Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

What sort of tone should I shoot for with this Quest?

  • Go as crack fueled as you can we want Ambush Bug, Snowflame and Duckseid

    Votes: 30 7.7%
  • Go for something silly but keep a little bit of reason

    Votes: 31 7.9%
  • Adam West Camp

    Votes: 27 6.9%
  • Balanced as all things should be

    Votes: 195 50.0%
  • Mostly serious but not self-involvedly so

    Votes: 73 18.7%
  • Dark and brooding but with light at the end of the tunnel

    Votes: 12 3.1%
  • We're evil and we don't want anyone to be happy

    Votes: 22 5.6%

  • Total voters
    390
  • Poll closed .
So far next turn is looking really rough for Diplomacy. Oswald is going to be busy with the music stuff with Shiobhan
He is? I was kind of in favor of putting him on Cassandra social since she is so eager to be out and about. Either meeting one of the friends actions or a debutes. We could use Lucy instead, but even then I'd just attach him to Lexpo.
Starfire with Cassandra on a child action next turn (though that might change)
I'd say she is more likely on stewardship.
So we only really have Lucy, Pamela, Marie, Lex, and Lana to spread over the following actions:
Not necessarily. We have a minimum 3 doctors, likely more. Odds are we grab at least one with a knack for diplomacy. We also have an actors subvotes, with a decent chance of at least one becoming a full employ, and Daphne Dean signing on as Director. Odds are high for at least two with decent or better diplomacy. You've also forgotten lance and Talia.
1) Hiring magic users (IMO we should put Lex and Marie on this with a double down so that Marie can get that trait)
That's about a +70 to rolls when applying marie's coop with Lex. We've had two double down actions this turn which fell short of 30, so I'd put Lance as a third hero at minimum, though frankly while recruitment was a part of each action so was expansion. There is enough of a difference in the nature of the actions that I'm not sure it would earn Marry a trait, especially with the high ceiling of success inherent in recruitment actions.
Results: recruited 825 doctors, Recruit Doctors subvote
As we see here that Lucy and Paige, who despite all their success, have earned not a single point increase in diplomacy. Recruitment actions just aren't mechanically designed for trait development or stat increases. We can certainly try it, but it's likely we'll instead need to put her on an expansion action to get her trait.

If your set on guaranteeing her trait this turn, the better thing to do is to assign Lex, Felicity and Marie to expand future construction and come back to recruit occultists turn 33. Expanding a different company may work as well, and Ferris Aerospace and Lexcorp are fine alternative candidates.
2) Meeting with Amy (We 100% need to follow up on her)
I'm pretty sure this will be an auto success action as a result of our finding her and facilitating her reunion with her family. Honestly, given we have seen how one Lord of order might Entrust earth and the larger galaxy to Lex, I could see Amy choosing to meet Lex herself to come to an arrangement for him to look after her father. Best to send someone well intentioned and relatively decent, so Lana.
3) Lexpo (For hiring, for clout, as distraction, for Cassandra to mingle, to make some political moves against rivals and to gather info on them etc)
I'm not sure Cassandra can mingle unless we debut her, and @King crimson may rule she has to be debuted at least one turn prior to Lexpo to attend it.
4) Create a Superhero team (this one is important and would probably justify a double down regardless)
I'm not so sure we can say with confidence where we'll want double down until we see our actions as a whole. If we take the Cass special advanced mathematics action I could see that supplanting this in importance, particularly with Carol and Roxy's Nat 1 in recent memory. Voters may also be sufficiently fed up with repair metropolis's slow crawl to apply double down, or put it on zeta stations depending on the team we assign. There is also a chance people opt in favor of continuing to sabotage STAR Labs, this time with a double down and stronger team.

Honestly it would be best if we pulled Roxy and Carol of Martial and has them work together for this one. Carol being a major part of the teams actual formation will have symbolic significance, with Roxy as social lubricant to keep things headed in the right direction.
Honestly, we might need to bring Leslie off of Intrigue next turn and team her up with Lisa to keep up with the demand. They can handle the Lexpo.
Having these two handle the Lexpo is a little foolish. Leslie is provocative and Irritating, and Lisa is a professional clout chaser. neither of them understands science even if Leslie understands showmanship.

A significantly better team would be Pamela and Talia. Pamela knows the science and is familiar with enough of the staff from her long years at Lexcorp, while also being a veteran at pitching renewable energy to uncaring politicians. Talia has numerous international connections she can lean on to track incoming spies, and is well suited to arrange security. Both have a personal stake in nature conservation and will do their absolute best to sell the cold engine as highly preferable alternative to power sources like coal, gasoline, radiation which can be harmful to the planet. Talia's own stake in the preservation of the planet will make it highly likely she joins the action. Together they'll have about + 44, though we may incorporate an Oswald or an actor as the third member of the team for the sake presentation.
I hope that the superheroes that we hire will have good Diplomacy since I can imagine them to be willing to campaign for our new team and it will take a load off of us. If this works well then we can free Pamela, and if we recruit a good team for Karl (and maybe one guy for Moon if we're really lucky), then we can have her tackle the Gingo fruit with Caitlin.
I doubt we'll be able to use them in this fashion. None of them will be full hero units after all, and some may be independent minded and need to be convinced to join. That said, once the team exists, taking an auto success/roll to see how effective action involving them giving something there support as a team. .
On the other hand, next turn seems to be low Intrigue so unless anything comes up we can look for Enoch Brown (unless we got him from the doctor action which imo is unlikely)
I'm in favor of a Leslie lead push against stars labs with a stronger team and potential double down. It makes sense to keep up the pressure. Otherwise I may pair her up with Soibhan for a force based Brainiac tech collection action. Send Leslie to infiltrate some criminal organization collecting the tech, have Soibhan bust the front door down and round up the criminals alongside some Lexcorp security.

Also, Enoch is an old man approaching the end of his life, who we need to convince to trust Lexcorp with his work and come back out of retirement. It would need a more diplomacy capable intrigue team than we will be free to spare this turn.
 
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He is? I was kind of in favor of putting him on Cassandra social since she is so eager to be out and about. Either meeting one of the friends actions or a debutes. We could use Lucy instead, but even then I'd just attach him to Lexpo.

Honestly, I don't think that Cassandra's thing is a matter of socialization as much as it is that she wants to go around and do stuff. Keep in mind that Cassandra is no longer a child (she's a teenager) so Oswald won't be rolling with a 39 Diplomacy like he did on turn 26.

Plus, weren't we planning on doing the musical production stuff for Siobhan? This is kind of a big deal....

I'd say she is more likely on stewardship.

This is actually a so-so. There aren't really enough Learning to go around to help Casandra nail a big action, and gameplay-wise teams of two are preferable to teams of 3 whenever possible. I'd rather stick her on the military strategy and tactics action with Cassandra right now since the timing aligns for that significantly better than any other time in the near future.

Again though, it's far too early to say that for sure.

Not necessarily. We have a minimum 3 doctors, likely more. Odds are we grab at least one with a knack for diplomacy. We also have an actors subvotes, with a decent chance of at least one becoming a full employ, and Daphne Dean signing on as Director. Odds are high for at least two with decent or better diplomacy. You've also forgotten lance and Talia.

What you are saying is not impossible, though Talia is a bit of a wild card so I don't overly rely on her in assumptions unless it's for intrigue stuff. Diplomacy and marketing aren't her specialties by any means, she can do it but she far likelier to believe that her talents are better used elsewhere.

I was hoping for one of the Doctors to have good Stewardship so that they can help build us a hospital if we ever wanted to go through with it, but this is far too early to say one way or the other.

That's about a +70 to rolls when applying marie's coop with Lex. We've had two double down actions this turn which fell short of 30, so I'd put Lance as a third hero at minimum, though frankly while recruitment was a part of each action so was expansion. There is enough of a difference in the nature of the actions that I'm not sure it would earn Marry a trait, especially with the high ceiling of success inherent in recruitment actions.

As we see here that Lucy and Paige, who despite all their success, have earned not a single point increase in diplomacy. Recruitment actions just aren't mechanically designed for trait development or stat increases. We can certainly try it, but it's likely we'll instead need to put her on an expansion action to get her trait.

We can put Lance (and maybe we should), but that's not how probability works (rolls are independent and thus past successes or failures don't say anything.).
I am fairly confident that with a double down we can get at least at one reroll, and we have decent odds to get two so I'm fine with it.

At any rate, I don't think that your example means that she can't get a trait off of this action. She did get closer to one from hiring a bunch of war veterans, and it's very easy to argue that both Lucy and Paige are not as close as she is in developing a trait for this sort of stuff (We used Marie on quite a few recruitment/expansion actions historically, the most recent of which is Future Construction).

I'm pretty sure this will be an auto success action as a result of our finding her and facilitating her reunion with her family. Honestly, given we have seen how one Lord of order might Entrust earth and the larger galaxy to Lex, I could see Amy choosing to meet Lex herself to come to an arrangement for him to look after her father. Best to send someone well intentioned and relatively decent, so Lana.

Honestly I'm not sure if I want to assume an auto-success. It can very easily be argued that she "wants to spend time with her family" and thus isn't as available as she could be, though I can see how we would get a priority to meet her since we were the ones who returned her home and her dad would help us in setting this up. I think that there will be a DC for this action, but that it will be fairly low (up to 20 at most, possibly far less).

Lana and Lucy can probably cover that, yeah.

I'm not sure Cassandra can mingle unless we debut her, and @King crimson may rule she has to be debuted at least one turn prior to Lexpo to attend it.

The idea of debuting her is that we control the narrative around her. We can have her go to the event (which should be a closed event with a fairly limited guest list) and pretend to be a worker's daughter or something. Starfire can accompany her

Keep in mind that Cassandra did attend the previous Lexpo and did talk to at least Diana so that doesn't seem to be a limiting factor.

I'm not so sure we can say with confidence where we'll want double down until we see our actions as a whole. If we take the Cass special advanced mathematics action I could see that supplanting this in importance, particularly with Carol and Roxy's Nat 1 in recent memory. Voters may also be sufficiently fed up with repair metropolis's slow crawl to apply double down, or put it on zeta stations depending on the team we assign. There is also a chance people opt in favor of continuing to sabotage STAR Labs, this time with a double down and stronger team.

We can't say anything with confidence, strictly speaking, but with all things being equal, debuting our team to wide success is important enough to justify a double-down. If it's important enough to be a priority above other potential issues, I couldn't say.

Honestly it would be best if we pulled Roxy and Carol of Martial and has them work together for this one. Carol being a major part of the teams actual formation will have symbolic significance, with Roxy as social lubricant to keep things headed in the right direction.

Their Diplomacy is too low for that IMO.

Having these two handle the Lexpo is a little foolish. Leslie is provocative and Irritating, and Lisa is a professional clout chaser. neither of them understands science even if Leslie understands showmanship.

I don't agree. I think that it's well within their prowess to organize an event successfully since Leslie is actually fairly good with this sort of stuff and has organized events in the past (her rallies, the debate with Lois and Clark etc) and Lisa would view this as a feather in her cap and be afraid enough to mess this up to do anything truly stupid.

A significantly better team would be Pamela and Talia. Pamela knows the science and is familiar with enough of the staff from her long years at Lexcorp, while also being a veteran at pitching renewable energy to uncaring politicians. Talia has numerous international connections she can lean on to track incoming spies, and is well suited to arrange security. Both have a personal stake in nature conservation and will do their absolute best to sell the cold engine as highly preferable alternative to power sources like coal, gasoline, radiation which can be harmful to the planet. Talia's own stake in the preservation of the planet will make it highly likely she joins the action. Together they'll have about + 44, though we may incorporate an Oswald or an actor as the third member of the team for the sake presentation.

I don't really buy this.

For one thing, we can't reasonably assume that Talia will take this action (since this isn't her expertise), and for another I don't think that Pamela has any particular advantages in organizing events aside from knowing people in the scientific community (which she isn't really involved in) and her obviously higher Diplomacy.

Even if it does work, a Pamela + Talia team isn't so significantly better than a Lisa + Leslie team to where it can justify putting such high-impact units here relative to the more expandable Lisa and about as expandable Leslie.

Pamela is probably better served elsewhere depending on our resources. I think that a best-case scenario is that she finally starts tackling the Gingo fruit stuff which we have been delaying for way, way too long.

I doubt we'll be able to use them in this fashion. None of them will be full hero units after all, and some may be independent minded and need to be convinced to join. That said, once the team exists, taking an auto success/roll to see how effective action involving them giving something there support as a team.

We'll need to see how the recruitment works out and who we grab, but as a general room of thumb being socialable and charismatic is a very valuable trait for us when all things are equal i.e if there are 2 heroes with roughly the same power level (for example, Flash and Guy Gardner) then we should go for the charismatic and sociable one with all else being equal. I'd even go as far as to say that I'd prefer a sociable but somewhat weaker hero vs an "independent" but stronger one (coops are a bigger power multiplier than raw stats, and the sociable heroes are both more marketable and somewhat easier to control)

At any rate, this was just a speculation and we can't say or know anything for sure here.

I'm in favor of a Leslie lead push against stars labs with a stronger team and potential double down. It makes sense to keep up the pressure. Otherwise I may pair her up with Soibhan for a force based Brainiac tech collection action. Send Leslie to infiltrate some criminal organization collecting the tech, have Soibhan bust the front door down and round up the criminals alongside some Lexcorp security.

We'll probably need to assess the damage on S.T.A.R labs to understand how far off we are from a buyout, but we probably aren't ready to take them down completely in the next few turns (i.e free an Intrigue team for sabotage efforts + a stewardship team for a massive buyout thereafter) so we shouldn't really rush this

Grabbing Brainiac tech by force from criminals is certainly viable though, but I can't imagine that a lot of people will be happy with us if we just took it for ourselves rather than handing it over to the authorities. We'll need to see though, it's far too early to make any absolute judgments.

Also, Enoch is an old man approaching the end of his life, who we need to convince to trust Lexcorp with his work and come back out of retirement. It would need a more diplomacy capable intrigue team than we will be free to spare this turn.

I'm not really amazingly big on him myself but other players really wanted the guy, so now is honestly as good a time as any. As far as I understand though, Enoch Brown is roughly in the same boat as Louise in that he made some really brilliant work but had others shun him for stupid reasons. IMO the validation aspect of things is important and should be enough to convince him if we make some concessions for him, but I'm not really amazingly familiar with the character.

I do know that he has an amazing growth formula that can also give humans physical superhuman abilities and really improve our agricultural efforts, which is just inherently valuable, and that he is supposed to be a really good geneticist. I can easily see an argument for this being the equivalent of spreading things too thin though.

I think that this action is more about finding him and doing a general background check for him and not approaching him outright. As I said, I'm not amazingly big on him but the thread really wanted the guy for a while and right now is a very good opportunity for it so I thought I should at least bring it up.
 
Honestly, I don't think that Cassandra's thing is a matter of socialization as much as it is that she wants to go around and do stuff. Keep in mind that Cassandra is no longer a child (she's a teenager) so Oswald won't be rolling with a 39 Diplomacy like he did on turn 26.
Child is under 16, especially for this quest. Helena's child based diplomacy trait still activates for Raven, which was part of the reason we wanted her on the Leyline investigation in turn 29. It should 100% activate, but we can confirm with @King crimson.
Plus, weren't we planning on doing the musical production stuff for Siobhan? This is kind of a big deal....
We were planning on doing it, but depending on the actors vote we may have a suitable alternative person to put with Soibhan and need Oswald somewhere else. Until we see what we are getting in terms of new hero phase assignable characters, I'm not commiting on Oswald.
This is actually a so-so. There aren't really enough Learning to go around to help Casandra nail a big action, and gameplay-wise teams of two are preferable to teams of 3 whenever possible. I'd rather stick her on the military strategy and tactics action with Cassandra right now since the timing aligns for that significantly better than any other time in the near future.
There are totally enough learning, particularly if we drop Brainiac action this turn. All of the doctors will have some learning, likely more than Moon in most of the available options.

That said, I don't mind putting it off given our plans for Raven this turn.
What you are saying is not impossible, though Talia is a bit of a wild card so I don't overly rely on her in assumptions unless it's for intrigue stuff. Diplomacy and marketing aren't her specialties by any means, she can do it but she far likelier to believe that her talents are better used elsewhere.
That doesn't really matter as long as we pair her with the right compensating partner. Pamela for instance is a natural at selling things and understands how to break down scientific Jargon from her projects to educate children on nature conservation.
An experienced actor could bring the presentation. The first Lexpo suffered holes in security from just Oswald being assigned, which Talia can better address and anticipate, and her connections abroad may allow her to see outside threats coming other, more isolated within Lexcorp heroes might miss.
At any rate, I don't think that your example means that she can't get a trait off of this action. She did get closer to one from hiring a bunch of war veterans, and it's very easy to argue that both Lucy and Paige are not as close as she is in developing a trait for this sort of stuff (We used Marie on quite a few recruitment/expansion actions historically, the most recent of which is Future Construction).
Yes, because she hired them into future foundation as construction workers, likely through advertising in the right circles. Recruiting Occultists isn't going to be the same. We are talking about tracking down singular figures likely residing in relative seclusion and making individual pitches that appeal to what we Intuit about there desires. In reality most of the points that make it feasible for Marie to develop a trait likely came from her advertise future construction the previous turn and this turn probably just got her into striking range.

Their Diplomacy is too low for that IMO.
Not really. It's a zero DC action. If it's getting a double down it has a solid shot of at least 20, which is an amazing success, and more than good enough for me. If it's really important enough for a stronger team, than it can wait for turn 33 which will be less focused on diplomacy and
For one thing, we can't reasonably assume that Talia will take this action (since this isn't her expertise), and for another I don't think that Pamela has any particular advantages in organizing events aside from knowing people in the scientific community (which she isn't really involved in) and her obviously higher Diplomacy.
Talia's coop with Pamela is built on their mutual personal investment in the preservation of earths natural environments. The cold engine, as an opportunity to replace environment damaging fuel based energy sources and the mining operations that collect said fuels, is a victory for that cause, and thus something Talia will certainly numerous environmental issues will be sold as viable and worth the to various leaders and companies across the planet Talia will certainly be more invested in it than she had a reason to be invested either of her previous assignments. .
and for another I don't think that Pamela has any particular advantages in organizing events aside from knowing people in the scientific community (which she isn't really involved in) and her obviously higher Diplomacy
Umm, her years as a Politician organizing debates and preparing proposals and attending support nature conservation Rally's? Honestly between her political experience, understanding of the science involved, she's honestly better off than oswald would be.

Even if it does work, a Pamela + Talia team isn't so significantly better than a Lisa + Leslie team to where it can justify putting such high-impact units here relative to the more expandable Lisa and about as expandable Leslie.
Narratively, as two characters with greater personal investment in the outcome, rather than just considering it a Job, and with actual scientific knowledge, political acumen, and the know how to set up proper security and anti infiltration measures, Pamela and Talia are hands down better than Leslie's experience in organizing hostile events and protests and Lisa's willingness to toe the line and follow Lisa's lead.

Frankly, it's high disturbing that you brought up how expendable Leslie and Lisa are, because it has some fairly negative connotations that your putting the spare heroes on this. The last resort heroes. Lexpo is frankly bigger than anything other than Occultists. The first one went wrong for us, and this would be an event intended to impress brilliant minds, powerful leaders, and promising recruits, and you want to put the rude, irritating, opinionated and confrontational Livewire in charge of it?
Pamela is probably better served elsewhere depending on our resources. I think that a best-case scenario is that she finally starts tackling the Gingo fruit stuff which we have been delaying for way, way too long.
If I'm not putting Pamela on any of these diplomacy actions then I'm probably going to attach her to the bones serum action, possibly with Caitlin as well for a particularly strong team. Bone serum is at worst a very strong success and second smaller one from being Ready to use on Karl, which is important so we can get the work done while he is mentally stable.

No matter who we put on gringo it's going to be a few turns, likely more, before we have anything we trust enough to put in a hero unit. Unlike most of the actions we could assign Pamela too this is a throwaway one. We can put the doctors on it.
 
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Child is under 16, especially for this quest. Helena's child based diplomacy trait still activates for Raven, which was part of the reason we wanted her on the Leyline investigation in turn 29. It should 100% activate, but we can confirm with @King crimson.

I'm pretty sure that child is anything below 13 mechanically (children get a debuff for taking child actions by themselves while teens don't) but we will need to see.

We were planning on doing it, but depending on the actors vote we may have a suitable alternative person to put with Soibhan and need Oswald somewhere else. Until we see what we are getting in terms of new hero phase assignable characters, I'm not commiting on Oswald.

There's no reason to be particular about Oswad obviously, but assuming that we will get a suitable replacement isn't really good either.

There are totally enough learning, particularly if we drop Brainiac action this turn. All of the doctors will have some learning, likely more than Moon in most of the available options.

That said, I don't mind putting it off given our plans for Raven this turn.

It's more about having enough Learning + good coops with Cassandra + otherwise expandable, which shrinks the list a fair bit. We'll need to see how things go, but off the top of my head there's only really Meena. Again, it's way too early to say but even regardless I'd like to have Starfire and Cassandra potentially max out their coop since it would make Starfire an amazing Diplomacy/Stewardship partner for Cassandra later down the line (especially if we push both to 25 for her), on top of the strategy action being a really good one with high chances to succeed in and of itself.

That doesn't really matter as long as we pair her with the right compensating partner. Pamela for instance is a natural at selling things and understands how to break down scientific Jargon from her projects to educate children on nature conservation.
An experienced actor could bring the presentation. The first Lexpo suffered holes in security from just Oswald being assigned, which Talia can better address and anticipate, and her connections abroad may allow her to see outside threats coming other, more isolated within Lexcorp heroes might miss.

The first Lexpo had Roxanne assigned to it as well, the security issues aren't really from that.

I don't think that you need to be scientifically capable to be able to organize a science event, nor do I think that it's a factor. It's kind of like the idea that you don't need to be a programmer to run a software company.

Yes, because she hired them into future foundation as construction workers, likely through advertising in the right circles. Recruiting Occultists isn't going to be the same. We are talking about tracking down singular figures likely residing in relative seclusion and making individual pitches that appeal to what we Intuit about there desires. In reality most of the points that make it feasible for Marie to develop a trait likely came from her advertise future construction the previous turn and this turn probably just got her into striking range.

The future construction action pushed her closer obviously, but recruiting more occultists and practitioners is going to be doing the same, though it might depend on if we recruit only specific people or if we get extras (like with the doctors) that will serve as a general DC reduction. Keep in mind that we have an entire department of magic users so I wouldn't necessarily bet on it just being about recruiting specific people as much as expanding our paranormal department in general.

Not really. It's a zero DC action. If it's getting a double down it has a solid shot of at least 20, which is an amazing success, and more than good enough for me. If it's really important enough for a stronger team, than it can wait for turn 33 which will be less focused on diplomacy

It is important for a stronger team but it also can't really wait either. (We want to be the first new public U.S. superhero team, in response to China's great ten, and there are already plans for other teams to emerge)

Talia's coop with Pamela is built on their mutual personal investment in the preservation of earths natural environments. The cold engine, as an opportunity to replace environment damaging fuel based energy sources and the mining operations that collect said fuels, is a victory for that cause, and thus something Talia will certainly numerous environmental issues will be sold as viable and worth the to various leaders and companies across the planet Talia will certainly be more invested in it than she had a reason to be invested either of her previous assignments.

This read out to me as irrelevant. Talia will choose the actions that she thinks she is best suited for, and this not likely to be it to the point where I'd assume it (unlike our previous actions with her). It is possible of course, just pretty far from a sure thing.

I imagine that Pamela will be passionate about this, but she doesn't have a viable team-up on the action that is so good that we can afford to pull them from something else (as well as Pamela herself, honestly)

Umm, her years as a Politician organizing debates and preparing proposals and attending support nature conservation Rally's? Honestly between her political experience, understanding of the science involved, she's honestly better off than oswald would be.

Nah, not good enough.

Narratively, as two characters with greater personal investment in the outcome, rather than just considering it a Job, and with actual scientific knowledge, political acumen, and the know how to set up proper security and anti infiltration measures, Pamela and Talia are hands down better than Leslie's experience in organizing hostile events and protests and Lisa's willingness to toe the line and follow Lisa's lead.

This doesn't really address my points about Talia's placement or Pamela's personal scientific ability being relevant.

Yes, Talia will likely be able to put up better security measures, but the other stuff about Pamela (political acumen, which we don't care about in event organization, and scientific knowledge, which will not reflect in organizing an event, which is more of a marketing/logistics thing) is not really relevant.

I don't really understand the distinction "hostile events" and what that term is supposed to mean or how it's relevant to anything.

Frankly, it's high disturbing that you brought up how expendable Leslie and Lisa are, because it has some fairly negative connotations that your putting the spare heroes on this. The last resort heroes. Lexpo is frankly bigger than anything other than Occultists. The first one went wrong for us, and this would be an event intended to impress brilliant minds, powerful leaders, and promising recruits, and you want to put the rude, irritating, opinionated and confrontational Livewire in charge of it?

I'm honestly fine with it, yeah. I can trust her to organize the event and send invites, market the whole thing, and maybe manage a contest related to it or something, yeah. it's not like she's front and center stage or anything - Oswald and Roxanne were mostly in the background of the previous Lexpo.

They aren't the best team-up by any means obviously, but they are good enough to the point where I'd be fine with them. Obviously we will need to see how the other stuff pans out. For all we know the Lightyear expansion will allow us to create a music company outright.

We don't need an absolutely amazing, multi-hundred score on this either since we have relatively specific goals in mind that don't likely require a super high roll.

If I'm not putting Pamela on any of these diplomacy actions then I'm probably going to attach her to the bones serum action, possibly with Caitlin as well for a particularly strong team. Bone serum is at worst a very strong success and second smaller one from being Ready to use on Karl, which is important so we can get the work done while he is mentally stable.

That's too much focus on the bone serum probably and Pamela's impact on the reward list won't be as good as in other places.

No matter who we put on gringo it's going to be a few turns, likely more, before we have anything we trust enough to put in a hero unit. Unlike most of the actions we could assign Pamela too this is a throwaway one. We can put the doctors on it.

That is somewhat true, but it is also true that we need to multitask stuff and try to do things in parallel rather than wait for one thing to end and for another to begin otherwise we will never get anything done.

If the Bone serum is another 3 turns and the Gingo fruit stuff is another 3 turns, then it will be 6 but if we do things in parallel it will be 3. We can't be focusing all of our resources on one thing at a time.

As I said though, it would depend on the kind of help that we get this turn. IMO it's a best-case scenario, with the assumption being that all of our important obligations (Lexpo, superhero team etc) are taken care of.


***

Speaking of free Intrigue, there's always Earl Dukeston. If people want to take care of the guy then right now it the best chance to do that.

Alternatively, there's always Tobias Whale, who actually has incriminating information on us and is a limiting factor on our ability to enter Dakota City.
 
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I feel like now is an important time to remind folks that we do have a soft cap on our number of heroes, and that it's starting to have effects. Worth considering when you go talking about hiring frenzies.

Also, I notice that we didn't augment anyone this turn... and we didn't build any labs this turn. There are things that we can do to improve ourselves that don't involve pushing further at that soft cap, and we shouldn't neglect them, even if the short-term gains aren't as immediately obvious as adding more people to the list.

I mean, I backed away from all of this and wasn't actually part of the discussion at the time, because I just didn't (and probably won't) have the resources to jump in the pit and debate, but....
 
I feel like now is an important time to remind folks that we do have a soft cap on our number of heroes, and that it's starting to have effects. Worth considering when you go talking about hiring frenzies.

Also, I notice that we didn't augment anyone this turn... and we didn't build any labs this turn. There are things that we can do to improve ourselves that don't involve pushing further at that soft cap, and we shouldn't neglect them, even if the short-term gains aren't as immediately obvious as adding more people to the list.

I mean, I backed away from all of this and wasn't actually part of the discussion at the time, because I just didn't (and probably won't) have the resources to jump in the pit and debate, but....

To be fair we did have Karl do some therapy, and the players did increase Rene's Diplomacy from 20 to 25 and the twins' Stewardship from 21 to 25 (now it's at 26, giving them +78 on stewardship actions), and we are planning on putting them to use on a massive lab action next turn, but we certainly could've done more.

Out of curiosity, do you have any particular suggestions for hero improvements that we can make on turn 32?
 
It's more about having enough Learning + good coops with Cassandra + otherwise expandable, which shrinks the list a fair bit. We'll need to see how things go, but off the top of my head there's only really Meena. Again, it's way too early to say but even regardless I'd like to have Starfire and Cassandra potentially max out their coop since it would make Starfire an amazing Diplomacy/Stewardship partner for Cassandra later down the line (especially if we push both to 25 for her), on top of the strategy action being a really good one with high chances to succeed in and of itself.
Yes and we can substitute Other hero's into actions we would put Meena on, and assign her to Cassandra. That +Emily is 78.
I don't think that you need to be scientifically capable to be able to organize a science event, nor do I think that it's a factor. It's kind of like the idea that you don't need to be a programmer to run a software company.
Maybe a normal science event, but one might simplify quite a few steps in explaining a one of a kind miracle invention like the Cold Engine particularly since Pamela has experience in simplifying things for children that will help her easily convey the significance of a given discovery. She doesn't need to let the scientists put together the explanations and then rework them to make them simpler to understand, check them with the scientists against what they originally gave her, work in any fixes, and then finally produce the final production. She can instead skip three of those five steps.
This read out to me as irrelevant. Talia will choose the actions that she thinks she is best suited for, and this not likely to be it to the point where I'd assume it (unlike our previous actions with her). It is possible of course, just pretty far from a sure thing.
How fortunate that talia is suited to back up Pamela here and handle security aspects in a discrete but effective manner as demonstrates during our last trip to gotham, while supporting any points she makes and providing her superior stewardship for organizational purposes.

Talia does the actions she wants to. The ones she deams worth her time. Collecting rapidly dwindling examples of alien tech that waged war against the planet was one of them, and Tracking down a dangerous assassin both her father and Hive have an interest in. She'll do this because it furthers her personal goal, and let's her observe Lexcorp take a tech generations beyond the average human's comprehension and simplify it into something that people understand and believe in as the future of humanity. Intrigue isn't her only good stat. She is more than just an assassin who wants to do stealthy shit.
I imagine that Pamela will be passionate about this, but she doesn't have a viable team-up on the action that is so good that we can afford to pull them from something else (as well as Pamela herself, honestly)
She could have plenty, particularly if we aren't taking superhero team, which isn't much of a priority for the best. Like with Carol, our superhero team doesn't have to be the first cape to fly effortlessly across the sky, they just need to become the agreed upon best and most admired team of heroes in the world.
Nah, not good enough.
Better than Leslie in my opinion. We all remember her last event and the damage control we ended up having to run.
This doesn't really address my points about Talia's placement or Pamela's personal scientific ability being relevant.

Yes, Talia will likely be able to put up better security measures, but the other stuff about Pamela (political acumen, which we don't care about in event organization, and scientific knowledge, which will not reflect in organizing an event, which is more of a marketing/logistics thing) is not really relevant.

I don't really understand the distinction "hostile events" and what that term is supposed to mean or how it's relevant to anything
I don't agree at all with any of this. Your not accounting for skills overlap at all and comparing a few small time metropolis protest events to Pamela's national campaigning for eco preservation and deciding that said comparison ends in Leslie's favor. Your dismissing Leslie's attitude and general approach to setting up events and how it could impact numerous details of Lexpo.

I'm honestly fine with it, yeah. I can trust her to organize the event and send invites, market the whole thing, and maybe manage a contest related to it or something, yeah. it's not like she's front and center stage or anything - Oswald and Roxanne were mostly in the background of the previous Lexpo.

They aren't the best team-up by any means obviously, but they are good enough to the point where I'd be fine with them. Obviously we will need to see how the other stuff pans out. For all we know the Lightyear expansion willallow us to create a music company outright.

We don't need an absolutely amazing, multi-hundred score on this either since we have relatively specific goals in mind that don't likely require a super high roll.
We don't need a multi hundred roll, but we do need people who are likeable. Leslie doesn't get along with most of our heroes for a reason, and there is no way that attention desperate egocentric madwoman doesn't set up the event in some way that puts herself in the spotlight. I'd rather not take the action this turn than take it with Leslie.
That's too much focus on the bone serum probably and Pamela's impact on the reward list won't be as good as in other places.
As a biologist who has worked on Bone serum before, she'll have a great impact on rewards.

Not in my opinion. We've seen twice this turn how teams with everything going for them kcan still fall short of crit. This is way more efficient investment than the 8ish actions of middling success where we just put moon and Karl on the action.
If the Bone serum is another 3 turns and the Gingo fruit stuff is another 3 turns, then it will be 6 but if we do things in parallel it will be 3. We can't be focusing all of our resources on one thing at a time.
Agreed, but we can put these resources on Karl if we want to because he is time sensitive. In 3 or 4 turns he'll be back to his mental unstable self and need another therapy to make sure when we actually give him the serum, he doesn't go entirely off his rocker.
I feel like now is an important time to remind folks that we do have a soft cap on our number of heroes, and that it's starting to have effects. Worth considering when you go talking about hiring frenzies.

Also, I notice that we didn't augment anyone this turn... and we didn't build any labs this turn. There are things that we can do to improve ourselves that don't involve pushing further at that soft cap, and we shouldn't neglect them, even if the short-term gains aren't as immediately obvious as adding more people to the list.

I mean, I backed away from all of this and wasn't actually part of the discussion at the time, because I just didn't (and probably won't) have the resources to jump in the pit and debate, but....
Most of these new heroes are from unexpected windfalls, and the attempt to recruit superheroes is more of a sponsor thing. I wouldn't expect any of these superheroes to end up full time employees we can assign to any task that occurs to us.

Occultist we are planning because that has never gone well for us and we now have Trigon to deal with.

We didn't augment anyone with what we have on hand, but we did maintenance on Karl, tried to teach raven a bunch of new magic, got cassandra a new trait, and are close to new traits on two of our older heroes, and if all goes according to plan Karl ill take his serum turn 33 or 34.

Yes we skipped labs this turn. There wasn't really anyone proper to spare to put on them and have good odds of success. Doing it dog every turn hasn't been working out so well, so we decided to comeback turn 32 with the D'Amaris twins, and possibly a double down. ..
 
Yes and we can substitute Other hero's into actions we would put Meena on, and assign her to Cassandra. That +Emily is 78.

Emily isn't available during turn 32. If she was then you'd be correct.

Maybe a normal science event, but one might simplify quite a few steps in explaining a one of a kind miracle invention like the Cold Engine particularly since Pamela has experience in simplifying things for children that will help her easily convey the significance of a given discovery. She doesn't need to let the scientists put together the explanations and then rework them to make them simpler to understand, check them with the scientists against what they originally gave her, work in any fixes, and then finally produce the final production. She can instead skip three of those five steps.

Pamela won't be explaining about the cold engine herself. There will likely be a panel or something for this sort of stuff and she won't be on it. This isn't her field of expertise, and even if it was then we have nameless Lexcorp mooks who worked on the Cold Engine and understand it far better than her.

How fortunate that talia is suited to back up Pamela here and handle security aspects in a discrete but effective manner as demonstrates during our last trip to gotham, while supporting any points she makes and providing her superior stewardship for organizational purposes.

Talia does the actions she wants to. The ones she deams worth her time. Collecting rapidly dwindling examples of alien tech that waged war against the planet was one of them, and Tracking down a dangerous assassin both her father and Hive have an interest in. She'll do this because it furthers her personal goal, and let's her observe Lexcorp take a tech generations beyond the average human's comprehension and simplify it into something that people understand and believe in as the future of humanity. Intrigue isn't her only good stat. She is more than just an assassin who wants to do stealthy shit.

Talia is not assigned to secure the event though, but to organize it. Which is a Diplomacy thing and it just isn't her biggest strength. One may lead to the other obviously.

The previous actions were more aligned with her abilities even though there were other actions that working on would've been preferable for her personally. It would depend on what other actions there are available for her to take, but there is no reason to assume that she will outright prioritize this one over any other even if we request it out of her and we can't know that until we roll for the results (unless of course king crimson is willing to tell us but I'm doubtful)

She could have plenty, particularly if we aren't taking superhero team, which isn't much of a priority for the best. Like with Carol, our superhero team doesn't have to be the first cape to fly effortlessly across the sky, they just need to become the agreed upon best and most admired team of heroes in the world.

This is wrong. The advantage here is twofold.

By being the first team we are a trendsetter, and a lot of the regulations for hero teams (for which there are none currently) will stem from how we will make our own, which will force other teams to play by our rules. Secondly, It will give us more widespread support if we are the team that rises to match Chinese influence in the world, which will likely result in the government itself advocating for us due to their own political interests, effectively and by default making us the premier superhero team that all other will need to tear down from the throne.

The second reason is why we are having such a hard time pushing Ultraviolet firmly ahead of Superman btw.

Better than Leslie in my opinion. We all remember her last event and the damage control we ended up having to run.

We are the ones who sabotaged it.

Even aside from that, are you suggesting that Leslie's events result in freak accidents or something? What is the argument here?

I don't agree at all with any of this. Your not accounting for skills overlap at all and comparing a few small time metropolis protest events to Pamela's national campaigning for eco preservation and deciding that said comparison ends in Leslie's favor. Your dismissing Leslie's attitude and general approach to setting up events and how it could impact numerous details of Lexpo.

There isn't really much overlap. Pamela's work primarily focused on pushing for policy and doing actual political work, and her public campaigning efforts... are actually very few. She set up informational programs, but that's pretty much it.

Pamela is obviously better due to having higher Diplomacy, but in terms of aptitude for the task specifically, Leslie is probably better. Pamela isn't so much better to the point of compromising alternative actions to take this one, and Leslie is firmly in the "good enough" category as long as she gets some help.

We will need to see how things pan out and we might end up putting her on a Diplomacy action, but then it would mean that the Gingo fruit got delayed for the 5th turn in a row (the original follow-up was on turn 27) and that's a shame.

I am dismissing Leslie's attitude because organizing events has very little to do with attitude when compared to logistics and marketing. It's literally completely irrelevant in terms of our image or anything of the sort.

We don't need a multi hundred roll, but we do need people who are likeable. Leslie doesn't get along with most of our heroes for a reason, and there is no way that attention desperate egocentric madwoman doesn't set up the event in some way that puts herself in the spotlight. I'd rather not take the action this turn than take it with Leslie.

We don't need likable people to organize an event, we need people who can organize an event.

As a biologist who has worked on Bone serum before, she'll have a great impact on rewards.

Botanist. Not really relevant other than raw Learning which is always valuable obviously.

Not in my opinion. We've seen twice this turn how teams with everything going for them kcan still fall short of crit. This is way more efficient investment than the 8ish actions of middling success where we just put moon and Karl on the action.

Again, this is not how probability works. failures and successes are independent. We also got massive successes on unlikely actions as well.

We got Karl help specifically to crank out Bone Serum actions non-stop. It would depend on how much help said help provides obviously, but we can pretty much lock them together in a box and let them do their own thing for 3-4 turns. If the help is good then we are in no rush, and we can always add a stray Learning hero to bump it if we really feel the need.

Agreed, but we can put these resources on Karl if we want to because he is time sensitive. In 3 or 4 turns he'll be back to his mental unstable self and need another therapy to make sure when we actually give him the serum, he doesn't go entirely off his rocker.

We don't know that, and at worst we can just do more therapy. There isn't really any time limit here since it's not like he'll explode or anything, and you don't what's the extent of his collapse will be. For all we know, making progress on the serum will be good for him.
 
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I'm not sure Cassandra can mingle unless we debut her, and @King crimson may rule she has to be debuted at least one turn prior to Lexpo to attend it.
Cassandra can mingle without being debuted, she just can't ever pull the card of "I'm Cassandra Luthor" to people and will be attending semi-anonymously.
Child is under 16, especially for this quest. Helena's child based diplomacy trait still activates for Raven, which was part of the reason we wanted her on the Leyline investigation in turn 29. It should 100% activate, but we can confirm with @King crimson.
I mean I'll double check if people want but I'm fairly certain this statement is correct.
I'm pretty sure that child is anything below 13 mechanically (children get a debuff for taking child actions by themselves while teens don't) but we will need to see.
This is somewhat true. To clarify on the child perspective, there's technically two components to it. Under 16 you do not get an extra action when they have a coop score of one or greater with Lex Luthor. Under thirteen and there are generally penalties for them taking actions by themselves.

I believe for Oswald's trait I was comfortable with including the broader definition of "child" of up to 16 but I can check to 100% confirm for people.
(for which there are none currently)
No teams in the US (the Great Ten is a Chinese team). I'm not commenting on your overall points viability I'm just being a bit myopic and pointing out a technicality that slightly modifies your above statement.
 
No teams in the US (the Great Ten is a Chinese team). I'm not commenting on your overall points viability I'm just being a bit myopic and pointing out a technicality that slightly modifies your above statement.

I meant that there are no regulations for teams specifically. I imagine that China has its own regulation for the Great Ten regardless.

edit: does Oswald's trait add 20 to each roll or 20 at the end of all rolls? Turn 26 tells me that it's the former but the description isn't clear.
 
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Talia is not assigned to secure the event though, but to organize it. Which is a Diplomacy thing and it just isn't her biggest strength. One may lead to the other obviously.
Yes and more than one stat is used in the course of determining what happens narratively in an action. Security can be organized, worked into effective patrols that cover the areas they need to while being discrete enough to not distract from the event. This has been emphasized across numerous turns, interludes, and is especially impactful during events, where unpredictable situations can arise and need the events organizer to make a choice on how to respond. If something goes wrong, Pamela and Talia are better suited to arranging a response and keeping things quite than leslie and tag along lisa snart.


The previous actions were more aligned with her abilities even though there were other actions that working on would've been preferable for her personally. It would depend on what other actions there are available for her to take, but there is no reason to assume that she will outright prioritize this one over any other even if we request it out of her and we can't know that until we roll for the results (unless of course king crimson is willing to tell us but I'm doubtful)
I am fairly confident between her reasons to have a personal stake in this event and Lex asking she'll have more than enough reason to accept this over other options that might appeal to her. Afterall, it's not like we will be doing anything interesting in terms of intrique unless we decide to go after hive/Jackal in hopes of preventing Joseph from being harmed.
Even aside from that, are you suggesting that Leslie's events result in freak accidents or something? What is the argument here?
That she has a reckless streak and really shouldn't be trusted with big public events that already will be given the side eye for the last one going a bit wrong.
I am dismissing Leslie's attitude because organizing events has very little to do with attitude when compared to logistics and marketing. It's literally completely irrelevant in terms of our image or anything of the sort.
Oswald influenced the event by giving us an option to invite promising young children. Leslie will similarly impact the event in term of tone and oppertunity.
Botanist. Not really relevant other than raw Learning which is always valuable obviously
I'm pretty sure it's both.
 
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Kangaroos couldn't manage the rainy weather. Not to mention they would likely be illegal to import into England without a license.
As a Brit I feel the need to point out that there actually used to be quite a sizeable population of wallaby's on an island in Scotland until they were culled because they started encroaching on other animals environments, though there are still a fair few today.

Though I'm not sure how well that translates to kangaroos.
[ ] [Barbara] Spend some time with the LexCorp other interns
Roll 3
This failure could be a bad thing for us or it could be a good one.

On the one hand the more friends Barbara has at LexCorp the less likely she arguably is to believe anything bad about us but on the other hand the fewer friends she has the less contacts she has to reach out to as part of an investigation.
The U.S have their own superhuman assets and if push comes to shove people like Diana can get involved (and that's on top of the heroes)
Black Adam is a Superman/Captain Marvel level threat, I'd still give him decent odds against most things the military could throw at him.

Plus the man is by no means an idiot, he wouldn't just charge in blindly without a plan or allies.
If he picks a fight he's done point black. The U.S will wreck his country in war and he himself will be branded an international war criminal.
Yes because the US government has never allowed foreign dictators to do questionable things when it benefits them.

Also Black Adam's mere existence makes him a deterrent, you're talking about the US government conducting a long, drawn out war against a foreign power on the other side of the planet that they helped install where thousands of their own people would die all over the death of one man.
The thing is that these things are for the good of the country and some people would be willing to justify them. Allowing Black Adam to enter the country to kill one of its icons does not fall under this justification. Not to say that Waller isn't willing to do it if she thinks that it will benefit the country, but unless they came to such an agreement beforehand Adam will need to give up a shit-ton in negotiations to get her help on this, and even then he'll likely fail if we have Captain Marvel's back which will make it unviable for Waller to help him.
Having an ally in the Middle East that has magical connections and is almost as strong as Superman is all the justification Waller needs, especially when she can just bury her connection if worst comes to worst.

Plus Waller hates us, "this will hurt LexCorp" is a bonus for her that Black Adam would definitely use to help sell her on it.
It is an obligations that nets us almost nothing since this isn't like Queen Bee where she tries to match our help. I also don't see how we would be getting off of Waller's shit list.
A country where we control a lot of its economy and infrastructure is inherently beneficial to us especially if that place has a strong magic tradition.

Also I meant to say that we're never getting off of Waller's shit list.
Being more helpful than Waller would decrease her control over the situation and essentially make it so she wasted a bunch of resources for nothing if Black Adam sides with us rather than her. This will firmly place us in her shit list.
No more than we already are.
I'm not really worried about it. Not only will we be getting to him first, but Superman has shown a strong bias against Lexcorp and is unlikely to try and actively convince anyone as much as he's likely to throw shade while often being ignorant of the reality of many things, making it easy to discredit him.

The more likely scenario is that Superman will be somewhat hostile and prejudiced against Captain Marvel and end up alienating him.
Superman isn't some idiot that's just going to throw random accusations around, he's an intelligent and charismatic man who even if he has no evidence isn't just going to come across as a madman.
First of all, she had the authority over environmental regulation enforcement (not coming up with laws) so stuff like cracking down on pollution was entirely under her jurisdiction... but those actions still faced resistance because other departments get involved and there is such a thing as internal politics (and lobbying) as well.
The two situation are entirely incomparable though. Pamela needed to work with other agencies like the Department of Energy, Deparmtent of the Interior or the Department of Transportation because the regulations she wanted to implement directly impacted them and they had the power to contest them.

Diana denying someone sponsorship is an entirely internal decision that no other agency has say over or a way to contest.
Diana certainly could use our help with that given her lack of political leverage (which is why she needed our help in the first place) and pushing for controversial or unpopular moves is going to cost her politically and she needs allies to smooth things over, and Green Lantern is by this point a multi-decade brand so there's bound to be resistance like it or not.
I won't deny the possibility that Diana could use some political leverage in case some people really want to sponsor tone of the Green Lanterns but it's definitely something we should discuss with her first rather than going straight to Eiling.
He isn't as popular as the other Green Lanterns, which is why now is the time to take a stance against him, but he is still popular and there will be those who will see this as an opportunity and there will be some backlash over this regardless of anything since that's how politics work.
Even Hal isn't particularly popular, he hasn't been seen in years and is publicly known to have mutilated a scared girl who was the victim of child abuse.
I don't know if you are right about it being a government satellite since I think that it's our satellite that picked that stuff up, but given the current knowledge-base and the fact that aliens keep getting to Earth and that Superman outright encountered at least one alien government body not that far away in space-terms, I don't see how this is very abstract or theoretical.
Look, could we maybe justify asking that in a situation where we had all the time in the world? Sure maybe. But it's genuinely nowhere near the list of priorities right now.
As I explained multiple times, this isn't about "jumping to conclusions" but proposing an alternative theory. This isn't saying "hey it's the Ultra-Humanite!" but rather "Hey, you checked him physically, how about you check him mentally? We know that tech that compromises the mind exists"
Let's just agree to disagree on this one.
* Yo do the D'armis sisters want to leave us?? Red flag red flag, what can we do to make them happy??? Find the murderer of their parents or something?
Eh Vivian is just reflecting on her life, plus they don't really have any choice but to stay with us right now.

Their alternatives are either:

1) Jump ship to another company like Wayne Pharmaceutical, which wouldn't solve the actual problem they'd just be swapping Lex Luthor for Bruce Wayne, a notable downgrade. Plus they almost certainly wouldn't have the same prestigious position.

2) Start an entirely new company, which would leave them competing with two titans of the industry with a lot more resources than them and one of which even uses their name.
Batman and his inner circle won't care much. It's just money after all. Now if we have her use her last turn with the company adding her to a strong team to build a Lexcorp Tower in Gotham, that might cause tensions to rise on both sides, Barbara for Bruce trying to oppose it's construction, Bruce for Barbara assisting. honestly it makes me wish we'd done that this turn instead. The 91 would have come in handy, and a big enough success might have triggered a blow up argument between the two, but it's something we can discuss as a turn 32 option.
Eh honestly having a tower in Gotham is risky enough without one of Batman's sidekicks having helped to build it.
1) Hiring magic users (IMO we should put Lex and Marie on this with a double down so that Marie can get that trait)
2) Meeting with Amy (We 100% need to follow up on her)
3) Lexpo (For hiring, for clout, as distraction, for Cassandra to mingle, to make some political moves against rivals and to gather info on them etc)
4) Create a Superhero team (this one is important and would probably justify a double down regardless)
Putting aside my thoughts on the Lexpo I do have a few notes:

1) I feel like we should have at least one magic capable person on the hire magic users action if only to make absolutely sure we aren't being scammed or missing something somehow.

2) Meetin with Amy will probably be a low DC action and I'd kinda want to put Jinx on it if she isn't busy with an Intrigue action.

3) Create a Superhero Team is a DC of 0 so while we definitely want it to go well we could theoretically just put Lance on it if we wanted to.
He is? I was kind of in favor of putting him on Cassandra social since she is so eager to be out and about. Either meeting one of the friends actions or a debutes. We could use Lucy instead, but even then I'd just attach him to Lexpo.
Yes please, Cassie Sandsmark or Antonia Monetti would make very good friends/minions for Cassandra
If your set on guaranteeing her trait this turn, the better thing to do is to assign Lex, Felicity and Marie to expand future construction and come back to recruit occultists turn 33. Expanding a different company may work as well, and Ferris Aerospace and Lexcorp are fine alternative candidates.
I would also potentially argue that meeting with the people at Keystone Motors might work since it's bringing them more into the fold and could easily net us some hero units
Also, Enoch is an old man approaching the end of his life, who we need to convince to trust Lexcorp with his work and come back out of retirement. It would need a more diplomacy capable intrigue team than we will be free to spare this turn.
To be fair, short of an immense success it's most likely that "Find Enoch Brown" and "Talk to Enoch Brown" will be two separate actions and should we get such a success I doubt that KC would punish us by having our team screw up first contact.
I feel like now is an important time to remind folks that we do have a soft cap on our number of heroes, and that it's starting to have effects. Worth considering when you go talking about hiring frenzies.

Also, I notice that we didn't augment anyone this turn... and we didn't build any labs this turn. There are things that we can do to improve ourselves that don't involve pushing further at that soft cap, and we shouldn't neglect them, even if the short-term gains aren't as immediately obvious as adding more people to the list.

I mean, I backed away from all of this and wasn't actually part of the discussion at the time, because I just didn't (and probably won't) have the resources to jump in the pit and debate, but....
I still debate that we're approaching the soft cap, iirc the topic just happened to come up at a time where we had one or two Herr units undergoing their own stuff and that made people think we were.

As for not augmenting people, we did get Karl his therapy and are very very close to solving Marie's problem.
I believe for Oswald's trait I was comfortable with including the broader definition of "child" of up to 16 but I can check to 100% confirm for people.
I think that makes sense personally, to someone of Oswald's age 16 is still a child and we've seen plenty of people of that age group who grew up with his show and admire him.
 
As a Brit I feel the need to point out that there actually used to be quite a sizeable population of wallaby's on an island in Scotland until they were culled because they started encroaching on other animals environments, though there are still a fair few today.

Though I'm not sure how well that translates to kangaroos.
After a little bit of research, the answer is that kangaroos actually could probably deal with the weather in the UK. This was an example of me looking for a large mammal that lives in a desert and making a statement that it couldn't live outside of it. I suppose if I wanted to be more accurate I could switch it to like an Oryx or something but I think it's fine if Lady Vic isn't 100% accurate with her assessment of the viability of Kangaroos in the UK.

It is neat to learn about the wallabies though, they're like the wild zebras in Northern California.
 
Yes and more than one stat is used in the course of determining what happens narratively in an action. Security can be organized, as in setting effective but discrete patrols and such. This has been the case for quite some time and applies particularly strongly when it comes to events which might have unforseen hurdles.

Yes, but this isn't a clear-cut strength of Talia to go into event organization to go into security. There is a degree of separation here that didn't exist in the previous actions.

worked into effective patrols that cover the areas they need to while being discrete enough to not distract from the event. This has been emphasized across numerous turns, interludes, and is especially impactful during events, where unpredictable situations can arise and need the events organizer to make a choice on how to respond. If something goes wrong, Pamela and Talia are better suited to arranging a response and keeping things quite than leslie and tag along lisa snart.
I think you misquoted.

I am fairly confident between her reasons to have a personal stake in this event and Lex asking she'll have more than enough reason to accept this over other options that might appeal to her. Afterall, it's not like we will be doing anything interesting in terms of intrique unless we decide to go after hive/Jackal in hopes of preventing Joseph from being harmed.

Her environmental interests are certainly a point for why she might be interested in helping with the Cold Engine, true. That might tilt things enough for her to do it, but I'm not necessarily certain that she can't be better used elsewhere (or alternatively, Pamela is). We'll need to see.

Worse comes to worst, we can always just have Caitlin solo it. With her trait she will have 40 in Learning.

Her Stewardship is preferable to her Diplomacy, else is her Martial.

That she has a reckless streak and really shouldn't be trusted with big public events that already will be given the side eye for the last one going a bit wrong.

This is a very poor argument. Not only were we the ones that caused the incident (and that it was a freak incident), the reason for her recklessness was her trait, which will not activate here.

Oswald influenced the event by giving us an option to invite promising young children. Leslie will similarly impact the event in term of tone and oppertunity.

Similarly, Leslie can advertise the event on her talk show and maybe run some sort of competition between callers for tickets.

I'm pretty sure it's both.

Pamela's biology expertise extends primarily to plant-life integration. She isn't a biologist by trade.

Black Adam is a Superman/Captain Marvel level threat, I'd still give him decent odds against most things the military could throw at him.

Plus the man is by no means an idiot, he wouldn't just charge in blindly without a plan or allies.

He will need to bargain with Waller for allies and plans, and she will have us to contend with.

Superman can't take on the entire military and government by himself either, and neither can Black Adam. Other heroes will get involved as well and it will be a whole mess.

Yes because the US government has never allowed foreign dictators to do questionable things when it benefits them.

Also Black Adam's mere existence makes him a deterrent, you're talking about the US government conducting a long, drawn out war against a foreign power on the other side of the planet that they helped install where thousands of their own people would die all over the death of one man.

They are allowing it in-quest as well with Santa Prisca and Kandaq. It won't be enough to justify letting someone invade the U.S. itself.

The second part is still not a justification for an action of that magnitude. You are talking about letting a foreign, superpowered leader, invade the U.S., potentially wreck a city (Fawcett) and kill one of the country's icons. This is entirely too big and if we take Captain Marvel in they will never pull it off.

Having an ally in the Middle East that has magical connections and is almost as strong as Superman is all the justification Waller needs, especially when she can just bury her connection if worst comes to worst.

Plus Waller hates us, "this will hurt LexCorp" is a bonus for her that Black Adam would definitely use to help sell her on it.

You are explaining why Black Adam is important, not why Waller would be willing to justify an invasion on the U.S + picking a fight with Lex Luthor + having very real chances to fail to appease said important man.

What sort of concessions can Black Adam make to justify this?

A country where we control a lot of its economy and infrastructure is inherently beneficial to us especially if that place has a strong magic tradition.

I don't see this level of control ever being possible, Queen Bee already fills most of that niche regardless and splitting the change isn't worth Waller.

No more than we already are.

She will need to spend further resources to actively fight our direct interference. Right now we are on her shit list since we are too powerful, we will shoot right up said list if we make her burn through her resources and compromise her asset.

Superman isn't some idiot that's just going to throw random accusations around, he's an intelligent and charismatic man who even if he has no evidence isn't just going to come across as a madman.

He already did do that though. Just last turn. Something about us disecting an alien to gain the favor of his cousin? Where's the evidence for that?

The two situation are entirely incomparable though. Pamela needed to work with other agencies like the Department of Energy, Deparmtent of the Interior or the Department of Transportation because the regulations she wanted to implement directly impacted them and they had the power to contest them.

Diana denying someone sponsorship is an entirely internal decision that no other agency has say over or a way to contest.

Similarly, Pamela didn't "need" to consult anyone to release informational posts about Kryptonite energy and its utility to increase awareness, but she still faced internal resistance for it. The U.S government resists itself at all times, both internally and externally.

Aside from that, any action that anyone takes in politics, if it's big enough, will draw a response necessarily. Eiling could've helped smooth over said response. The justification that you give is the one that we want pushed, but it's still an inherently political narrative.

I won't deny the possibility that Diana could use some political leverage in case some people really want to sponsor tone of the Green Lanterns but it's definitely something we should discuss with her first rather than going straight to Eiling.

I'm not really sure how that's relevant. What would that gain us when compared to just recruiting an ally for the push directly? Keep in mind that according to our agreement Diana can veto our veto pretty much at any time, and if she thinks that the action will lead to too much backlash and that Green Lantern "is too big" then she will just not do it. Having others push for this will give her the ground for the move.

Look, could we maybe justify asking that in a situation where we had all the time in the world? Sure maybe. But it's genuinely nowhere near the list of priorities right now.

Yeah, that's the point. My issue is that you said "there is no reason to talk about it" since IMO there is, but due to the poor roll we are forced to skip on it.

Eh Vivian is just reflecting on her life, plus they don't really have any choice but to stay with us right now.

Their alternatives are either:

1) Jump ship to another company like Wayne Pharmaceutical, which wouldn't solve the actual problem they'd just be swapping Lex Luthor for Bruce Wayne, a notable downgrade. Plus they almost certainly wouldn't have the same prestigious position.

2) Start an entirely new company, which would leave them competing with two titans of the industry with a lot more resources than them and one of which even uses their name.

If we can tie them closer then we should tie them closer. There are many units that I wouldn't mind losing for the soft Cap (Louise and Karl retiring, Moon getting taken out by Queen Bee, Elaine getting fired and tossed back to Ireland etc), but the twins aren't on that list. We can have Nygma run a background check on them next turn since we can spare him for that, and then find their parent's killer and bring him to justice.

They are worth the effort.

Yes please, Cassie Sandsmark or Antonia Monetti would make very good friends/minions for Cassandra

His trait can also help socialize Raven and fix her shitty Diplomacy and coops.
 
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Yes, but this isn't a clear-cut strength of Talia to go into event organization to go into security. There is a degree of separation here that didn't exist in the previous actions.
It is. Talia has been running infiltration and counter infiltration since before Lex was born, and with our new sponsored heroes, a degree of infiltration is going to be needed for any sort of theft, sabotage, or attack. Our regular security and heroes can handle any actual fights or command of our forces.
I think you misquoted
Yeah I think I accidently inserted a quote into the middle of a paragraph and then got confused and fixed the paragraph instead of deleting the quote. It's fixed now.
Similarly, Leslie can advertise the event on her talk show and maybe run some sort of competition between callers for tickets.
Not sure why this would be a positive. Frankly leaning more and more into dropping one of the four diplomacy actions we've discussed to get a team we can agree with on this if the heroes we get this turn aren't up to cover things.
 
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It is. Talia has been running infiltration and counter infiltration since before Lex was born, and with our new sponsored heroes, a degree of infiltration is going to be needed for any sort of theft, sabotage, or attack. Our regular security and heroes can handle any actual fights or command of our forces.

To an extent it's true, but that doesn't really address the degree of separation that I talked about, or how this isn't solved by just having Talia around vs being a part of the organization.

Not sure why this would be a positive. Frankly leaning more and more into dropping one of the four diplomacy actions we've discussed to get a team we can agree with on this if the heroes we get this turn aren't up to cover things.

We can't really give up any of them, unfortunately. We might be able to put Pamela and Talia on the action and have Caitlin brute force the Gingo fruit or something, but all of the four actions that I brought up need to be taken right now.

This still doesn't leave us with an amazing team to advertise our hero group, unless of course we want to give up on therapy for Paige, and maybe we can pull off the music company this turn.

Well, if we really wanted to give up on one it could be the Amy action since it's not really time critical, but I personally wouldn't like it and we run the risk of an unpredictable development with her, and it wouldn't clear a whole lot of resources regardless.

We'll need to see how this ends up playing out but Diplomacy is unfortunately tight.
 
He will need to bargain with Waller for allies and plans, and she will have us to contend with.
No he wouldn't? Black Adam isn't some thug that needs Waller to supply him with plans and resources, he's a very intelligent man in his own right that is entirely capable of making a plan and blathering allies all by himself.
Superman can't take on the entire military and government by himself either, and neither can Black Adam. Other heroes will get involved as well and it will be a whole mess.
Eh yes he could. Plus you're assuming all these people would have a chance to intervene when they wouldn't, Black Adam would undergo the action and whether he succeeds or fails almost certainly be out of there by the time anyone can respond.
They are allowing it in-quest as well with Santa Prisca and Kandaq. It won't be enough to justify letting someone invade the U.S. itself.
The use of the word invasion is an exaggeration, it's one dude showing up to potentially murder a guy.
The second part is still not a justification for an action of that magnitude. You are talking about letting a foreign, superpowered leader, invade the U.S., potentially wreck a city (Fawcett) and kill one of the country's icons. This is entirely too big and if we take Captain Marvel in they will never pull it off.
Hence them making a plan and depending on how things go they could easily excuse it just by saying that invading Kahndaq isn't worth the death toll.

Plus no matter what you say or think inevitably Black Adam will attempt something like that, whether he does it directly, more subtly, with or without Waller's assistance he will do it eventually.
You are explaining why Black Adam is important, not why Waller would be willing to justify an invasion on the U.S + picking a fight with Lex Luthor + having very real chances to fail to appease said important man.
1) Not an invasion
2) She already doesn't like us and is willing to pick a fight with us
3) Even if it fails Waller will likely cover her back and will have fulfilled her end of the bargain with Adam.
She will need to spend further resources to actively fight our direct interference. Right now we are on her shit list since we are too powerful, we will shoot right up said list if we make her burn through her resources and compromise her asset.
We will continue to shoot up that list as long as we keep expanding anyway, the major difference is whose side Black Adam is on when the time comes.
He already did do that though. Just last turn. Something about us disecting an alien to gain the favor of his cousin? Where's the evidence for that?
No what he said is that he didn't trust us no to just turn around and give him to Supergirl, who we had been working with and had expressed a desire to do just that.

In a calm conversation he isn't going to come across as a crazy conspiracy theorist.
Similarly, Pamela didn't "need" to consult anyone to release informational posts about Kryptonite energy and its utility to increase awareness, but she still faced internal resistance for it. The U.S government resists itself at all times, both internally and externally.
She didn't consult anyone, she worked with the departments directly effected by the regulations and materials she wanted to introduce. The EPA can't just tell other government departments what to do without making deals with them.
Aside from that, any action that anyone takes in politics, if it's big enough, will draw a response necessarily. Eiling could've helped smooth over said response. The justification that you give is the one that we want pushed, but it's still an inherently political narrative.
I highly doubt that denying the Green Lanterns sponsorship will be that controversial a move.
I'm not really sure how that's relevant. What would that gain us when compared to just recruiting an ally for the push directly? Keep in mind that according to our agreement Diana can veto our veto pretty much at any time, and if she thinks that the action will lead to too much backlash and that Green Lantern "is too big" then she will just not do it. Having others push for this will give her the ground for the move.
I highly doubt that Diana will waste valuable social capital with Lex on the Green Lanterns behalf and us having Eiling pressure her before talking to her directly looks bad.
Yeah, that's the point. My issue is that you said "there is no reason to talk about it" since IMO there is, but due to the poor roll we are forced to skip on it.
Being quite honest I wouldn't have voted to do it even if we had the time but to each their own.
If we can tie them closer then we should tie them closer. There are many units that I wouldn't mind losing for the soft Cap (Louise and Karl retiring, Moon getting taken out by Queen Bee, Elaine getting fired and tossed back to Ireland etc), but the twins aren't on that list. We can have Nygma run a background check on them next turn since we can spare him for that, and then find their parent's killer and bring him to justice.

They are worth the effort.
Sure, I agree. I'm just saying I'm not panicking right away.
His trait can also help socialize Raven and fix her shitty Diplomacy and coops.
His trait can also help socialize Raven and fix her shitty Diplomacy and coops.
Eh that's not a major issue, especially since I doubt it would help those much.
Frankly leaning more and more into dropping one of the four diplomacy actions we've discussed to get a team we can agree with on this if the heroes we get this turn aren't up to cover things.
Putting aside my thoughts on delaying Lexpo we could probably afford to delay hiring more occultists if we really had to, it would spare us some of our most important heroes after all.

Plus it's entirely possible we get some magic heroes this turn but we'll see.
I got a question, is there a Godzilla monster equivalent in DC?
There have been a few homages over the years but I don't think there's a straight up named character.
 
This still doesn't leave us with an amazing team to advertise our hero group, unless of course we want to give up on therapy for Paige, and maybe we can pull off the music company this turn.
Ideally we can just pull off the music company and that will free up Oswald.

Also the superhero team action doesn't really read as advertising to me. I think your misunderstanding it.
[ ] Form a new superhero team under LexCorp's aegis
DC 0 (the higher the roll the better the result) As of right now you have enough individuals with useful skills in your employ to form your own Superteam if you so choose. from Ultraviolet to Siobhan McDougall to Pamela Isley and even people like Roxanne Sutton, you are not lacking for members. That being said not everyone who could be a superhero wants to be a superhero and you have no idea how the public might react to this being announced. You're confident you can control the narrative but it's still something you are aware of as somewhat of an unknown
With lightyear entertainment expansion we can probably control the narrative fairly easily, and with multiple heroes recruited this turn the issue of convincing people to be superheroes is handled, so I don't feel an amazing team is needed.
 
I got a question, is there a Godzilla monster equivalent in DC?
Are we speaking just general "big lizard monster with radiation breathe" or just general kaiju's?

I think that there was an alien species that looked like Godzilla that was a member of the Green Lantern Corps, Starro is often a big building sized Starfish monster, Karaqan is more of a tentacled crab sea monster thing but he's massive, Titano is basically King Kong with some extra properties slapped on as appropriate, Drakul Karfang is a dragon so she might fit the niche for "giant lizard with powerful breathe weapon", Brimstone is often artificial and is more humanoid but is a massive rampaging nuclear monster, there's the Centre from the New Frontier comics which is a flying sentient psychic island, Fire Trolls loosely line up with some traits of Godzilla, Giant Turtle man probably doesn't really count because it's usually a mutated Jimmy Olson but that does line up with "giant rampaging reptile monster" (though admittedly more Gamera than Godzilla), the Rainbow Creature, the Prometheon, Ultra-Humanite once placed their brain in a T-Rex from dinosaur island, and a whole lot more one offs beyond that which you could pretty easily line up with Godzilla.
 
Just a quick question. Which action are we intending to put Lex on for next turn?
Depends. If the DC on Odin drops sufficiently I'm in favor of putting him and Caitlin on ODIN. It's our trump card in the event of a Kryptonian invasion after all.

Alternatively we may recruit occultists, though that will depend largly on who we get in terms of new hires from doctors and actors subvotes.

There is also the option to expand one of our 3 main businesses, Lexcorp, future construction, and Ferris Aerospace. They all have different benefits to long and short term goals and with the right team we have good odds of triggering Marie getting a new trait.

Last is the option to put Lex in charge of a repair metropolis team if we are truly fed up with how long it's taking. Lex + Felicity + Mari would get us to 95, likely finishing it this turn with extra to spare to expand the city a little.

Or we could aim to complete multiple zeta beam stations with the same team, likely building them in 4 to 6 towers depending on rolls.
 
I still debate that we're approaching the soft cap, iirc the topic just happened to come up at a time where we had one or two Herr units undergoing their own stuff and that made people think we were.

As for not augmenting people, we did get Karl his therapy and are very very close to solving Marie's problem.
The soft cap is... very soft.

When we have very few heroes compared to our capacity, their personal issues are basically not even a thing. Lex can just manage them.

When we have a moderate number of heroes compared to our capacity, their personal issues are a detail, but really not a big deal. They show up, they happen, but they're easy to work around.

When we have a significant number of heroes compared to our capacity, their issues start to me more of a thing. We have to strategize around them to a degree, we have to take specific actions in order to let the heroes be on those actions to keep them happy, we need to not put certain heroes on certain actions because it will make them unhappy, they start acting out a bit during nemesis actions, and so forth. This is the level we were at. It's probably the level we want to target overall. All later levels are speculative, because we haven't gotten there yet.

When we are starting to strain our capacity, their issues start to be serious constraints. They show up more frequently, and are a bigger deal. More juggling is required. The "how do I keep my heroes happy and/or under control" minigame starts to be a major concern when plotting out our turns, and something we need to pay attention to in a long-term way as well as a short-term way.

When we are severely straining our capacity, that all gets worse. Moreover, we can wind up with heroes just up and leaving for whatever reason, especially if we miss a trick on the "keeping my heroes happy" minigame and/or they weren't all that strongly attached to begin with.

/*************/

Current situation? Well, if I'm remembering this right, we hit the "significant number of heroes" level a while back. Then we put in a bunch of new on-campus housing, which pretty much explicitly serves as mitigation for these issues. I'm guessing we're back down to the moderate to low significant range. So we have a bit more space left in the cap, sure. That doesn't mean that the cap is not a thing.

I figure that "starting to strain" is when it starts being worthwhile to quietly ditch some of the high-drama low-value heroes because they're simply not worth having anymore. We're pretty much already at the point where it's not worth adding new low-value heroes, or will be by the point this turn is done.
 
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Some Stuff on Divination
Some Stuff on Divination
Been a while since I managed to finish up one of these. I figured people would appreciate it if I were to continue slowly but surely working my way through each of the schools of magic. With this entry I'm technically over 1/4th of the way through my original list. Again as always keep in mind that a lot of the taxonomical breakdown of fields of magic is to some degree a misnomer once you get into the really nitty gritty details and that this is more meant to be a general sweeping overview rather than an in-depth hard classification.

Defining Terms
What even is Divination? The simplest most on the nose answer is that divination is any sort of magic that involves the gathering/reception of information that could not be collected by the magic user via the use of their natural senses. This seems straightforward at first glance but actually gets a lot more complicated once you start looking into the details. Naturally any form of scrying (seeing through objects), augury (using rituals to predict the future), clairvoyance (obtaining information magically) or future sight (knowing the future because of magic) is some form of divination. That being said divination has a lot of bleed through into other fields of magic. A lot of enchantments contain an element of divination, either in senses being enhanced through magic or in providing the enchanted individual innate knowledge on how to use/activate the enchantment. Invocation similarly often carries an element of divination so as to reduce the learning curve when drawing on a foreign power source and animation often contains a degree of what could be argued as divination in imparting knowledge/information to constructs to act upon. Things get even messier with time delayed curses. Prophecies fall solidly into divination but if a sufficiently powerful magic user were to cast a spell that acts on a time delay it's functionally indistinguishable from a prophecy. Is that then divination? Are all spells with set time delays divination? And since virtually no magic occurs instantaneously, is there not an argument for all magic to be divination?

The exact nature of what is and isn't divination is unclear though most magical scholars will attempt to create a distinguishing line in what is and isn't divination via determining whether or not the magic user acts upon the world or passively receives the information from the world. This in and of itself leads to a degree of scholarly argument over what is the nature of time, fate and prophecy with regards to magic which is generally a mess with multiple scholars having competing opinions on the matter. That being said the difference between acting to bring about a set result/action and observing/learning of others results/actions is generally intuitive enough for people to follow.

Some History
Because divination is such a debated topic as to what exactly constitutes it, it's very difficult to come up with a very solid origin point in history for it as a field. Some claim that it even predates any sort of recorded human history with its first developments. What is known is that divination did start to evolve as societies came into play. As early as the Sumerians, magicians began organizing and establishing rituals to expand on divination, most notably through the enhancement of scrying techniques. In a time predating the unification of the kingdoms of Egypt, scrying through goblets had become a relatively established practice.

Throughout this period of time various individuals have claimed to have magical powers of prophecy and that they could see the future. The very nature of predicting the future and the vagueness of prophecies makes it difficult to figure out exactly who was honest and how exactly their magic functioned could actively skew results but it is known that there were genuine magic users who could tell the future, most notably magic users at the temple of Delphi in ancient Greece.

Notably it was the Romans who actually solidified a lot of what is and isn't known about divination through the practice of augury. Unlike what came before, Roman magic users were able to demonstrate consistent results and their magic was one that could be spread and taught a lot more effectively than the previous tradition of people seemingly stumbling onto it.

As time went on, divination primarily evolved with technology and new materials and developments that came about. Through the use of lots, thrown knuckle bones, tarot and other methods, what was initially set in motion via augury expanded more generally in the middle ages and various aspects of divination became more common. Similarly as things like mirrors became more commonplace, the act of scrying evolved and became more common place.

The twentieth century actually saw a massive improvement in the field of scrying. Not only do things like television screens often make extraordinary symbolic materials for viewing something far away, but the development of long range cameras, phone lines, radio and more have enabled many more modern magic users to advance the field by mimicking modern technology through magical means. There's actually a strong amount of debate amongst magical scholars over the long term effects of the introduction of the L-Phone as it's quite likely to define a new wave of alterations to divination in younger magic users who will be shaped and inspired by the devices.

Other Types of Divination
Many, many cultures all around the world had strong traditions regarding various takes on divination. Notably ancient Mesoamerican civilizations invented a complicated and deep system of divination. The conquistadors proceeded to wipe out most of the traditions but what remains is known to still be very accurate and impactful. What little is known of the tradition is that it often was linked to the movement of solar bodies in order to assess the divinations.

Japan developed their own unique system of divination known as Onmyodo, which in turn was derived from many Chinese aspects and elements that were refined further in Japan. China in turn has an absolutely massive history over the development of divination with a wide array of techniques that most notably exploded and flourished during the Ming dynasty, though some methods, like Ba-Zi, can find their origin significantly earlier in the Han dynasty if not even further back.

India has its own traditions and techniques with regards to divination, including a technique which marries divination to invocation by way of deliberately enabling a god to possess the magic users body in order to provide knowledge they otherwise could not obtain. They also have a strong tradition of oracles.

A notable and interesting figure to talk about when considering alternate forms of divination is the kind used by the alien Atrocitus. Atrocitus' magical techniques derive from schools of thought and rituals practiced and shared in the now dead Empire of Tears. Atrocitus is the sole surviving individual with knowledge of these magical techniques and has used them to grant himself visions of the future. Atrocitus' magic notably allows him to see an absolutely massive array of possible futures. While no one future he observes is set in stone, Atrocitus can effectively use divination to predict the likelihood of certain outcomes and winnow down the future to what he prefers the most.

Blackest Night
Blackest Night is a concept derived specifically from divination. While people on earth do not necessarily know it by that term, "Blackest Night" is the term used by the greater array of the cosmos. Blackest Night is essentially the point at which all magical future sight and prediction of the future ceases to function and all the magic user can observe is unending darkness. The exact date of blackest night shifts with time, causing many people, especially those on earth, to suspect that it's a limitation of the magic user rather than an external force.

Divination in the Modern Day
Divination has both become more and less ubiquitous in the modern era. Various tricks like scrying have become both more common and more advanced due to the advent of technology skewing magic user's mindset and understanding of the world to a more connected one, but at the same time a lot of the tradition around prophecy has been lost or significantly weakened. Furthermore divination is a bit of a contentious field because there are strong disagreements within the magical community at large over what exactly is and isn't divination and how exactly it functions from individual to individual.

In the modern day Madame Xanadu remains the most powerful user of divination with probably the deepest understanding over a wide range of areas of divination and a unique grasp over the flow of time and knowledge. Madame Xanadu's full potential is largely unknown to the magical community at large though, especially her connection to Merlin. Almost every magic user has learned some type of divination in the modern era. The other major notable user of divination is Atrocitus, who make use of it to manipulate people and to act as an optimization machine for his actions in combat to ensure he ends up winning whatever fight he ends up in.

General Functions of Divination
Below is a short list of various things that divination can be used for, not including the more fringe cases. What is listed below is merely a small sampling of the things that can be done with divination
  • Scrying to look at specific locations
  • Searching for individuals in a set range with specific characteristics
  • Tracking down individuals
  • Finding objects via magical tracking
  • Seeing through walls
  • Being able to see the past
  • Prediction of the future via interpretation of magically influenced future materials
  • Making prophecies
  • Magically viewing a series of possible futures
  • Being able to identify names upon viewing them
  • Magically absorbing information from a book directly into the mind
  • Observing the future
  • Identifying the kind of magic used through magical means to give an idea about the caster
  • Seeing through illusions and detecting shapeshifters
  • Magical mind reading
 
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