My thought process is we're already in the trap. It's going to fuck with us one way or the other, might as well spring it.
It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
If it really had control it wouldn't be asking, though. It gains something by us saying 'yes'. I don't want to give it whatever power that will grant it.
Half Moon
In the end, there is no end.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It seems likely that it can ruin our life either way. This one will just be more fun for it.
Considering she butchered her own family I don't think this is particularly likely. If they can they can also track the trail of destruction she left and the dead watchmen right outside. Anyone who's going to burn us for this is going to do so regardless.
Or it enjoys fucking with us. I don't think it has "control" but this makes our inevitable encounter with it more of a known quantity.
- Location
- Somewhere.
@Alectai I'd like to point your attention to Plan Petal And Evie's Wonderful Surprise Hugs in the hopes that we may both come up with better plans by taking the best elements of each.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
We already know it'll let us go if we say no. Perhaps it will try to screw with us later, but we're growing exponentially. We'll deal with it then as best as we're able. I'm concerned that letting it set up a 'trial' could force some undesired changes onto Lilly; it seemed to want to try to infest her once, after all.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
[X] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.
Being a goody two shoes has it's downsides (see- divination and why being predictable is bad)... but fundamentally, we have far too much good to do, to just stop.
[X] [BBLU] They thought the terror would stop her. Right up until she sliced them in two.
Oh. So it was a panic DC, not a memetic effect. I still think there might be something up their sleeve, mind you!
... But right now, our biggest enemy is nothing more than fear itself.
What a great ability it is, that allows us to kill the mind killer.
[X] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.
Being a goody two shoes has it's downsides (see- divination and why being predictable is bad)... but fundamentally, we have far too much good to do, to just stop.
[X] [BBLU] They thought the terror would stop her. Right up until she sliced them in two.
Oh. So it was a panic DC, not a memetic effect. I still think there might be something up their sleeve, mind you!
... But right now, our biggest enemy is nothing more than fear itself.
What a great ability it is, that allows us to kill the mind killer.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
While I doubt it'll be useless I don't know how much of a discouragement scalding blood will be to the sort of super-powered fighters we're likely to face. Granted, thanks to [Dream Within The Forest] Lilly doesn't really need all that blood, so this is a defensive move that doesn't have any real cost for us attached outside of the opportunity cost, but if we are looking for a Divergence reduction then I think that the Fearlessness option is at least equally likely to provide and is likely to be more useful to us and our friends (considering we can farm out our skills to others thanks to Essence and now Essence constructs). Going with "[BBLU] They thought the terror would stop her. Right up until she sliced them in two." means not just fearlessness for ourselves, but also for our allies.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Good also has strong upsides.
In the short term, evil and selfish choices are superior, but Good compounds over time--we've already seen the start of it in this update--it convinced Madam Silva to throw her lot in with us, it locked Captain Martin in as an ally, the people of the Watch and the City respect us now.
It's small now, but Good spirals upwards and vastly outstrips evil and selfish in the end.
Half Moon
In the end, there is no end.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Lilly: "So, I have one more question."
NULLERROR: "So I can see. Ask it carefully enough, and the answer received may be useful to you.
Lilly: "What kind of a name is NULLERROR? Are you trying to suggest you don't make mistakes?
NULLERROR: "Ah, that one. Don't worry, it'll make sense, oh, a few thousand years from your time? Then I'll have to change it again, of course."
NULLERROR: "So I can see. Ask it carefully enough, and the answer received may be useful to you.
Lilly: "What kind of a name is NULLERROR? Are you trying to suggest you don't make mistakes?
NULLERROR: "Ah, that one. Don't worry, it'll make sense, oh, a few thousand years from your time? Then I'll have to change it again, of course."
- Location
- Who Knows Where
[X] Plan: And with Swiftness--Swiftness Beyond Measure...
-[X] {Subversion} You understand, nobody wants to be a murderer, she clearly said "Stop Me" just now, you'll do just that. (Altering a command by a single syllable)
--[X] Emergency Backup: Hand Control to Petal if you're running out of time, have her execute the next step as your proxy using {Relations}
-[X] Enter full Domain Perception mode, the Ladder warned you before and you ignored it, not twice--invoke {Sample Space} to guide your approach--at your full speed, that should be considerably less than even a second at this distance, gag her and cover her eyes to the best of your ability--don't be afraid to knock out some teeth or bloody her if need be, you can't afford to be gentle and you can fix it later. Once her voice is bound and her eyes aren't looking at anything you care for, follow {The Ladder}'s earlier instructions--extrude your Domain into her Heart and sever the occupying Entity.
-[X] When her voice is bound (Or ideally, she knocked out in some fashion, the point is that she be neutralized), extend Essence Links to your family to help handle the stresses of what she did, while you work on a means to break the command. Once confident in their safety, utilize {Slipstream} to deposit Valerie into Petal's care--the Ladder said the {Attuned Locus} and not the Dreamspace--and you don't think you can force someone in there yet anyway.
-[X] Everything is on the table here. This is not the time or place to be holding back.
[X] Your family might be under orders to act if anything happens. Prepare to restrain your family with {Cessation Rivet} or {Current Lock}, or even {Stutter Ping} them. Apologize later. If they see Evie, swear them to secrecy as soon as possible.
[X] If anything feels suspicious from your Essence Senses or Domain Senses, fire off a {Stutter Ping} to check for traps or other surprises.
[X] If you can't render Valerie unconscious, try using {Cessation Rivet} to mute her like you did with Myah.
[X] If you have any seeds left from Myah's house, consider growing them into restraints.
^Just thought I'd bring up these points to add on. I'll try to think of anything else.
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
[X] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.
[X] [BBLU] Her blood burned hot and thick, the enemy knew to avoid its scalding spray.
[X] [ACG] I Accepted the Trial.
I like the plan, and I'm interested in the Blood option, especially with Marigold on the way.
On thinking about it, this is more of a duel than a fight, so Lilly needs speed and efficiency. Managing to balance {Sample Space} and {The Ladder} are the key factors-I'm still leery of Aboleath pulling something.
@TheBiggerFish Edit: Thank you, fixed.
-[X] {Subversion} You understand, nobody wants to be a murderer, she clearly said "Stop Me" just now, you'll do just that. (Altering a command by a single syllable)
--[X] Emergency Backup: Hand Control to Petal if you're running out of time, have her execute the next step as your proxy using {Relations}
-[X] Enter full Domain Perception mode, the Ladder warned you before and you ignored it, not twice--invoke {Sample Space} to guide your approach--at your full speed, that should be considerably less than even a second at this distance, gag her and cover her eyes to the best of your ability--don't be afraid to knock out some teeth or bloody her if need be, you can't afford to be gentle and you can fix it later. Once her voice is bound and her eyes aren't looking at anything you care for, follow {The Ladder}'s earlier instructions--extrude your Domain into her Heart and sever the occupying Entity.
-[X] When her voice is bound (Or ideally, she knocked out in some fashion, the point is that she be neutralized), extend Essence Links to your family to help handle the stresses of what she did, while you work on a means to break the command. Once confident in their safety, utilize {Slipstream} to deposit Valerie into Petal's care--the Ladder said the {Attuned Locus} and not the Dreamspace--and you don't think you can force someone in there yet anyway.
-[X] Everything is on the table here. This is not the time or place to be holding back.
[X] Your family might be under orders to act if anything happens. Prepare to restrain your family with {Cessation Rivet} or {Current Lock}, or even {Stutter Ping} them. Apologize later. If they see Evie, swear them to secrecy as soon as possible.
[X] If anything feels suspicious from your Essence Senses or Domain Senses, fire off a {Stutter Ping} to check for traps or other surprises.
[X] If you can't render Valerie unconscious, try using {Cessation Rivet} to mute her like you did with Myah.
[X] If you have any seeds left from Myah's house, consider growing them into restraints.
^Just thought I'd bring up these points to add on. I'll try to think of anything else.
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
[X] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.
[X] [BBLU] Her blood burned hot and thick, the enemy knew to avoid its scalding spray.
[X] [ACG] I Accepted the Trial.
I like the plan, and I'm interested in the Blood option, especially with Marigold on the way.
On thinking about it, this is more of a duel than a fight, so Lilly needs speed and efficiency. Managing to balance {Sample Space} and {The Ladder} are the key factors-I'm still leery of Aboleath pulling something.
@TheBiggerFish Edit: Thank you, fixed.
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- Location
- Somewhere.
This should be part of your "how do we deal with Stop" vote.
All of those should be part of the "how do we deal with Stop" vote.
@Kymecho can I interest you in Plan Petal And Evie's Wonderful Surprise Hugs? It has more of these things in it.
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- Location
- Who Knows Where
@TheBiggerFish Yes, you're right. Need to work on my categorising skills over here.
I'm conflicted, so I'll think it over. I particularly like your AC write-ins and factoring for immediately using the new inclusions to Lilly's benefit.
Not a fan of Lilly killing a young girl in front of her family though. I know these are extraordinary circumstances, and Valerie is possibly more dangerous than anything besides the Child so far.
I'd just rather leave that up to Lilly and the fog of war, so to speak, rather than plant that in Lilly's head.
I'm conflicted, so I'll think it over. I particularly like your AC write-ins and factoring for immediately using the new inclusions to Lilly's benefit.
Not a fan of Lilly killing a young girl in front of her family though. I know these are extraordinary circumstances, and Valerie is possibly more dangerous than anything besides the Child so far.
I'd just rather leave that up to Lilly and the fog of war, so to speak, rather than plant that in Lilly's head.
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One potential snag about any plan that plants the idea of lethal action in Lilly's head is that should [Shine, my Gentle Heart] win, I wonder if that may cause... conflicts. [Shine] seems more unique than most Ethea (or perhaps our Grasp has reached a point where we're only now seeing these kind of pre-reqs) in that it had character tests applied to it that Lilly had to pass to qualify for.
Lethal action here would run counter to [Shine]'s deal IMO and I'd be slightly concerned that if we have Lilly act with that kind of intention and get [Shine] simultaneously... weird stuff might happen. Bad weird. Like immediate high divergence or inversion risk. Granted, I know it's only being suggested as a measure of last resort but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about explicitly planting the idea in Lilly's head via vote.
Lethal action here would run counter to [Shine]'s deal IMO and I'd be slightly concerned that if we have Lilly act with that kind of intention and get [Shine] simultaneously... weird stuff might happen. Bad weird. Like immediate high divergence or inversion risk. Granted, I know it's only being suggested as a measure of last resort but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about explicitly planting the idea in Lilly's head via vote.
- Location
- Somewhere.
Fair point. Took that out.
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- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
I think Ply the Line even if we can consciously use it isn't going to be much help here since we've already unbalanced our Concordant weight today and we're going to be unbalancing it more with Sample Space. Cause I very doubt it's a free action without cost and we're already scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Hmm I think we've got to really figure out what Brave Blood is about since we probably don't want to see what high Divergence is like especially in a delicate situation like this where we're probably going to want to use Brave Blood powers.
First thing to note is spreadsheet stuff. In update 1.7 where we first got BB we had M++ Sync and L+ Divergence. But then the very next update (1.8) we dropped to M+ Sync and jumped to M+ Divergence. Something important to note is that this is the update we got True Song and Oversurge (concentration) something that Lilly notes BB isn't supposed to be able to do. I can't really find anything in the update itself that could be cause in the massive leap in divergence besides those.
Oversurge Notes said:
Hmm Pithe powers are meant to be inflexible so Oversurge allowing us to flexibly focus Pulse Surge is definitely not something that should happen. Which probably means it's part of the mass leap in divergence even if it might not be everything.
We didn't even have a change in divergence despite breaking True Song in the next update in 1.9 with next change in Brave Blood being update 1.12 where we got Objective Awareness and both Sync and Divergence increased by 1. I can't think of anything in the update itself besides our new power.
If it was our new power in both cases for both divergences increases then I think it interesting to note that Melded Carapace didn't change anything
This is from the first update and is obviously written from Lilly's misinformed perspective since as far as we're aware Ethea don't just go from Lesser to Common for anything much less our dreams.
But it still says somethings like being a knight and fighting against scary things without being scared.
This is an unpicked Ethos but it's interesting that even other Ethea descriptions reference Brave Blood and use it as part of its description. Really makes it obvious Brave Blood is a Warrior ethos.
A much more in-depth description and the Brave Blood we eventually picked. The 'connection' between us and Brave Blood was apparently strengthened with the only reason that comes to mind is us having dad use a favor to get us guard training. Cause it's not like we did much that was Brave or Bloody since the first chance we had at picking BB.
Once again it mentions about being a knight who fights horrors with it being specified as endless and desire to destroy the lands of man this time. Talks about adventure being in our blood and how we can use that blood to propel that somehow. Fits with Pulse Surge working with our heartbeat on the downbeats (which I think is when our blood is full of oxygen). So it feel like its being literal with the name brave blood. From this description it doesn't seem to be a leader or planning ethos which is something to keep in mind. Also going by Marigold's power Blood might have special powers and potential even without Ethea changing things.
Our first level up where we picked the first option and got True Song. Now I won't say it was a wrong choice since I really love True Song but I think it might explain part of the divergence issue we had. Cause we mainly used True Song as a communication ability than a morale buffer which doesn't sync up with what Brave Blood is about. Also while darkest hour and rallying are up Brave Blood's alley it isn't intrinsically about buffing others.
The next one seems a rather simple what doesn't kill me makes me stronger kind of thing. Makes sense for a combat build whose MO is about fighting endless foes since every hit you take means you hit harder back. Also makes sense from a Blood and Brave perspective since iirc bruises being off color has something to do with blood and being punched is an age old method of getting the blood pumping.
The next power seems like if the enemy is in sight move faster power. It relates to blood and adrenaline where in battle people tend to have faster reactions. Very much fits a warrior/knight kind of build since if a warrior is going to fast better it be in battle than running away or delivering packages.
Not sure exactly what the bloodletting one would do. Maybe doing better at dealing with the traumas of killing and war by making you grim as a coping mechanism? Kind of fits the idea of BB I think but not the kind of thing for Lilly I would think.
The next BB level up. The first power seems to be a sort of shield or damage redirect power meant to protect someone. Or maybe it's a power that boosts speed to shield someone with your own body? Anyways I'm not sure it's a proper fit for Brave Blood since while BB is about protecting human land from monsters it's more of an abstract thing that BB protecting people in the fight itself.
Next seems to be molten blood which may or may not be literal. Not sure why we would want a power that makes our blood literally scalding since that requires us to bleed on the enemy first for it to work. Maybe helpful against vampires and other blood benders like Mary? I feel there has to be more to this than just hurting enemies who get our blood on themselves. Maybe it buff pulse surge and other BB abilities since it's all based off blood so changing our blood increases our power? Anyways I guess it fits BB's Archetype.
The one we took which is about armoring up and having no weakpoints very useful for a warrior obviously.
And last one is about supernatural gripping strength which I guess is useful? Good at making any enemy we get our hands on can't go away or will be crushed to death. A decent skill for a warrior but it seems more of an unarmed ability when I would much prefer to have a weapon to fight with. Still fits the warrior type of BB.
Our third BB level up which had Evie tell us a little about the power in one word. Wonder why she didn't do it this time too busy focused on the crisis with Val and being 'Stopped'?
Anyways the first one it Time and probably a bullet time effect where we perceive time as a slowed down. Useful for reacting to blindly fast stuff and precision work. Doesn't make us faster though but Pulse Surge is already pretty good at that. A very useful power for a warrior and I hope it comes back one day.
Next is Location which seems to be some kind of flash step thing where we can move super fast to another location in an instant. Wonder how this would interact with our new Essence space stuff? Anyways this has obvious use to a warrior since closing the distance is like half the battle.
Next is Summon which presumably summons a shield to protect yourself with. Wonder if it's a physical shield like buckler or if it's an energy projection kind of thing. Either way something useful for a warrior fighting monsters.
Finally there's Tracking which we took and gave us Objective Awareness a useful thing for keeping track of things in the middle of combat but it feels like it has a focus on finding foes like a ranger than directly beating them like a Warrior which might be why is slightly increased divergence.
This is from the update where we got Objective Awareness and it has Lilly comment about how we're always doing something different with Pith which might be part of the problem.
Also this update was when Lilly was just super grumpy since her dad got werewolfed and so was probably not the best attitude for Brave Blood though if it was purely attitude than I would had expected the divergence to have lowered after getting Bedrock and helping our mental state.
And now finally the Brave Blood level up options of this update
Feels a sort of keikau dori power where the enemy does the thing we want to them to do and punish them. Or maybe its a power that helps beat down those who retreat or back off like how ancient armies frequently lost because they were run down during a rout? Anyways doesn't really feel like a warrior power since a Warrior kills it doesn't come up with tricky plans.
Anti-terror ability? Maybe turns fear into power? Whatever it is it sounds like it certainly fits the Brave part of Brave Blood and probably won't diverge us more. Could be useful since mental effects are always annoying to deal with but we have a lot going for that already with Petal, Evie, Primordial Chassis, Subversion, and our dungeon stuff. So I don't think we need this.
Already talked about this before but I think this could be useful if it isn't literally "my blood burns people" since I could see some fun synergy if we get something like "blood quickened upon seeing the enemy". Even if is just hot blooded literally it wouldn't be the worse choice in the world since we have basically infinite blood and it should perfectly fit BB so it would hopefully lower our divergence which will helpful with our milestone DC.
This feels like an ambush assassin power than a Warrior one. Cause it isn't taking advantage of an opening in the middle of combat it's trying to end the battle before it even really starts at best and assassination at worst. Might be useful for our current situation but trying to figure out a new power in the middle of everything would be a lot to ask of Lilly especially if this gets us to high Divergence and that effects how our powers work.
TL,DR: Brave Blood feels like it's about a warrior fighting with nothing but the adrenaline going through his mind. Kind of like 'The Path Walked Alone' but not as forced loneliness. It can do other stuff besides fighting but fighting is still its focus.
- Location
- Somewhere.
Honestly, I'm not sure what Divergence quite means, and if it's intrinsically bad or not.
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
These two quotes imply to me that if you get Divergence up too high you risk breaking the or maybe even inverting the Ethos. Obviously bad things and I don't want to get to High divergence our selves to see if it brings anymore problems with it.
- Location
- Somewhere.
I think Inversion risk is something to do with low Synch, actually.
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
Maybe I thought it might be so too but I don't want to make assumptions given that are only example of of someone who might go Inverted is Myrah who is both low synch and high divergence
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I just caught up and it this is super interesting and cool! Love it!
I vote Dissolution of the Self because shiny and the most actually good one, Shine My Gentle Heart, is already looking to win so I can safely vote for FUN SHINY SPOOKY.
Too scared for a write-in. I do hope we can help Valerie.
[x] [SES] Dissolution of the Self
I vote Dissolution of the Self because shiny and the most actually good one, Shine My Gentle Heart, is already looking to win so I can safely vote for FUN SHINY SPOOKY.
Too scared for a write-in. I do hope we can help Valerie.
[x] [SES] Dissolution of the Self
I'm extremely sure low sync has a ton to do with Inversion. Divergence might matter, but I dont think its a coincidence it decribed the inversion as Synchronicity Restoration.
- Location
- Who Knows Where
Looking back at page 89, QM referred to Divergence as a "double-edged sword".
So we can speculate off that, hopefully. I'm thinking it's less risky to avoid Divergence until we have a better understanding of it.
Lilly's best human source of knowledge on that would be the Captain or maybe Madam Silva, potentially.
So we can speculate off that, hopefully. I'm thinking it's less risky to avoid Divergence until we have a better understanding of it.
Lilly's best human source of knowledge on that would be the Captain or maybe Madam Silva, potentially.
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
[X] Plan: And with Swiftness--Swiftness Beyond Measure...
Sounds like a plan. Hope it works.
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
It's the thread favorite, it's a good social Ethos, and dang it, I want Lilly to be a good person and inspire goodness in others.
[X] [ACG] I Accepted the Trial.
Games have rules, spite has no limits. Null's got our number one way or another, might as well face it head on.
[X] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.
There's going to be plenty of storms ahead. Having a bit of hope will be useful. Particularly if we can share this with Zach.
[X] [BBLU] Her blood burned hot and thick, the enemy knew to avoid its scalding spray.
I fear that the "assassin" option might put us in higher Divergence, which may increase the DC for Brave Blood's Level 5 bonus. Edited after Secret Challenge reveal.
Sounds like a plan. Hope it works.
[X] [SES] Shine, my Gentle Heart
It's the thread favorite, it's a good social Ethos, and dang it, I want Lilly to be a good person and inspire goodness in others.
[X] [ACG] I Accepted the Trial.
Games have rules, spite has no limits. Null's got our number one way or another, might as well face it head on.
[X] [BLU] At her lowest point, she found a hidden light.
There's going to be plenty of storms ahead. Having a bit of hope will be useful. Particularly if we can share this with Zach.
[X] [BBLU] Her blood burned hot and thick, the enemy knew to avoid its scalding spray.
I fear that the "assassin" option might put us in higher Divergence, which may increase the DC for Brave Blood's Level 5 bonus. Edited after Secret Challenge reveal.
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