Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I did! *waves tiny, 1-out-of-40ish-votes flag in the corner
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Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)
- Thread starter Silently Watches
- Start date
Well, you did. I didn't actually vote this time around!!!
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
And the fact you're not treating them seriously or considering how other villain groups will view this precedent is not helping your case.
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
I rated Scope's post insightful because from a purely tactical standpoint, that is the safest and possibly only effective way to truly defeat him. I'm not going to say it's definitely the only way to do it because that would just be tempting you to prove me wrong, but I can't think of any other simple way to bring him in.
I'm not going to say anything about potential consequences of taking this course of action.
Don't quite get what you mean by 'treating them seriously' but I do I have some idea on how to go about it. When I said fuck the unwritten rules, I didn't mean blatantly waving it's defiled corpse and advertising all around the city on where to view the spectacle such as blowing up his civilian ID's home. I'm pretty sure bases of operation are still valid targets. There would just be a lot more casualties and actual property damage if you want to stealth kill him, but those would just be henchmen and no one would be able to prove they were there if you turned everything to dust.
Then again, I'm not exactly looking for your approval either.
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Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
More like 'lack of attention to detail has consequences'. We totally thought it through and then forgot an important thing, I tell you!
Or, It Would Have Been Fine But We Forgot This One Weird Old Tip, if you prefer.
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Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
OK, I misunderstood what you meant. That kind of detail would have been better served given first, but I didn't give much detail in my response either, so I can't really throw stones.
Now I do agree that it is the option with the least personal risk to Taylor, and not just because SW says it would work, but here's where I think you're not fully thinking about the consequences and execution.
There are more capes than just Cadejo in the Mara Salvatrucha, both in the city and in their international organization. They would respond to our obliteration of their base and killing of their powerful capes very harshly, if not outright attack us before we could even found Cadejo.
And even assuming we successfully pulled off the plan you describe, and didn't kill any civilians in the process, there is still how the other villain organizations will view the act. Namely, 'this is how we're going to be treated, so we have to get her before she gets us'. That kind of aggressive, open warfare would mean the Protectorate and Guild would not come to our/The Privateers' aid, and view us reaping what we've sowed. Our only possible support in that scenario would be Cauldron somehow figuring out all Calamity Witch implies and pulling us into their Conspiracy... and they don't yet have the information they would need to even consider that.
See where I'm coming from now? Remember, Taylor isn't the only person capable of escalation on Earth Bet.
Now that was just uncalled for.
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
Per the feats thread, what she actually affects is distance, not truly space. At least, that's my reading of the included quotes. I think she gets overpowered by the fandom.
That's fair.
If Cadejo gets to be a huge dickbag, their organization shouldn't be surprised when a person with the ability to actually put him down actually gives out the same level of treatment he gives to others. If they want to keep escalating from there, that just results in their extermination.
The point is stealth killing Cadejo, why would they respond so harshly before we even do that? If anything, that just means they deserve to be exterminated to the last man.
Other villains wouldn't really care much unless we used the same amount of force on them when they haven't really done anything to 'deserve' it, if anything they would keep playing the game. If they are under the assumption that they can kill whoever they want (IE; Privateer members and Capes, cause we all know the PRT doesn't count civilian deaths against villains unless they are S-Class threats and/or already Birdcage bound), they're probably already like Cadejo.
Of course, this is all assuming they are as 'civilized' and 'moral' as the gangs in Brockton Bay.
If the Protectorate and Guild doesn't back us up, Calamity Witch is easily very lethal if we want her to be.
Seeing as the Privateers are not a government sponsored group or something like that. Or also entrenched with a long history in the city like New Wave, I am almost certain they are already playing for keeps with the Privateers. Kind of like how they already had casualties back in Brockton Bay.
If you see something wrong and help out with the plotting, I welcome those. But when I just see refusals, well, those guys can do whatever they want, good luck to whatever they want to do instead.
I am willing to explain myself to a point, but I didn't really see the point of doing so now since are current course of action is far from done other than get the general idea out there.
Frankly, I don't want Cadejo to be this boogeyman we somehow can't deal with and have to disengage anytime we come across him because we are too scared of public perception. Other options for dealing with him would be somehow safely grasping on to his claws and fangs with some sort of magic and dropping him into an active volcano before he splits into even smaller dogs. Very unrealistic and assuming he can be hurt at all in that form and won't eventually climb out of the molten magma, but whatever.
In other news, I want to weaponize teleporting. Other Worm characters can, so why not us.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Surprised and just letting it happen are two very different things.
And you are underestimating the Maras, again, by just assuming we auto-win against them. At least, that's how you're coming across. We just ran into Calamity Witch's hard counter, and you want to go to war with them?
You're making a big assumption there: That the other villains do not conclude that Calamity Witch will turn on them, since by your own words she isn't playing the game anymore.
Because we're an enemy cape in their territory.
And please do not shift the goal posts, nobody's arguing about whether or not the Maras should be wiped out.
You've got good tactical ideas, but the long-term consequences of those ideas make them poor strategies. The full-on war might be slightly easier if we can get the PRT/Protectorate to back us, but given he has the same status Lung has, without a way to beat the intangibility they will probably not help. I would suggest that, instead of escalating to war when we're not at our peak, we continue cultivation of the connections with Dragon and the TSAB. Through the TSAB, we might get a Mage who's skilled enough with mana to reverse/negate the intangibility. Through Dragon, we get Cauldron. They'll for sure have a way of dealing with Cadejo and the Maras as a whole, which we can make a condition of our cooperation.
Play the long game with me here.
FTFY, and I wish you good luck figuring out how to bypass that intangibility without being Siberian.
He is apparently a hard counter to everybody.
My point was that Cadejo isn't playing the game either, he is just left alone cause no one can do anything against him and in turn the rest of the Maras. These guys are in the nebulous range where it is acceptable to kill them, but you don't want to as well unless you want their group to focus on you cause you have at least one guy who can rampage and jack shit can be done against him.
We are both working on assumptions here, yours is just on the side of caution.
There is no goal shifting here, the way your sentence was structured was that they would respond the same way before or after killing Cadejo just for being in their territory. If that is the case, just kill them anyways.
Obviously he is going to hard counter us when he still alive because we didn't kill him whilst he was an unaware squishy human.
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Trooper1023
Look, sir! Droids!
- Location
- NYC USA
QM, how does Ring Bing interact with various forms of intangibility? Frost Beam?
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
Well I must admit that was a bit demoralizing seeing your plan fail like that.
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
Ring Bind would slip through his limbs. Frost Beam would cost his teeth/claws in ice and maybe - MAYBE - stick the first dog you caught to the ground.
- Location
- Ural, Russia, Earth
I planning to point at bank robbery, where Vista distorted space so hard that back door became front door, but I reread this scene and nope, it's fanon. There is still this moment:
Well...Agitation 3.10 said:
Thank you for not killing Vista, SW!
Her arm, well, PRT has Bonesaw so...
I voted for patrolling with Miss Militia, and she probably has foam grenades, but nooo, Vista is cute, let's choose Vista...
Sorry.
What about this spell? Can we use it to hang him by his teeth/claws?
Probably no.
EDIT: and answer is YES!
[X] Telekinesis
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Well, poor Vista, I guess the bandwagon had too much momentum for people to remember picking up Vista, not that I remembered it either. :-(
We can't currently train anything offensively that would help in actually defeating Cadejo, or add all that much in general, so I'm voting for more mobility, at the very least being able to teleport would have helped saving Vista.
With luck progressing in the Void tree might offer up an option to affect intangibly things, perhaps we can modify one of our current attacks, or later on be able to use teleportation offensively to remove stuff in an area as a ranged attack, which might work against intangible beings, or at the very least declaw Cadejo's dogs..
[X] Spatial Translocation
We can't currently train anything offensively that would help in actually defeating Cadejo, or add all that much in general, so I'm voting for more mobility, at the very least being able to teleport would have helped saving Vista.
With luck progressing in the Void tree might offer up an option to affect intangibly things, perhaps we can modify one of our current attacks, or later on be able to use teleportation offensively to remove stuff in an area as a ranged attack, which might work against intangible beings, or at the very least declaw Cadejo's dogs..
[X] Spatial Translocation
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I voted for patrolling with Miss Militia, and she probably has foam grenades, but nooo, Vista is cute, let's choose Vista...
Foam Grenades wouldn't have done anything to help the situation, and we would've possibly ended up with the same situation regardless of who we chose to go with us - except for Dragon, but Dragon is bullshit - and if we chose to fight in a similar manner to this.
See here:
Silently Watches said:
So really, we just barely lost the best possible outcome of this situation, and it was due to a lack of specifications in our vote. It happens.
And people like Vista more than MM, so...*shrug*
...Damn, Dragon's prolly gonna feel super guilty. I mean, we're only out on this patrol because of her reluctance to actually believe that we're not a parahuman after all.
- Location
- Ural, Russia, Earth
His teeth and claws are not intangible. I think foam sticks to them and traps the beast.
Also, Miss Militia is smart enough to call retreat and not fight invulnerable enemy.
We should point her that it's not her fault. We would have attacked him in any case, not because she wanted to see our magic.
What if you Ring Bind the upper and lower jaws...teeths...whatever?
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
It explicitly says 'teeth', not 'jaws', so I think your plan to muzzle this mad dog won't quite work out.
Maybe binding the claws together like a hunter bringing back a dead deer?
You say you can't bind teeth, but some how claws are possible? At least the teeth are all grouped up together in a large enough number to really effect, moreso than a claw on four ethereal digits of one of four ethereal limbs.
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
Actually, yes, that would affect him.
I hadn't considered using Ring Bind to pin teeth or claws together, but it very well could work.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
I want you to try something at home: how hard is it for you to hold your teeth, all of your teeth, at once, vs all the fingers on a hand or toes on your feet?
I think you'll find the latter much easier to bind together and manipulate. And dog-boy can't hurt people if he can't get to them, so eliminating his mobility makes him all bark, no bite.
But it would only work so long as the spell is maintained. The PRT would have to have a cell/transport strong enough to withstand his 'unnaturally sharp' pack's teeth and claws once we grab him, otherwise we just wasted our secret strategy.