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Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

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FictionPack said:
While it is cool, it is sadly not as cool as a khopesh.
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I dunno, Khopsh doesn't seem as cool as a falcata to me, but that might be because the khopesh just doesn't look like a reasonable weapon, the big curve just doesn't look right. (Which is kind of supported by straight edged iron and steel weapons out performing bronze khopesh in most fields)
 
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ReaperofInterest said:
So, does getting Missy the Guardian Beast spell for one of her first four sound like a decent idea? It would give the team another member, provide her a companion she could rely on, and depending on what we get the team might gain something we don't already have.
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That was on my second attempt at a list of four spells, before we behaved like caffeinated squirrels... err, before SW separated this into several votes


Valdimarian said:
I dunno, Khopsh doesn't seem as cool as a falcata to me, but that might be because the khopesh just doesn't look like a reasonable weapon to me. The big curve just doesn't look right to me.
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The curve common to a lot of blades comes from a combination of how curves affect cutting surfaces and the way that a curved blade tends to be stronger than a straight one made from the same metals. Amusingly enough, the best swords in the world were born from smiths working with truly terrible quality metals, where they had to come up with ways to make the blades stronger to compensate. Applying those techniques to better quality materials later on gave us the better swords.

Necessity may be the mother of invention, but desperation is often the father.
 
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Wyrd said:
The curve common to a lot of blades comes from a combination of how curves affect cutting surfaces and the way that a curved blade tends to be stronger than a straight one made from the same metals. Amusingly enough, the best swords in the world were born from smiths working with truly terrible quality metals, where they had to come up with ways to make the blades stronger to compensate. Applying those techniques to better quality materials later on gave us the better swords.
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Eh, katanas aren't bad, but part of their appeal is the romanticization from Japanese culture / anime. The reason for the khopesh's curve is very different from the scimitar or katana in that it curves forward and is meant to smash like an axe more than cut, hence why the blade extends further forward than the haft. The falcata is a similar idea but with a wider sharpened haft, a less pronounced forward curve, loses the recurve, and made from improved materials (high quality iron or early steel).

Wyrd said:
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but desperation is often the father.
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I dunno, desperation and necessity are synonyms, I find laziness to be the father a more apt version.
 
Valdimarian said:
I dunno, Khopsh doesn't seem as cool as a falcata to me, but that might be because the khopesh just doesn't look like a reasonable weapon, the big curve just doesn't look right. (Which is kind of supported by straight edged iron and steel weapons out performing bronze khopesh in most fields)
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Steel weapons are going to outperform bronze weapons, full stop. They're lighter, hold edges better, and can take more abuse. It is simply a superior material from which to make weapons. Trying to compare Weapon A made from steel and Weapon B made from bronze and saying the results prove the design of A is inherently superior is disingenuous at best.

Probably the bigger reason why most swords are straight-ish is that they are easier to produce. They also work better for stabbing, which is handy when you're trying to punch through or around armor. The khopesh is a hacking weapon, which means it would be far less effective against something like, say, a Roman centurion's cuirass.

It's worth noting, however, that throughout history axes in general have been very effective weapons, existing alongside swords up to the widespread adoption of firearms. So I wouldn't say that a khopesh made out of modern materials would be ineffective. Hell, made out of bronze it sure seemed to kill people just fine if its widespread use by the Egyptian empire is any indication.
 
Silently Watches said:
Steel weapons are going to outperform bronze weapons, full stop. They're lighter, hold edges better, and can take more abuse. It is simply a superior material from which to make weapons. Trying to compare Weapon A made from steel and Weapon B made from bronze and saying the results prove the design of A is inherently superior is disingenuous at best.
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I agree, but while fulfilling the same or similar role (sword with forward hacking edge) there's probably a reason why the culture with access to iron / steel (the iberians, which IIRC were ancient spaniards) decided to drop the curve into just a forward swoop instead of extending that much further.
 
Silently Watches said:
Steel weapons are going to outperform bronze weapons, full stop. They're lighter, hold edges better, and can take more abuse. It is simply a superior material from which to make weapons. Trying to compare Weapon A made from steel and Weapon B made from bronze and saying the results prove the design of A is inherently superior is disingenuous at best.

Probably the bigger reason why most swords are straight-ish is that they are easier to produce. They also work better for stabbing, which is handy when you're trying to punch through or around armor. The khopesh is a hacking weapon, which means it would be far less effective against something like, say, a Roman centurion's cuirass.

It's worth noting, however, that throughout history axes in general have been very effective weapons, existing alongside swords up to the widespread adoption of firearms. So I wouldn't say that a khopesh made out of modern materials would be ineffective. Hell, made out of bronze it sure seemed to kill people just fine if its widespread use by the Egyptian empire is any indication.
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Putting on my fencer hat for a moment to supplement this; straight weapons have a lower moment of inertia than weapons like curved swords or axes that move mass further away from the center axis of the weapon. This makes them quicker in the hand, more agile than a weapon of the same mass designed differently. This is especially crucial for defense. (Of great importance if a given weapon isn't intended to be used with a shield.)

On the other hand weapons with mass further out (like axes or maces or certain kinds of swords that widen toward the end) hit with more force, making them great for chopping through limbs or damaging shields. Other weapons have different reasons for a curve, like the curve of a cavalry saber to make it less likely to get stuck when stabbing someone during a mounted charge. Curves also make it easier to keep the blade in contact with the target longer for more cutting. Straight bladed weapons have a tendency to skip because the ergonomics are less favorable. Scimitars and katanas have curves for this reason, as weapons focused on cutting with the edge of the blade with the point as a secondary option.
 
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Valdimarian said:
I agree, but while fulfilling the same or similar role (sword with forward hacking edge) there's probably a reason why the culture with access to iron / steel (the iberians, which IIRC were ancient spaniards) decided to drop the curve into just a forward swoop instead of extending that much further.
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Because the Iberians and the Egyptians designed their own weapons independently? That would be the most logical explanation. The Iberians didn't redesign the khopesh into the falcata; they just didn't adopt Egyptian design in the first place because they had their own design that worked perfectly fine on its own. Hell, I have to wonder how much access the Iberians even had to the Egyptian design in the first place.

EDIT: Not to mention, if we wanted to pick the weapon on this list that does the best job cutting, neither the falcata nor the khopesh is it. That would go to the literal laser sword.
 
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*nod* like i mentioned earlier in the thread, a Khopesh is basically a axe. It evolved from axes and has the same basic use and attack patterns. Its center is forward of the grip and very high, making it a powerful hacking weapon but not so good on the followthrough needed for good cutting (or changing the direction of your swing). IIRC real world Khopeshes had a almost dull point and were nearly useless for stabbing as well, because they didnt use it for stabbing. Who stabs with a axe? Not the Egyptians.

Other cultures didnt use the Khopesh largely because making iron curve like that is much more difficult, and a axe with a reinforced half was literally the same thing for a much lower skill investment. Blades like the falcata look similar to the Khopesh, but they are not its practical or spiritual successors. They didnt 'drop the curve'. They are entirely different weapons used entirely different ways (being powerful slashing swords) that just so happens to look not unlike a ancient axe-sword.




*edit;

That said, id suggest giving Missy something more like a 'modern' khopesh. With the sharp point and downward hook. Its been a few thousand years and we are not exactly going for a period piece here.
 
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Silently Watches said:
I know this was a typo, but now I have the mental image of Missy dropping actual streets on top of people. Then Taylor calls her in a huff because part of the city is missing. Again.
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Would the street be sentient? And if so, is its name Danny? 🤣

Edit:

[X] (Device) Calico Laughing

[X] Khopesh or Egyptian sickle-sword
 
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[X] (Device) Scenic View

[X] Lightsaber

Just because I doubt Missy would have any reason to go for an ancient Egyptian weapon when she could have a lightsaber.
And a lightsaber would probably be easier to make nonlethal too, if the variable settings of the old EU are used.
Not to mention variable lengths.
 
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Obliviated fan said:
Just because I doubt Missy would have any reason to go for an ancient Egyptian weapon when she could have a lightsaber.
And a lightsaber would probably be easier to make nonlethal too, if the variable settings of the old EU are used.
Not to mention variable lengths.
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One length, a little on the shorter side since Missy is 1) short and 2) flighting like a ninja. Two settings: a blunt mode for bludgeoning and a sharp mode for cutting.

The major downside with the lightsaber, because no option is perfect, is that hardlight blades don't really take spells all that well. That means no weapon-enhancing spells (hey, free spell slot!), but it also means no guarantee of being nonlethal. Turn on sharp mode, and it's going to cut whatever you hit with it, be it doors or walls or arms.
 
Silently Watches said:
One length, a little on the shorter side since Missy is 1) short and 2) flighting like a ninja. Two settings: a blunt mode for bludgeoning and a sharp mode for cutting.

The major downside with the lightsaber, because no option is perfect, is that hardlight blades don't really take spells all that well. That means no weapon-enhancing spells (hey, free spell slot!), but it also means no guarantee of being nonlethal. Turn on sharp mode, and it's going to cut whatever you hit with it, be it doors or walls or arms.
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Good info, thanks. I'm standing by my choice though, since I suspect Missy would too. :p
 
[X] (Device) Calico Laughing

[X] Khopesh or Egyptian sickle-sword

did a bit of re-reading i just got reminded that animos has now died 2 times in this quest so far clearly we need to hunt down whatever dastardly villain brought him back to life ;)
 
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Hey, I just realized and reread the section where Tim mentions Mechshift weapons. (9.7) While Missy doesn't need it, could we build our resident gun nut a sword-gun?
 
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