as needed. Vista was nothing but a liability.
 
Silversun17 said:
if she had refused to run we wouldn't be dealing with the fallout we are about to have with the PRT and Protectorate as we couldn't be held liable for Vista's choice to disobey.
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Forgive me if I don't think they'd believe us. As the hero with flight and time-slowing powers, we had every opportunity to flee and get Vista out of there. What you propose would probably have the same result as the current update.
Scope said:
IMO, it would be best to not involve Vista in fights where the opponent doesn't do non-lethal.
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You got a plan to keep her out of those fights, even when they come to her? Are you willing to lose Vista as a friend over that policy?
 
Since this event is basically over with, lets move on to what we can do.
Once PUtP and ADH is over, lets make some time to hunt down this son of a bitch (pun intended) and alpha strike him.
 
Always Late said:
We'd have made the situation a stalemate. Not actually killed him.
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Ah. Okay then, that makes sense.

Always Late said:
We already know she, and other parahumans, can gain access to magic, but at the cost of losing their powers.
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Oh I know that. We could end up having to do that to save her life.

And it's not really making an assumption, cuz I'm really hoping that she could be healed if we make her a magical girl. I'm actually super scared that we just got Vista killed, so if something like that happens I would definitely choose to go for it, regardless of the consequences.
 
landcollector said:
This really only provides incentive to have spells as Lethal by default and shifting to Non-Lethal on a case by case basis, imo.
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Always Late said:
I do agree with you there.
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I'm open to letting you vote to make spells lethal or non-lethal by default, but think very carefully before you choose to do that. You forget to tell me and wind up firing a lethal spell, particularly Solar Wrath that hits a whole area, and you're going to have to deal with the consequences.
aledeth said:
Sounds like we were flying, it's just the lack of explicitly mentioning that we were going to carry Vista that screwed us over in this situation.

The problem I have is why Plan "stay in the air out of reach" required explicit voting to carry Vista with us, when voting to GTFO would have us bring Vista by default without needed to specify that.
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You can move faster than Vista can, and so Plan GTFO would have included you picking up Vista when she started falling behind. Flight is therefore required to get away with all possible speed. Using her powers in combat does not require flight, which is why it needed to be specific.
 
*sigh* More people panicking and not reading the update? More people panicking and not reading the update.
Scope said:
Since this event is basically over with, lets move on to what we can do.
Once PUtP and ADH is over, lets make some time to hunt down this son of a bitch (pun intended) and alpha strike him.
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Given this:
Silently Watches said:
For a while, it looked like you guys would actually win this fight, at least as much of a win as was possible here. Several of you talked about the possible legal consequences of hitting him with lethal force, which would have broken his natural weapons and forced a stalemate where you couldn't hurt him and he couldn't hurt you unless he turned back into a human and split again, which he wouldn't do nearby after you demonstrated that you could actually hurt him.
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is the extent of our ability to damage Cadejo, you are, in full earnestness and honesty, suggesting we can kill him?
I don't know about other people, but 'suicide by cape' is not how I wanted to have Taylor's life to end.
kokuenDG said:
I'm actually super scared that we just got Vista killed
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Nope. QM was merciful this time.
Silently Watches said:
I'm being nice this time and only critically injuring her rather than killing her as originally planned
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Twei said:
be specific about why tho, I need someone to support me while I'm busy crying ;~;
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apparent asspull by the gm just to kick the players in the emotional nuts? particularly after the players had come up with a blatantly obvious way to avoid the danger 'Ground Dog can't get you if you're not on the Ground'

that's the main one, there's more but the primary reason I kept it as short as I did in the first place was to keep my inner asshole exactly that ^^;
 
Always Late said:
is the extent of our ability to damage Cadejo, you are, in full earnestness and honesty, suggesting we can kill him?
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I was thinking more a long the lines of 'fuck the unwritten rules' use Wide Area Search to figure out where he hangs around a lot and turn the surrounding area to slag with him unaware until it is too late to transform.
 
EternitynChaos said:
apparent asspull by the gm just to kick the players in the emotional nuts? particularly after the players had come up with a blatantly obvious way to avoid the danger 'Ground Dog can't get you if you're not on the Ground
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...But that's not what happened. There was no asspull involved in this situation actually, so I'm confused.

Cadejo can turn into intangible dogs and climb walls while in that form. The latter reason is why we chose to start flying in the first place, so as to not get attacked by him. And we avoided danger fine; Vista didn't because we didn't take her with us, so she was a clear target for Cadejo to go after.

So yeah, it worked out fine as far as everything went with us, but Vista wasn't so lucky. And she could've been straight up killed by this, so I think SW is being reasonable as far as everything goes.

...Can you explain where any other 'asspull' is? Because I don't really see any.
 
kokuenDG said:
...But that's not what happened. There was no asspull involved in this situation actually, so I'm confused.

Cadejo can turn into intangible dogs and climb walls while in that form. The latter reason is why we chose to start flying in the first place, so as to not get attacked by him. And we avoided danger fine; Vista didn't because we didn't take her with us, so she was a clear target for Cadejo to go after.

So yeah, it worked out fine as far as everything went with us, but Vista wasn't so lucky. And she could've been straight up killed by this, so I think SW is being reasonable as far as everything goes.

...Can you explain where any other 'asspull' is? Because I don't really see any.
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it's an asspull because we didn't pick up Vista, who is a hell of a lot less protected than we are thanks to barrier jacket BS, when doing so would have kept us both out of danger and not caused us any issue when it comes to doing what we did anyway, it's not like we need both hands to cast after all

this whole thing wreaks of Drama for the sake of Drama to me, and is one of the things I loath in stories and quests, so yeah /shrug that and handing characters the idiot ball which to me this was
 
Scope said:
I was thinking more a long the lines of 'fuck the unwritten rules' use Wide Area Search to figure out where he hangs around a lot and turn the surrounding area to slag with him unaware until it is too late to transform.
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The fact the QM rated that 'insightful' should be a big warning flag that you're Making A Big Mistake.
You do realize that is how we get villains escalating those same tactics on us while losing all our PRT/Protectorate/Guild support right?
 
EternitynChaos said:
it's an asspull because we didn't pick up Vista, who is a hell of a lot less protected than we are thanks to barrier jacket BS, when doing so would have kept us both out of danger and not caused us any issue when it comes to doing what we did anyway, it's not like we need both hands to cast after all

this whole thing wreaks of Drama for the sake of Drama to me, and is one of the things I loath in stories and quests, so yeah /shrug that and handing characters the idiot ball which to me this was
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IT basically comes down to SW erring on the side of using our Exact Vote instead of being flexible, I think. See SB:
Silently Watches said:
It goes back to precedent and memory. For precedent, I want it to be clear going forward that I'll do what you tell me to do in the vote. What happens when there's a discussion about what to do and there are two sides who cast the same vote but disagree at the last minute over some particular? Or when somebody mentions something and I miss it, but everyone assumes that's what's going to happen? If you think back, we've already had an issue like that with the Guardian Beast votes. Some people floated out the idea that a designed GB could catch up in power to a randomly generated GB, and then everyone was shocked when I said no, that was never how things were going to work and why would anyone assume that in the first place. I'd rather not have to deal with that shitshow again, thank you very much, and the best way to avoid that is to make it clear that what gets voted on is what's going to happen.

For memory, I only remembered the conversation about carrying Vista because of some jokes people made over on SV. If I hadn't, there's nothing in the vote to tell me that's what you wanted. My memory is fallible, and no offense to anyone, but if it comes down to remembering in-thread conversations or remembering what's going on at work, you guys are going to lose every time. Clear, explicit votes act as a safety net for forgetting conversations where nuances were decided but not made "official".
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Which is at the very least understandable. I can at least accept it even if I'm still saddened by it. You may disagree. Strongly.
 
EternitynChaos said:
it's an asspull because we didn't pick up Vista, who is a hell of a lot less protected than we are thanks to barrier jacket BS, when doing so would have kept us both out of danger and not caused us any issue when it comes to doing what we did anyway, it's not like we need both hands to cast after all

this whole thing wreaks of Drama for the sake of Drama to me, and is one of the things I loath in stories and quests, so yeah /shrug that and handing characters the idiot ball which to me this was
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...We didn't pick up Vista because no one voted for it. If we voted for it, then we most likely would've picked her up. But we didn't.

...This is a quest. And in a quest we have to make sure to include our decisions in vote format, or otherwise they don't happen. And if anyone handed the idiot ball to someone, that would've been us. This is totally our fault, because we voted for this to play out the way it did. To get angry at SW for not saving us when we stick our hand into fire and not expect it to burn is just being petulant.

The fact that he didn't kill Vista here shows his kindness, really. So again, I don't see this as an asspull or drama for the sake of drama. Especially when we were the ones who caused this situation to happen.
 
Always Late said:
The fact the QM rated that 'insightful' should be a big warning flag that you're Making A Big Mistake.
You do realize that is how we get villains escalating those same tactics on us while losing all our PRT/Protectorate/Guild support right?
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He'd be the one guy no one but the Mara Salvatrucha's would care about if I recall correctly.
 
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