It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure

Few things I really don't want to use Sample Space on closing the distance since that's simple enough that Lilly can probably do it herself so no need to use valuable SS time to do it especially since we're unbalanced already. Better to use SS on exorcising Abby and maybe pulling her into the Dream. This also means we probably shouldn't try and force use any of our other Cleaver abilities since it might break things.

Second I don't think we should specify what we're using the minor relation slots on since we barely have any idea of what it does and I think letting Lilly pick it herself would be better. Also we should make sure Lilly doesn't hesitate to use the slot on Myrah since we can always put it back on afterwards.

Third maybe trying to tie in Primordial Chassis into the Petal, Evie and Subversion anti-Stop Combo would be a good idea? Since Chassis should be helpful in noselling this kind of thing at least partly.
 
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I think figuring out the poem is supposed to be one of our challenges this update, but if we don't, we should absolutely share it around.
 
I think Ply the Line would make our odds of succeeding in all aspects better. In the sense of guiding Lilly to act in a way that protects her family and distracts Valerie from making things worse.
Closing distance is easy enough with the new {magnify} and a {stutter ping} could potentially stun Valery. After that showing our hands into her ribs while keeping her alive with some essence stuff, from {sympathetic linkage} to bedrock things.
And then hopefully we have a sample space half a second or something to get the impossible solution.

Unless Lilly can do the separation without an Deus ex machina. She might, considering how she has dealt with dungeon connection to dad, and even healed that soldier from the brink.
 
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Few things I really don't want to use Sample Space on closing the distance since that's simple enough that Lilly can probably do it herself so no need to use valuable SS time to do it especially since we're unbalanced already. Better to use SS on exorcising Abby and maybe pulling her into the Dream. This also means we probably shouldn't try and force use any of our other Cleaver abilities since it might break things.

Just to be clear because it was brought up; my plan use {Sample Space} just to avoid any problem of multi-tasking and to be as fast as possible when we start to attack Valerie, not to close the distance.
 
Under Relations:
"I could tie the lifeforce of others into myself so that none could pass from this life so long as I still drew breath."

@TheBiggerFish - Think we can bind family to us in this way right off the bat to prevent any attempts to kill them before we can silence Valerie?
That is an explicit ability we can use our major relations slot on at 1 person/slot. Nothing we can do right here and right now.

Hrrm...So I'm not sure what the 'Child' was speaking of with these, but that second poem sounds as if it could be speaking of Lily, and the day she 'died', when the father went to Madam, and learned her heart no longer beat in her chest....
The first one though? I can only guess.
I think the poem is about Dad actually. Everything fits even better.
The poem is most likely about Zach. As far as we know at least two of Dad's sisters are dead, so one too many, while Zach's upcoming Inverted Ethos has a very high likelihood of ending with his death.

We're probably going to need Sample Space to untie her from Abby. It's got to be more difficult then what we did with pops.
Theoretically enveloping her heart with our domain should purge Abby, but I agree that she's probably going to put up a fight that we should have Sample Space ready for.
 
Can we use our power to deafen ourselves? I don't know if we can remove our own eardrums. Flash growing a vine tendril from our hair into our ears to block sound seems like it might work too.

There are probably other options. It's so hard to keep track of what all the powers do. Is there a document anywhere with the descriptions of everything we've got? I can't spare the time to go back through every post.

Subversion has a note that states that changing ourselves including our perceptions is one of the main things that it can do. Why would we try to physically destroy our eardrums when we could instead subvert our understanding of language itself. Hearing the words wouldn't matter if we had no understanding of what those words mean.
 
...I'm pretty sure Ply the Line is one of those "automatically on" things?
It is not. It requires moderate concentration.

Like the rock experiment, Lilly threw it to the left but surged it with {ply the line} to land on the right. High fracture as madam demonstrated with cups.

Used right Lilly can surge concordance, or channel, trough herself to guide herself to take the right actions, the right way, with the right timing, leading to our goal. Believe this is the low fracture approach.

Or well if I understood concordance right then it's more like smudging and erasing mistakes. Like proofreading, outlining, and editing text.
 
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Yeah, if you forced me to commit to a pick right now, I'd say the poem is about Zach. I agreed with Quest's take on it earlier in the discussion, but going line by line...

His own blood condemns him.
Two ways to read this, I think: A family member(s) are actually condeming him, perceived or otherwise. Or by a quirk of fate he is part of a family where circumstances themselves doomed him from the start. I think either can apply to Zach here. The first requires some liberty here that the poem is taking the perspective of Zach and his belief that Yolun favored Lilly and ignored him. The latter that by having been born into a Bloomling/Lillyspiracy family he was fated to develop his inferiority complex and jealousy.

Hours forgotten grow slim.
This is the one line I'm least sure of in its meaning. Time running out? The inversion?

The boy calls for his kin.

Sounds like Zach during Lilly's not-death/disappearance given the next line.

But the only answer, her sin.

Lilly "returning" as if in answer to the above line (I just had a terrible thought, hold a moment.) The sin being Lilly's running away and/or the multi-ethos depending o how you look at it and from whose perspective.

Woe the day, to be so scorned.

Might be that the even further intensifying focus on Lilly upon her return deepened Zach's issues over being passed over for her.

The order they came, twas not which they left.

The line of the day. If it's about Zach then this has to be future-tense. Lilly is the firstborn, so it can't refer to her actions; it would have to be a prediction about one of her brothers.

Four to be born, yet three to hold breath.

This line establishes that we should probably be looking for quartets/trios to examine to decode this. In the Zach/Lilly case, four children, and given Lilly's modifications and abilities I'm pretty sure she's left the point where she's required to breathe if she had to. Or if this is specifically about the events of her disappearance then I'm pretty sure she wasn't breathing that month. Or at least Zach didn't think she was, of course.

Woe the day, to be so mourned.

In the case of "It's Zach" I think it's reinforcing that him seeing the reaction of Yolun to Lilly's death helped start the sequence that has led to today, that the mourning of Lilly reinforced his inferiority to him.

Now, to my "bad thought": "The boy calls for his kin." What if Zach did something similar to Lilly in the True Song episode - call for help from anyone to please bring his sister back. We know his Ethos was "auctioned to Manoth" did he cut a deal either knowingly/unknowingly to assist her? Given all the stuff around Lilly I don't think so but the thought creeped into my mind, especially since it's a poem coming from an entity that's obviously looking to form a contract with us. The most straightforward reading of all this, if Zach, is indeed a reference to his imminent inversion.

Now, as for alternate theories on the subject of the poem if it's not Zach. As I said, Yolun was my first thought too, but I checked back on when he told Lilly his family situation and here's what we have:

He steels himself, then goes on, a strange hollowness rings through his voice, "Clarrisa, Penelope and little Cherish. These were my sisters three. Oh my, its been so long since I've said their names." You've never seen your father cry, it's poetically fitting that you don't see his face as a wipes something from his eye. After a long pregnant pause, he recites to you a list of the most morbid sort. A list that carries the weight of decades old grief, "Clarissa was the first, ran through by a noble in the street for speaking back. Cherish second. The infection took her after she lost her hands. Penelope was last, I don't even know where, she simply didn't come home one night. Then finally Mother, she drank a full cup of crushed Night's Lily. I knew then that if I didn't leave Erisdale, it would be my grave too."
As far as I can tell, we don't know Yolun's place in this. Is he the firstborn? In the middle? That he calls Cherish "little Cherish" makes me think she's the youngest. We know Clarissa dies first, then Cherish. That probably confirms the deaths were out of birth order... but that's two deaths that seem pretty difficult to say Yolun was mistaken on to fit the "three hold breath" line of the poem. I suppose if you take the infection to mean the Black Lung it could be a reference to that but I don't think so. Taken together I think this makes it unlikely to refer to Yolun.

Expanding our search more generally. Bloomlings: Liatris, Lilly, Marigold. I think those are the three we know of. Just add a fourth and it could work. Deific Fragments: I actually think this is eliminated. We have the above list, plus an implied victim of Valerie's from her original interlude, and probably Valerie herself which puts us at at least 5. Unless that unnamed fourth was also a Bloomling. Past that I'm not sure. Myah doesn't have enough siblings to fit, I think and I can't off-hand think of any other categories like Bloomling to use here.
 
[X] Plan Strike Fast
-[X] [STOP.] Start to use {Subversion} to subvert the order you have received into a "stop me" so that you may be able to act against her. Try to give to petal the ability to reactivate your powers and ethea so that she may try to bypass the limits Valerie puts on you. Use {Cessation Rivet} to hide any possible move until you are ready. If needed, focus your mind on the fact she is being manipulated by a spirit, which means her order definitely had some second meaning hidden in it.
--[X] When you are ready or it is clear things would go for the worst if you don't act immediately, activate {Sample Space} and mantain it active until you achieve these objectives:
---[X] You need to set yourself up to "jump" the girl as fast as you can, so that you could end your sample space activation when you are practically sure you are following a trajectory that is going to reach Valerie and achieve the other objectives while trying to not completerly consume {Sample Space}'s time; your objective is to set up things so that you may touch the girl's heart and do what {The Ladder} told you at the beginning of this day
---[X] Make it sure you are going to follow your move with a rapid attack with your {Heartstaff} to her head or neck; your objective is to distract Valerie and her spirit from your true goal;
----[X] If it may seem better, throw the {Heartsaff} to negate some of Valerie's room to move;
---[X] Follow the instructions {The Ladder} told you before entering your house;
---[X] Deactivate {Sample Space} when all of these objectives have been achieved if possible.
--[X] Once you reach Valerie's body, make the {Heartstaff} disappear just before it can reach her (if it is still in your hands).
--[X] Touch Valerie's heart and follow the instructions that {The Ladder} gave you.
--[X] If really needed, once your domain finds her heart, activate {Sample Space} to achieve your goals.
--[X] If you think it may be needed, reveal Evie to the world at any moment and let her help you directly in your efforts.
[X] [ACG] I Rejected the Trial.
[X] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.
[X] [BBLU] Her blood burned hot and thick, the enemy knew to avoid its scalding spray.
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart

Posting my plan again just in case.
 
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Woe the day, to be so scorned.
Might be that the even further intensifying focus on Lilly upon her return deepened Zach's issues over being passed over for her.

The order they came, twas not which they left.
The line of the day. If it's about Zach then this has to be future-tense. Lilly is the firstborn, so it can't refer to her actions; it would have to be a prediction about one of her brothers.

Four to be born, yet three to hold breath.
This line establishes that we should probably be looking for quartets/trios to examine to decode this. In the Zach/Lilly case, four children, and given Lilly's modifications and abilities I'm pretty sure she's left the point where she's required to breathe if she had to. Or if this is specifically about the events of her disappearance then I'm pretty sure she wasn't breathing that month. Or at least Zach didn't think she was, of course.

Woe the day, to be so mourned.
In the case of "It's Zach" I think it's reinforcing that him seeing the reaction of Yolun to Lilly's death helped start the sequence that has led to today, that the mourning of Lilly reinforced his inferiority to him.
I think you're overthinking this part. To me this reads as talking about the day Zach's inversion event happens. Right now the event that the world is planning for and that we're trying to derail is Zach gaining an Inverted Ethos and as a result of the shock dying somehow, the odds we were given for that by [Cleaver of Fate] are very high, so that's most likely what NULLERROR would be referencing here. I don't think NULLERROR is aware that we already know about this event coming up.
 
...Hang on, I recall an Author's Note back in 2.1, right after Lilly met Petal and started getting her numerous upgrades in bite-size pieces.

After that though excellent rolls adapting to your new nature and perceptions! It might not feel like it reading this chapter, but compared to how poorly so many parts could have gone, it went stellar. If you'd failed your progressive rolls, every power that hadn't yet been revealed would have been partially broken and Lilly would have been knocked out for another 1d10 days to recover. I didn't decide what the DC for Yolun not being fully possessed during that time would've been, but it would have been high.

...So, if we'd been knocked out, we'd be dead, right? Valerie has been a day away this whole time, and she wouldn't care about whether we were awake or not to harvest. Even if Lord Waters decided to pick up an unconscious Lilly, NOBODY but us has a counter for Valerie.

I mean, at least we SEE the gun pointing at us this time, but man, there's a lot of bullets that missed us.

Also:
YES, REALLY THOUGH!
 
In other topics: since we know now that Ethea have development paths they prefer I figured I'd compile a list of when the Divergence values of our Ethea changed to get a better idea what kind of development each Ethos prefers: (I've bolded the names of top level subskills)

Divergence changes
[Dream Within the Forest]:
L-- to L- upon gaining {Whispers of Life}, {Wood Memory}, {Attuned Locus} and {Thread Compression} in 1.5 (decrease)
L- to L-- upon gaining {Thread Compression}, {In thy Likeness}, {Wood Memory} and {Attuned Locus} in 1.7 (increase)
L-- to --M upon gaining {Collective Communion} and {Heartstaff} in 1.10 (increase)
--M to L-- upon gaining {The World Beneath} and doubling up levels in {Collective Communion} in 1.12 (decrease)
L-- to --M upon gaining {Riemannian Geometer} in 2.1 (increase)
--M to L-- upon developing {Slipstream} and {Magnify} in 2.4 (decrease)

[Cleaver of Fortune]:
M to -M upon ??? in 1.7 (uncovering {Ply the Line}?) (decrease)
-M to --M upon gaining {Contention Prognosticator} in 2.1 (decrease)

[Brave Blood]:
M to M- upon gaining {True Song}, {Harmony of Minds}, {Sung Counsel} and {Oversurge} in 1.8 (increase)
M- to M-- upon gaining {Objective Awareness}, {Counterforce} and {Stutter Ping} in 1.12 (increase)

As you can see [Dream Within The Forest] has done a lot of back and forth with our picks so far. The impression I'm getting is that subskills that draw more on the tree part of the Ethos ({In Thy Likeness}) or are drawn from outside of the Ethos ({Heartstaff} and {Riemannian Geometer}) tend to increase Divergence, while subskills that draw more on the connection and dream aspect ({Whispers of Life}, {The World Beneath} and developing {Slipstream} and {Magnify}) tend to decrease Divergence for [Dream Within The Forest]

[Cleaver Of Fortune] has only decreased its Divergence so far, which fits considering that our picks so far have been pretty on-brand for what's likely its intended purpose. I'm not sure what's caused the first decrease though, the only change in the sheet for the relevant update is that {Ply the Line} stopped being spoilered.

[Brave Blood] on the other hand has only increased its Divergence, which matches how disparate our choices have been so far, between singing, tracking, armor improvements and the {Pulse Surge} it's not a very consistent skill set. We don't know what happens when Ethea hit maximum Divergence yet, but considering that high Divergence increases the DC for Milestone Improvements I feel like we probably want to avoid it going to high. While there might be other mechanics that govern Divergence I feel like the subskills we pick is probably the one we have most influence over, so that should also guide our picks for [Brave Blood] in particular
 
[Brave Blood] on the other hand has only increased its Divergence, which matches how disparate our choices have been so far, between singing, tracking, armor improvements and the {Pulse Surge} it's not a very consistent skill set. We don't know what happens when Ethea hit maximum Divergence yet, but considering that high Divergence increases the DC for Milestone Improvements I feel like we probably want to avoid it going to high. While there might be other mechanics that govern Divergence I feel like the subskills we pick is probably the one we have most influence over, so that should also guide our picks for [Brave Blood] in particular
Maybe we could pull clues out of the entity behind Pithe in general?
 
Maybe we could pull clues out of the entity behind Pithe in general?
Pithe Ethea might be more susceptible to Divergence increasing as they are less flexible and thus less able to include divergent abilities in themselves? But generally I feel like Pithe's nature is more relevant to how the Ethos works than which powers fit into it. By which I mean that both Brave Blood and the Archery equivalent for example probably employ the same kind of surges/pulses of strength for example, but both of them would have very different subskills that utilise those surges. I think we need a better understanding on what [Brave Blood] is intended to be if we want to make picks that decrease divergence. The obvious answers are of course blood and bravery related. For me at least that's a good reason to pick
[ ] [BBLU] They thought the terror would stop her. Right up until she sliced them in two.
as that probably decreases Divergence.
On the contrary I think that
[ ] [BBLU] They retreated to gain respite, not realizing they were playing right into her hand.
is probably the option that increases Divergence to --H, as doesn't sound like it's much related to [Brave Blood]'s concepts at all.
 
Lilly could grab Valerie's heart straight up.
Lilly is superman. Lilly has bedrock powers to hold target in place, and pith powers for something similar, alongside extra force and leverage.

Like mortal combat. Lilly also gets biology info from tremendous mechanist.

Just one superspeed step with magnify away.
 
Pithe Ethea might be more susceptible to Divergence increasing as they are less flexible and thus less able to include divergent abilities in themselves? But generally I feel like Pithe's nature is more relevant to how the Ethos works than which powers fit into it. By which I mean that both Brave Blood and the Archery equivalent for example probably employ the same kind of surges/pulses of strength for example, but both of them would have very different subskills that utilise those surges. I think we need a better understanding on what [Brave Blood] is intended to be if we want to make picks that decrease divergence. The obvious answers are of course blood and bravery related. For me at least that's a good reason to pick
[ ] [BBLU] They thought the terror would stop her. Right up until she sliced them in two.
as that probably decreases Divergence.
On the contrary I think that
[ ] [BBLU] They retreated to gain respite, not realizing they were playing right into her hand.
is probably the option that increases Divergence to --H, as doesn't sound like it's much related to [Brave Blood]'s concepts at all.
You make a good argument. What do you think of the 'wait for the perfect moment and strike' option?
 
@Slyvena, are there any secret challenges this update?
I always throw in at least one. You guys did crazy good last chapter getting 2/3
I'm going to avoid saying how many are in each chapter from here on, but will let people know if they've exhausted them all.

Also, another question for @Slyvena (and my apologies about the pings): will our new Ethos kick in before or after our thirteen seconds? Need to know if I should work on contingencies.
It will pop in straight away. But do recall that most of your powers haven't historically come ready to plug'n'play.

Muh-hahaha!
 
Sympathetic linkage to the hostages would be a worthwhile move.

I think the statutes in the dream are a vector for the dream to grow into other people's dreams and reel them in.

Dreams can be shared.
 
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[X] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.
A little confused as to how "My Resolution, Thy Bedrock" abbreviates to BLU but okay.
[X] [BBLU] They thought the terror would stop her. Right up until she sliced them in two.
Divergence is bad right? I can't quite remember but I think so.
[X] [SES] Resolved in Flame
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
[X] [ACG] I Accepted the Trial.
[X] [STOP.] Plan Petal and Evie's Wonderful Surprise Hugs

I really do want a mana ethos but the chance to possibly hit two sources we're missing in one Ethos is too good to pass up, and I'm not super excited about this one anyway.


Of course, the most powerful synergy of all would be to one day combine [Shine, my Gentle Heart] and [A Loyal Steed] together, turn into a horse and embark on "It's a Girl's World - - Friendship is Magic edition" ;)

Win condition would be finding the Apotheotic [Elements of Harmony] Ethos.
Boo.

You make a good argument. What do you think of the 'wait for the perfect moment and strike' option?
Personally I avoided that one. It's perfectly valid but
Be the vaunted knight standing in the gap against the endless waves of unspeakable horror seeking to destroy the lands of men. Awaken the call of adventure that sings forth from your own blood and propel your body to impossible heights. This Ethos feels different to the first time it was offered, your tenuous connection has strengthened and solidified.
doesn't seem very in theme?
 
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...also, why the spork is Myah's hair warm? That's...What on earth about her Ethos is doing that? Why? (Also, we have heat vision now, which is really cool.)

So, thoughts: Not-Jeremy could be another godling, one corrupted by the Maw. He sure seems to have a Domain.
 
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