It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure

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[X] Plan: And with Swiftness--Swiftness Beyond Measure...
-[X] {Subversion} You understand, nobody wants to be a murderer, she clearly said "Stop Me" just now, you'll do just that. (Altering a command by a single syllable)
--[X] Emergency Backup: Hand Control to Petal if you're running out of time, have her execute the next step as your proxy using {Relations}
-[X] Enter full Domain Perception mode, the Ladder warned you before and you ignored it, not twice--invoke {Sample Space} to guide your approach--at your full speed, that should be considerably less than even a second at this distance, gag her and cover her eyes to the best of your ability--don't be afraid to knock out some teeth or bloody her if need be, you can't afford to be gentle and you can fix it later. Once her voice is bound and her eyes aren't looking at you, follow {The Ladder}'s earlier instructions--extrude your Domain into her Heart and sever the occupying Entity.
-[X] When her voice is bound, extend Essence Links to your family to help handle the stresses of what she did, while you work on a means to break the command. Once confident in their safety, utilize {Slipstream} to deposit Valerie into Petal's care--the Ladder said the {Attuned Locus} and not the Dreamspace--and you don't think you can force someone in there yet anyway.
-[X] Everything is on the table here. This is not the time or place to be holding back.
...Okay this sounds like good plan!
 
Alectai said:
.
An alternate name for this plan would be "You've committed one of the five classic blunders! Like never betting against a Sicilian when Death is on the line, but only slightly less famous is 'Don't be a squishy caster who's in melee range with a Pithe Warrior!' " but that was a bit too long for comfort.
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My name is Lilly Silas. You will not kill my father.
 
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Oh, something else I was wondering at when we got Silva's Concordance explanation was thinking back to Lilly's ant experiments. I wonder if the difficulty she was having in making anything but the smallest changes was because she was essentially holding the lever at the wrong end and so was getting basically no leverage in changing things. In her ant fate change experiment and rock tossing tests I'm guessing she was probably thinking in terms of the present or immediate-future, like "the few seconds it takes for a rock to be tossed up and fall down" immediate.

If Concordance really does work better if you try and act on the future by acting on the future's "memory" of its past (the observer's present) she might have yielded better results if she instead focused on points in time well beyond any of her experiments. She wouldn't think of this because I don't think it's intuitive (Final Fantasy XIII-2's "If you change the future, you change the past" view of time travel vindicated at last) to think of time in that manner. She still got some small changes because she was surging all her Concordance "weight" at small things, but it may have been the most inefficient way to accomplish it.

Of perhaps some note, in the ant test before the rock tossing one, her success in changing fate comes when she is acting further in the future when she moves an ant's death from the original 3 days to 5.
 
I suspect with Ply the Line, we can do similar shenanigans like Madame Silva did but more like "How the hell did you kick me, I knew I should have dodged that" thanks to concordance.

The difficulty was probably more that it wasnt something Lilly was doing. The Cleaver of Fate is supposed to be Lilly after all.
 
Half Moon said:
Can I suggest we include quickly rupturing our eardrums and eyes in that plan?
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Is that a thing we can even do?

Like, we need to basically speedblitz Valerie as hard as possible, that we remove her ability to speak before she even realizes that we've broken free. I say gag because that offers the full freedom of Lilly's own creativity with her, but obvious solutions are bits of her dress, those flowers she made being grown out, and so forth.

The thing I get from her is that the very idea that when she says something it becomes law has kind of become her own bedrock in life, and that we're functionally dismissed as a threat for now--the point is to exploit that tendency to outspeed her reaction time and lean on our Pithe enhanced strength and rambunctious peasant girl powers over puffy noblelady powers to literally wrestle her into submission and cover her mouth.

After all, we need to be in grappling distance to get the range to extrude our Domain over her mouth. Even if we just cover her mouth and eyes while we trip her with our legs, that's enough.

TL;DR: Valerie has never run into meaningful opposition before, her Ethos is just too powerful for anyone to really get a say--she just says a single syllable and the fight is over. We need to exploit that overwhelming gap in combat experience. Which is doubled by the fact she gave us such a shitty half-assed command (Which, again, has been consistent across her characterization. Things go wrong because she gives shitty commands that do things she wasn't expecting)

Like, we would be fucked if she was saying this from the other side of a room. Covering three meters in the blink of an eye though while covered by Sample Space? Lilly pulled that off at least once before in a tenth of a second, and that was Before she had {Perfect Proprioception}
 
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Alectai said:
[X] Plan: And with Swiftness--Swiftness Beyond Measure...
-[X] {Subversion} You understand, nobody wants to be a murderer, she clearly said "Stop Me" just now, you'll do just that. (Altering a command by a single syllable)
--[X] Emergency Backup: Hand Control to Petal if you're running out of time, have her execute the next step as your proxy using {Relations}
-[X] Enter full Domain Perception mode, the Ladder warned you before and you ignored it, not twice--invoke {Sample Space} to guide your approach--at your full speed, that should be considerably less than even a second at this distance, gag her and cover her eyes to the best of your ability--don't be afraid to knock out some teeth or bloody her if need be, you can't afford to be gentle and you can fix it later. Once her voice is bound and her eyes aren't looking at anything you care for, follow {The Ladder}'s earlier instructions--extrude your Domain into her Heart and sever the occupying Entity.
-[X] When her voice is bound (Or ideally, she knocked out in some fashion, the point is that she be neutralized), extend Essence Links to your family to help handle the stresses of what she did, while you work on a means to break the command. Once confident in their safety, utilize {Slipstream} to deposit Valerie into Petal's care--the Ladder said the {Attuned Locus} and not the Dreamspace--and you don't think you can force someone in there yet anyway.
-[X] Everything is on the table here. This is not the time or place to be holding back.

An alternate name for this plan would be "You've committed one of the five classic blunders! Like never betting against a Sicilian when Death is on the line, but only slightly less famous is 'Don't be a squishy caster who's in melee range with a Pithe Warrior!' " but that was a bit too long for comfort.

That aside, I would point out that "Valerie has historically been shown to be very dumb and her power tends to do exactly what she says to the best of reality's ability to execute it". She said Stop and everything that could stop has stopped. The order is being followed to perfection.

Adding a single extra syllable though changes the context to "Stop ME", and makes her power work for us instead.
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I wonder if Sample Space could enable us to throw something within reach (maybe a shoe by the door?) across the room to knock her out with in one shot without killing her? That sounds like the sort of shot that's possible with infinite tries.

If it's possible, it's faster and therefore less risk than charging across the room. She could conceivably get words out that way.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
I wonder if Sample Space could enable us to throw something across the room to knock her out with in one shot without killing her? That sounds like the sort of shot that's possible with infinite tries.

If it's possible, it's faster and therefore less risk than charging across the room. She could conceivably get words out that way.
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Damage wouldn't be resolved within the one second that is our maximum 'Dangerous' pace. There's a reason Swiftness only uses {Sample Space} to clinch our approach and otherwise relies on Lilly grappling to shut her voice down. She covered roughly comparably distance and launched an attack within 1/10th of a second back in Heartbreak, and 1/10th shouldn't significantly unbalance us.
 
Hmmm, at only 3 meters or so it should be possible to just turn the Heartstaff into a prehensile tendril and wrap it around her head right from where we are. Then pull the same trick as with the wolf and expand it inside her mouth until she can't even move her jaw anymore. She certainly doesn't seem to have any abilities that would let her bite through solid wood, after all, and that would be the single fastest strike we could manifest most likely.
 
sheep-dodger said:
Just do what we did to the bad woofie and manifest the Heart Staff into her face and then grow it to fill her mouth/throat.
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That's a heck of a lot to do on short notice. Especially since we can't exactly see her and we don't know what effect it'll have.

Actually, good question

@Slyvena

I presume Lilly has an unranked score in "Rambunctious Peasant Girl Brawling?"

Or alternately, by putting in "Gag them", she'll intelligently use her abilities to make that happen without us needing to micro the specific method?
 
[X] [ACG] I Accepted the Trial.
[X] Plan: And with Swiftness--Swiftness Beyond Measure...
-[X] {Subversion} You understand, nobody wants to be a murderer, she clearly said "Stop Me" just now, you'll do just that. (Altering a command by a single syllable)
--[X] Emergency Backup: Hand Control to Petal if you're running out of time, have her execute the next step as your proxy using {Relations}
-[X] Enter full Domain Perception mode, the Ladder warned you before and you ignored it, not twice--invoke {Sample Space} to guide your approach--at your full speed, that should be considerably less than even a second at this distance, gag her and cover her eyes to the best of your ability--don't be afraid to knock out some teeth or bloody her if need be, you can't afford to be gentle and you can fix it later. Once her voice is bound and her eyes aren't looking at anything you care for, follow {The Ladder}'s earlier instructions--extrude your Domain into her Heart and sever the occupying Entity.
-[X] When her voice is bound (Or ideally, she knocked out in some fashion, the point is that she be neutralized), extend Essence Links to your family to help handle the stresses of what she did, while you work on a means to break the command. Once confident in their safety, utilize {Slipstream} to deposit Valerie into Petal's care--the Ladder said the {Attuned Locus} and not the Dreamspace--and you don't think you can force someone in there yet anyway.
-[X] Everything is on the table here. This is not the time or place to be holding back.
[X] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.
[X] [BBLU] They thought the terror would stop her. Right up until she sliced them in two.
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Say, if we have a Relations connection with someone, does it passively bring it to our attention if they're in trouble? I'm wondering if we could detect signs through the bond like high emotions or the physiological manifestations of things like panic or pain.
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Possibly, you probably need a solid Flow Ethos to start figuring that sort of high fidelity feedback out. (Or some higher level Essence powers and {Holistics} Tier 2)

Alectai said:
I presume Lilly has an unranked score in "Rambunctious Peasant Girl Brawling?"
Or alternately, by putting in "Gag them", she'll intelligently use her abilities to make that happen without us needing to micro the specific method?
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You can trust Lilly to perform at least at the level she did in the Forest. The situation comes with far less time to get in the right headspace, but she is a greater fighter more in tune with her body than she was then.
 
[X] [ACG] I Accepted the Trial.
Honestly, neither choice here seems good. At least we'll get some reward with this.
[X] Plan: And with Swiftness--Swiftness Beyond Measure...
[x] [BBLU] She watched. She waited. Still and silent. When the opening came, she moved.
Seems useful for putting the above into plave
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
Too good to be true, perhaps, but it is the best choice we have here.
 
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@Alectai - What about riveting her voice still in addition to physically gagging her? We might be able to get that into play before we get our hands on her.
 
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[X] [BLU] Firm as a mountain. For the needy, she had strength to spare.

[X] [ACG] I Accepted the Trial.
Honestly, neither chose here seems good. At least we'll get some reward with this.
[X] Plan: And with Swiftness--Swiftness Beyond Measure...
[x] [BBLU] She watched. She waited. Still and silent. When the opening came, she moved.
Seems useful for putting the above into plave
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
 
Alectai said:
That's a heck of a lot to do on short notice. Especially since we can't exactly see her and we don't know what effect it'll have.
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bashing her teeth in with a charge and then shoving the heart staff down her throat isn't that much more complex than grappling her I don't think. It's also something we've done before while sitting on a horse and riding.
There's no indication Valerie has any kind of pain tolerance outside of whatever she might have prepared beforehand btw. We haven't seen if she uses any kind of self-strengthening Oath ability, the feeling I'm getting is that her power is so OP that she never had to properly prepare herself for combat because she's so used to just waltzing in and telling people to kill themselves. So I'd be in favour of an approach that very deliberately inflicts quite a bit of pain in the initial charge to throw her off-balance.
 
Mmm.

The issue at hand, of course, is that speed is what we need above all else. We're in melee distance and we're a Pithe Warrior for all that our Essence stuff generally takes center stage. Matthew even told us something that's important to keep in mind when he was training us

"Mathew's fine," he corrects, unaware of your internal monologue, "At the moment your biggest lack is any form of enhanced reflex or combat cognition to put your considerable physical traits to best use. A more experienced or coordination enhanced fighter would simply outmanoeuvre and stab you through the eye. We're going to drill you hard on that today, and if you feel your Ethos expanding in that direction, push toward it."
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Mathew shakes his head at your question. "It is ill advised to narrow an Ethos so early in your development, each significant dynamic of your martial style left at baseline human is a lifelong weakness even those far less developed than you will be able to target and exploit." He denotes weakness by slashing a thin blade through the air as he says it.
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Secondly, go hard from the start. {Pulse Surge} can't ramp up or down from full effectiveness that quickly, so toggling during true combat is unlikely to ever be a wise option. Once active, aim to overwhelm your opponent with a constant flurry of overpowering strikes as quickly as possible.
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Don't faff about, for all that she's extended in to horrifying lengths, Valerie is still a one trick pony, and that trick is not "Moves at anime speeds and has superhuman strength". Even more importantly, she's never faced meaningful opposition in her life by all indications, she's already dismissed Lilly as a threat, we need to win before she realizes that's changed.

The plan ultimately boils down to "Try and alter the parameters of the order to something that lets us act, failing that, put Petal in the driver's seat as a proxy and have her do it. Then speedblitz backed by {Sample Space} to make sure she doesn't get to react until we're right in her face, and don't give her an inch to talk until we've purged the parasite and successfully neutralized her.

Remember our training, this is what it was for
 
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For the sake of completeness, it should be mentioned that we do have the option of deciding that trying to save Valerie is too risky because who knows what other powers she might have, and so we should just smash her head like a melon before she can speak.

I'm not leaning towards that option, but it's worth at least considering.
 
I'm surprised to see so many votes for the Trial. It looks likely to be some sort of cruel trap to me, because that's the sort of thing the entity finds entertaining.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
For the sake of completeness, it should be mentioned that we do have the option of deciding that trying to save Valerie is too risky because who knows what other powers she might have, and so we should just smash her head like a melon before she can speak.

I'm not leaning towards that option, but it's worth at least considering.
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Remember what we just learned this very update.

The safest approach is rarely the best one.

I wouldn't be surprised if killing her--as a noblegirl of good standing--leaves a mark that can be tracked by scary-ass people.

Now, since I'm at it, some thonks on other things.

[ ] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
is a dream come true. It gives us the coveted Flow Source while also being socially focused--completing our build. That it later is likely to expand into Oath as well is just icing on the cake. That it's also the Full Paladin option means I have no choice but to vote for this.

[ ] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.

Seems like a resurgence effect? "That when your back is to the wall and you're out of options, you get one last burst of help?" Useful.

[ ] [BBLU] Her blood burned hot and thick, the enemy knew to avoid its scalding spray.

Now, here's where people are likely going "Why dat Alectai?"

I say "Why not?"

Lilly is horrifyingly hard to kill for her relative age, and we won't be able to avoid fights forever. She is going to take hits, and they are going to hurt--we have many layered defenses though that mitigate much of this.

This is a... Firm Discouragement from doing so.

[Brave Blood] appears to be all about being the first into battle, the last to leave, and the one who's heart burns brightest and hottest in the press. This seems to fit that theme as opposed to the more tactical options--which as we've seen are not wrong but do increase Divergence because Brave Blood is about being the front line champion, and we've been taking a lot of tactical support powers out of it.

So let's lean back into the themes and get an auto counter on anyone who actually hurts Lilly.


TaliesinSkye said:
I'm surprised to see so many votes for the Trial. It looks likely to be some sort of cruel trap to me, because that's the sort of thing the entity finds entertaining.
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The Entity holds all the cards here, he established he's not bound by some "Can't hurt people uninvited" clause given what he did, and apparently whatever's going on with him is so bad that Evie striking back against him would have been bad for her, which suggests he's a Transcendent--or something on the same level as them.

Concordance's data also suggests he's been around for a good while, given how it has enough historical data to make a profile. So he's probably not associated with the Maw.

Notably, he also seems to spit out Prophecies accidentally, which seemed to annoy him further.

I... Halfway suspect he's one of the 'Oopsie' stories from the early days of Ethos stuff, where someone hit the right combination of unintented interactions to escalate to peer status with the Transcendents, and then spent his time being a shit-disturbing trickster god.

And with the chaos going on in the world, there's nothing around running herd on him.
 
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