- Location
- Europe
Unfortunately, the game is the pointessly cruel thing, so I doubt it.
Though, us burning down the house, at least as a step, is possible.
It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure
- Thread starter Slyvena
- Start date
- Original Mature Fantasy Action
Unfortunately, the game is the pointessly cruel thing, so I doubt it.
Though, us burning down the house, at least as a step, is possible.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also "the game is afoot" read to me like it's already happening or in the process of happening. I wonder if there's any hints in the couple of chapters since we accepted the Child's offer. Idk
At least we get to figure out concordance, even if Lilly will likely be crying too much to listen very clearly...
At least we get to figure out concordance, even if Lilly will likely be crying too much to listen very clearly...
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm going to be honest, while the worldbuilding here interests me greatly, the sheer overwhelming amount of shit flying Lilly's way simultaneously has made it hard for me to be psychologically invested in the struggle to seek good outcomes on the other side of it all.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Alright so I've been doing some thinking about concordance.
There Must Be Bubbles.
In other words, no matter how weird or confusing concordance is, the fact that these Bubbles MUST exist is a point which we can be confident is unlikely to change (and not take reality with it)
This implies that Bubbles are therefore more important than lines. Lines are still very important, but you could make Lines even if you had no Lines (or at least, a lot lot less lines). But you can't have the Lines without Bubbles, because you must have Bubbles.
This therefore means that Lines are meant to connect Bubbles. Also, the lines are something that can be followed and even left, but if You do leave them you need to return.
If we can therefore figure out what the Bubbles are, in turn we can figure out what the lines are.
Now this mentions 'Gravitic Junctures' and 'Gravitic Actors', but what does this actually mean? Well, presumably it's talking about Gravitas.
What is Gravitas? Well, it's XP, but more than that - It's Metaphysical Weight. Ergo a Gravitic Juncture would be a Juncture that held this Weight, or why 'weighed' a lot more. Likewise, a Gravitic Actor would be someone whose decisions had weight on this event.
I don't think that this is entirely it, but... I suspect the Bubbles are at least partly these Gravatic junctures.
Now for me to be probably even more wrong than I likely already am
What is time? A sequence of Events. If the Concord is Bubbles and Lines, and the Bubbles must exist, then the Bubbles must be events that happen, linked by lines, and we've seen the Term Fate Line thrown around before now in the spreadsheets. These bubbles might all be Gravatic Junctures, but I'm less sure of that - we don't have a lot of information after all - So I'm going to refer to them as 'Events' for accuracies sake, with Events Including.
I think that this is what most of thee Rungs of Wisdom on the Ladder are targeted at and draw information from. The Ladder itself uses the Fate-Lines as a kind of guide, extending along until they reach Junctures, then collect information from them, before sending the information back, where it is understood. A key part here is the Ladder doesn't just reach towards Pre-factored events, but towards post-factored ones as well, which is likely how we got the information about Martins source of disillusionment.
So where Bubbles and Lines was describing the semi-malleable nature of Events and connecting fate lines, this is more a mechanism for why you get Bubbles growing, shrinking, or subsuming each other. I.E. why can changing the past effect the future, and Changing the future alter the past?
Now first of all: The Balls are Neither Bubbles/Events, nor are they Lines. This is indeed not how it works, but rather an analogy for how altering events within the Concord can have knock on effects due to the interconnected nature of Bubbles and Lines.
In this analogy, the force of Gravity is Post-Factoring, with the Rest State of a Ball being an analogy for an Event that has been Fully Post Factored. There is no way for us to use the Machine to nudge the ball anymore, and there is no way for the Event to be revised.
In the Bubbles and Lines methodology, it's less about events being knocked 'Up' or 'forwards' - It's about how changing events that are partially, but not completely, post factored inevitably results in knock on changes, lines being redirected to Events that are now more likely to pass due to the changes made. These future events too are becoming post factored, and as time moves forwards, they become increasingly harder to alter especially after the Event occurs. You can potentially still change them, and thus have another series of intricate changes on the future, but inevitably the events will be fully post factored, their final outcome Inviolable (to mortals at least, Gods probably can do more, but even they'll have a limit).
Furthermore, it's possible for Chainging the Future to result in changes to the past: Revising a future causing someone else to forsee it and revise a post-factored event.
Now, let's talk about Fracture and Tension.
First of all, they are a result of the fact that we are Integrated into the Concordance. We, As a Concordance User, are a Concordance Node. We were woven into the Concord in a way that most people Aren't, and as such we're metaphysically part of the Bubbles and Lines. As we are attached to them, we have the Ability to tug on the lines, and thus alter the Bubbles.
So, what do we have for both?
Fracture (for Mortals) can be intuitively shaped, but can only be used Innately - you cannot use something elses Fracture, just your own.
Tension (again for mortals) can be directed into a shape, but cannot be used intuitively. It can however draw from ones internal tension, or Tension can be channeled through you (you being a node and all, by definition things intersect through you).
Fracture I'm less sure on so take all of this next bit with a grain of salt, but Given asshole mcgees comments:
It's this which results in the more vulgar events of Concordance. Low fracture concordance doesn't get as much stuff (I'm unsure if fractures 'grab onto' Bubbles or lines), so it can only 'pull' at any lines or bubbles it would be 'connected' to regardless of the Fracture level. But, because it's also not tangled up, it doesn't have to worry about a stray Bubble or line getting pulled unintentionally. High fracture levels are surrounded by stray Lines and can pull on unexpected parts of the Concord, but because of that they might just pull slightly wrong and accidentally pull things in a different way than they intended.
To those with the Ability to sense Fracture, it would also be harder to sense a low-fracture user, because they don't pull on the concord in awkward ways as much.
Tension then, is just that: Tension, how hard you pull on the Lines. Low Tension means that you can only give the concord very gentle tugs, but the advantage is that you don't risk breaking anything, and hey, a tug in just the right way can make all the difference. High tension gives the Lines a Big Ol YANK whenever you do it, which risks breaking them, but you're definitely getting a result from it if it doesn't break.
The interesting part is that Tension is something that is both Innate and Channeled. Again, little less certain here, but I think I have something that's close if you squint:
Let us assume that Innate refers to the Line/bubble that the Concordance Node is on (I.E. our current 'Fate'). Innate Tension would be pulling on solely this Line, and presumably any lines connected to you by Fractures. Channeled then would be temporarily taking nearby lines and channeling them through you, as the Concordance Node. I'm far less sure how Fracture would affect this, but for Low Fracture like us, It's probably to do with Potential futures. What the path could be, instead of the Path you're currently on.
Alternatively, Channeled could refer to any lines snagged by fractures, and Innate the Line that you are currently on. We don't have enough knowledge to know the spcifics of how our more Vulgar Concordance Abilities work.
To those with the sense to see, Tension is probably noticing how hard the Lines are being pulled, or if anyone is pulling on them at all. I think it should be noted that Senus detected us during an update where we didn't use Sample Space, so I think we can assume he was detecting our Low Innate Tension, Since I'm pretty sure Sample Space is a skill that makes use of both Channeled Tension and our high Untuit for fracture to grabe nearby Llines and yank them .
Anywasy, I'm sleeply, and this got the hell away from me.
Now, the most important part of this is:
There Must Be Bubbles.
In other words, no matter how weird or confusing concordance is, the fact that these Bubbles MUST exist is a point which we can be confident is unlikely to change (and not take reality with it)
This implies that Bubbles are therefore more important than lines. Lines are still very important, but you could make Lines even if you had no Lines (or at least, a lot lot less lines). But you can't have the Lines without Bubbles, because you must have Bubbles.
This therefore means that Lines are meant to connect Bubbles. Also, the lines are something that can be followed and even left, but if You do leave them you need to return.
If we can therefore figure out what the Bubbles are, in turn we can figure out what the lines are.
I'd wager that Ladder searches along the lines, using them as guidance to find Bubbles, which it attatches the rungs to, which act as relay points for important knowledge. Perhaps it doesn't use every Bubble for a Rung, but given the Bubbles are more important than the lines, I suspect the bubbles are where the information is able to be accessed.
Now this mentions 'Gravitic Junctures' and 'Gravitic Actors', but what does this actually mean? Well, presumably it's talking about Gravitas.
What is Gravitas? Well, it's XP, but more than that - It's Metaphysical Weight. Ergo a Gravitic Juncture would be a Juncture that held this Weight, or why 'weighed' a lot more. Likewise, a Gravitic Actor would be someone whose decisions had weight on this event.
I don't think that this is entirely it, but... I suspect the Bubbles are at least partly these Gravatic junctures.
Now for me to be probably even more wrong than I likely already am
What is time? A sequence of Events. If the Concord is Bubbles and Lines, and the Bubbles must exist, then the Bubbles must be events that happen, linked by lines, and we've seen the Term Fate Line thrown around before now in the spreadsheets. These bubbles might all be Gravatic Junctures, but I'm less sure of that - we don't have a lot of information after all - So I'm going to refer to them as 'Events' for accuracies sake, with Events Including.
I think that this is what most of thee Rungs of Wisdom on the Ladder are targeted at and draw information from. The Ladder itself uses the Fate-Lines as a kind of guide, extending along until they reach Junctures, then collect information from them, before sending the information back, where it is understood. A key part here is the Ladder doesn't just reach towards Pre-factored events, but towards post-factored ones as well, which is likely how we got the information about Martins source of disillusionment.
Alright, now I've had my go regarding Bubbles and Lines, lets have a look at you.
So where Bubbles and Lines was describing the semi-malleable nature of Events and connecting fate lines, this is more a mechanism for why you get Bubbles growing, shrinking, or subsuming each other. I.E. why can changing the past effect the future, and Changing the future alter the past?
Now first of all: The Balls are Neither Bubbles/Events, nor are they Lines. This is indeed not how it works, but rather an analogy for how altering events within the Concord can have knock on effects due to the interconnected nature of Bubbles and Lines.
In this analogy, the force of Gravity is Post-Factoring, with the Rest State of a Ball being an analogy for an Event that has been Fully Post Factored. There is no way for us to use the Machine to nudge the ball anymore, and there is no way for the Event to be revised.
In the Bubbles and Lines methodology, it's less about events being knocked 'Up' or 'forwards' - It's about how changing events that are partially, but not completely, post factored inevitably results in knock on changes, lines being redirected to Events that are now more likely to pass due to the changes made. These future events too are becoming post factored, and as time moves forwards, they become increasingly harder to alter especially after the Event occurs. You can potentially still change them, and thus have another series of intricate changes on the future, but inevitably the events will be fully post factored, their final outcome Inviolable (to mortals at least, Gods probably can do more, but even they'll have a limit).
Furthermore, it's possible for Chainging the Future to result in changes to the past: Revising a future causing someone else to forsee it and revise a post-factored event.
Now, let's talk about Fracture and Tension.
First of all, they are a result of the fact that we are Integrated into the Concordance. We, As a Concordance User, are a Concordance Node. We were woven into the Concord in a way that most people Aren't, and as such we're metaphysically part of the Bubbles and Lines. As we are attached to them, we have the Ability to tug on the lines, and thus alter the Bubbles.
So, what do we have for both?
Fracture (for Mortals) can be intuitively shaped, but can only be used Innately - you cannot use something elses Fracture, just your own.
Tension (again for mortals) can be directed into a shape, but cannot be used intuitively. It can however draw from ones internal tension, or Tension can be channeled through you (you being a node and all, by definition things intersect through you).
Fracture I'm less sure on so take all of this next bit with a grain of salt, but Given asshole mcgees comments:
Fracture is a measure of how much you disturbn the Concord: Imagine that a Concordance Node is a kind of Ornament placed on the Bubbles and Lines. For one perfectly placed on, it almost has no effect on the Concord, not disturbing anything unintentionally too much. But it can get cracks, Fractures as it's Integrated, enough that Stuff ends up getting caught, and from it's position on the bubbles and lines, can pull in ways that wouldn't make sense from just looking at it's position in the Concord.
It's this which results in the more vulgar events of Concordance. Low fracture concordance doesn't get as much stuff (I'm unsure if fractures 'grab onto' Bubbles or lines), so it can only 'pull' at any lines or bubbles it would be 'connected' to regardless of the Fracture level. But, because it's also not tangled up, it doesn't have to worry about a stray Bubble or line getting pulled unintentionally. High fracture levels are surrounded by stray Lines and can pull on unexpected parts of the Concord, but because of that they might just pull slightly wrong and accidentally pull things in a different way than they intended.
To those with the Ability to sense Fracture, it would also be harder to sense a low-fracture user, because they don't pull on the concord in awkward ways as much.
Tension then, is just that: Tension, how hard you pull on the Lines. Low Tension means that you can only give the concord very gentle tugs, but the advantage is that you don't risk breaking anything, and hey, a tug in just the right way can make all the difference. High tension gives the Lines a Big Ol YANK whenever you do it, which risks breaking them, but you're definitely getting a result from it if it doesn't break.
The interesting part is that Tension is something that is both Innate and Channeled. Again, little less certain here, but I think I have something that's close if you squint:
Let us assume that Innate refers to the Line/bubble that the Concordance Node is on (I.E. our current 'Fate'). Innate Tension would be pulling on solely this Line, and presumably any lines connected to you by Fractures. Channeled then would be temporarily taking nearby lines and channeling them through you, as the Concordance Node. I'm far less sure how Fracture would affect this, but for Low Fracture like us, It's probably to do with Potential futures. What the path could be, instead of the Path you're currently on.
Alternatively, Channeled could refer to any lines snagged by fractures, and Innate the Line that you are currently on. We don't have enough knowledge to know the spcifics of how our more Vulgar Concordance Abilities work.
To those with the sense to see, Tension is probably noticing how hard the Lines are being pulled, or if anyone is pulling on them at all. I think it should be noted that Senus detected us during an update where we didn't use Sample Space, so I think we can assume he was detecting our Low Innate Tension, Since I'm pretty sure Sample Space is a skill that makes use of both Channeled Tension and our high Untuit for fracture to grabe nearby Llines and yank them .
Anywasy, I'm sleeply, and this got the hell away from me.
- Location
- Head in the clouds
I'm tentatively more hopeful because so far we have kept Lilly's family alive albeit with one large concession and work in progress with her brother that got exploded.
I know her parents have their issues, but they are reflections of essentially bad environments so far that they tried to make more stable for their kids.
Bad as Lilly's and Zach's issues are... There are worse.
And keeping the family alive essentially means more tail to teeth ratio.
Zach's inverted ethos is going to cause so much pain and heartbreak but if the family is going to have to be moving anyways - that's someone else that can tear threats apart.
Silas and his runes? Defenses, wards and what not. He lost several levels but he has a 41 level Ethos with him as the intended recipient of the bonus. I think that they can deal with the set back.
Speaking of Liatris - level 41 Flow ethos. When most Flow ethos are sponged away. If she can just see Flow effects and warn or help mitigate the others is worth a lot.
We also picked up Myah, with an Ethos that is probably going to work well with Lilly's set - and is liable to work with the group at large.
And I'm fairly sure Marius is coming with if only out of sheer loyalty because Lilly saved him. Notably except for Zach most of these people are back liners to help with prep work. Helping amplify Lilly more.
Yes a lot of trouble is coming. But Lilly does have people behind her that with a bit of support from apparently one of the best Essence Ethos around... Everyone is in for an adventure.
Half Moon
In the end, there is no end.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Really, now? You think that someone isolated and with a strained relationship with her father wouldn't want to make bonds more than anything?
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
Theory: The purpose of Concordance is to smother the Butterfly Effect by having changes to the timeline affect as few Events as possible.
Let us look at the timeless classic, "Back to the Future". The plot of the movie revolves around 3 "bubbles". Bubble 1 is [Lorraine takes care of George after he gets hit by a car]. Bubble 2 is [George and Lorraine kiss at the Dance]. Bubble 3 is [George and Lorraine have 3 kids; the 3rd of which is Marty McFly].
Marty goes back in time and accidentally "pops" Bubble 1 by being the one hit by a car instead of George, which jeopordizes Bubbles 2 and 3. Marty then spends most of the movie trying to manipulate events to make Bubble 2 happen anyway. He succeeds, and goes back to 1985 to see his family intact, but their condition significantly improved.
Under any version of "hard" time manipulation, there's absolutely no way that George and Lorraine would have had the exact same kids. With all of the drastic life changes the couple have due to their changed directory, the chance of having the exact sperm and egg lining up in a new timeline is absurdly improbable. However, Concordance promotes "soft" time manipulation, meaning that as long as Bubble 2 exists, the line will bend however it needs to in order to connect to Bubble 3.
We saw an example of this with Madam Silva's cup trick. One would think that such a blatant manipulation would have had drastic knock-on effects in the past in order to work, but Concordance seemed to prefer to change as little as possible to swap the position of the ball.
...I have to imagine that royalty in this world employ Concordance users in order to keep the bubbles of their existence ("Prince Edward was born this day") as safe as possible, for as long as the bubbles are preserved, the lines will sort themselves out.
Finished my reread and catchup (as it turns out I didn't read past 2.4 originally, for some reason) by binging hard over the past few days. I wish I had some profound insights to offer, but unfortunately nothing comes to mind for the moment.
I will say, though, that Val's 3-part interlude hurt, in the best way. I'm really hoping Petal and {Rest State} can bring back that sheltered and naive yet compassionate and oh so earnest girl we got to see there before Aboleath, thrice-damned be his name, truly began his machinations, and that Lilly can provide the counsel and compassion she needs to move forward (which might include temporarily suppressing most of the memories of what she's done). I think my preferred medium-term outcome would have Lilly, Valerie, Marigold, and potentially Myah act as an adventuring party (of very well-adjusted magical girls) while Captain Martin and whomever in the Watch chooses to follow him/Lilly guard our family (as long as the team of 4 can teleport back with {Riemannian Geometer} whenever it might be necessary) and do any necessary politicking on our behalf.
I'm contemplating trying my hand at an omake where, in a year or two, some 'ancient evil' (potentially from the Fifth Era, though I'd be just making stuff up at that point) awakens but very quickly finds himself confronted by Lilly's squad. He could try all kinds of things, but Valerie's commands are just so persuasive, and Marigold's pets are just so numerous, and every time he hits her she just smiles and ramps things up further, and Lilly is just capable of so much, more than anyone should be, and Myah's there just out of reach, making everything they do just that little bit more potent. This 'ancient evil', whoever he is, fancies himself a king, a conqueror, but to Lilly and the gals, he's just another challenge to overcome. Honestly, for them it's just another Tuesday.
I really don't think I can describe the interplay between all the sources, all of Lilly's powers, and everything else very well, certainly nowhere near the level Sly can consistently manage. I might try regardless though, but I won't make any promises.
I will say, though, that Val's 3-part interlude hurt, in the best way. I'm really hoping Petal and {Rest State} can bring back that sheltered and naive yet compassionate and oh so earnest girl we got to see there before Aboleath, thrice-damned be his name, truly began his machinations, and that Lilly can provide the counsel and compassion she needs to move forward (which might include temporarily suppressing most of the memories of what she's done). I think my preferred medium-term outcome would have Lilly, Valerie, Marigold, and potentially Myah act as an adventuring party (of very well-adjusted magical girls) while Captain Martin and whomever in the Watch chooses to follow him/Lilly guard our family (as long as the team of 4 can teleport back with {Riemannian Geometer} whenever it might be necessary) and do any necessary politicking on our behalf.
I'm contemplating trying my hand at an omake where, in a year or two, some 'ancient evil' (potentially from the Fifth Era, though I'd be just making stuff up at that point) awakens but very quickly finds himself confronted by Lilly's squad. He could try all kinds of things, but Valerie's commands are just so persuasive, and Marigold's pets are just so numerous, and every time he hits her she just smiles and ramps things up further, and Lilly is just capable of so much, more than anyone should be, and Myah's there just out of reach, making everything they do just that little bit more potent. This 'ancient evil', whoever he is, fancies himself a king, a conqueror, but to Lilly and the gals, he's just another challenge to overcome. Honestly, for them it's just another Tuesday.
I really don't think I can describe the interplay between all the sources, all of Lilly's powers, and everything else very well, certainly nowhere near the level Sly can consistently manage. I might try regardless though, but I won't make any promises.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Actually I think that one might be one of the "Subsuming Bubbles".
Silva mentioned with the cup trick that she made it so that the balls future 'ended' when a cup was placed over it, so there was no future where picking up a cup resulted in us seeing a ball.
IDK, I've been thinking too much today
I'm reminded of that old tumblr post about an ancient blade from thousands of years ago being discovered and it's just kinda eh in the modern day.
- Location
- Head in the clouds
Strained is a very... Understated way of saying regularly beating.
Which appears to be the truth no one is allowed to know - and why she chased off her friends.
Which given that the mother and brother died in two days of each other - the situation devolved extremely quickly.
Note it's seemingly been under a year and Myah is absolutely desperate to run away. If she thought being "more helpful" would ease things Myah dropped that incorrect line of thought impressively quickly for someone so young.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I just had a thought, and I bet the child is a reincarnator, just like Evie. The both described themselves as young, so maybe the child isn't associated with the maw, and is just some stupid spirit that's been around for ages. If the ladder can mention "historical aftershocks" then that seems newer than the maw.
Or maybe it's a spirit which the maw has corrupted? Or maybe the spirit is the dungeon itself...? (now im just throwing random stuff out to hopefully get a secret challenge)
Or maybe it's a spirit which the maw has corrupted? Or maybe the spirit is the dungeon itself...? (now im just throwing random stuff out to hopefully get a secret challenge)
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
...Oh I just realised how fucking ludicrously bullshit cleaver is.
We can't direct our tension.
Innate or Channeled, we don't direct it. We don't choose how to pull on the lines. It's not intuitive, because even if that was possible that would still be an active choice, like throwing a ball instead of Calculating the Ballistics.
Every active effect of Cleaver isn't using Tension, it's intuitively reshaping our Fractures to grab the right connections and then letting our Tension do as it will!
We don't "Pull on the line that makes an ant live 2 more days". We "Want an Ant to live for 2 more days, and in doing so the necessary lines are pulled". We don't "Make a Rock fall left instead of right", We "Want a rock to Fall left instead of Right, so the necessary tension is exerted to make it so". We don't "Pick the perfect Lilly from Countless thousands", we "Need to act perfectly, and so are pulled towards the actions we would consider perfect".
Remember, we're the Cleaver, not the Ethos - We decide what the future we want is, the Ethos is just the mechanism to allow us to reach it. Direction isn't the important part, and why sense Fractures or external tension when what matters is you, those things are just distractions from you deciding what the future shall be!
We can't direct our tension.
Innate or Channeled, we don't direct it. We don't choose how to pull on the lines. It's not intuitive, because even if that was possible that would still be an active choice, like throwing a ball instead of Calculating the Ballistics.
Every active effect of Cleaver isn't using Tension, it's intuitively reshaping our Fractures to grab the right connections and then letting our Tension do as it will!
We don't "Pull on the line that makes an ant live 2 more days". We "Want an Ant to live for 2 more days, and in doing so the necessary lines are pulled". We don't "Make a Rock fall left instead of right", We "Want a rock to Fall left instead of Right, so the necessary tension is exerted to make it so". We don't "Pick the perfect Lilly from Countless thousands", we "Need to act perfectly, and so are pulled towards the actions we would consider perfect".
Remember, we're the Cleaver, not the Ethos - We decide what the future we want is, the Ethos is just the mechanism to allow us to reach it. Direction isn't the important part, and why sense Fractures or external tension when what matters is you, those things are just distractions from you deciding what the future shall be!
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I like your idea here. However, and I might be wrong about this, doesn't Lilly have almost no Fracture whatsoever? I haven't really looked at the spreadsheet myself yet, but I feel like people were saying she has 0.1% or something in that range.
To me, it seems like you're onto something here, since it is definitely the case that Lilly herself is the Cleaver, but it also seems like we can't be exactly using Fracture to pull on or reshape Tension since, if I'm understanding correctly, we have one of the lowest possible Fracture "scores".
Half Moon
In the end, there is no end.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It is unclear if regular beating was the state of things before she got her ethos.
Besides, she has the exact sort of emotional state that would justify contradictory decisions like this. She's scared and she doesn't have anywhere safe.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
We have less than 0.1, but that doesn't mean we have nothing.
Remember - Low fracture means less vulgar effects, but greater control:
In other words, we can't do something like "Actually, you stabbed yourself". But we don't need to, instead we just need to create the necessary links we can form, and then events will be directed towards the future we desire.
Like, as an alternate example, take Sample Space. It's potent, but that's a function of High Tension. In practice, there's nothing Weird (or, well, Blatantly weird) going on: For an external Viewer, Lilly doesn't draw in something from a different timeline, or alter the reality around her, she just suddenly acts in just the right way.
That's Low Fracture. Use of the Concord in such a way that those who cannot sense concordance might not even realise something was done - and depending on the Ethos, maybe not even some of the Concordance users.
Edit: As an example of High(er) fracture, I'm going to give an example from the Fate Franchise.
Gae Bolg is a Spear whose power is described as an inversion of Cause and Effect. Once activated, the effect of "The spear stabs you in the heart" comes first. As such, even if you dodge it, the spear would ricohet around in a way that made no logical sense, because the effect has already happened. You've already been stabbed, reality is just catching up.
Meanwhile, in comparison, all of Lillies abilities are incredibly Subtle. The scope of Cleaver isn't as crazy as some of the other presumable powers out there. What makes it interesting is that Lilly doesn't need to plan how to use her Tension to create an effect or scan the Concord - Cleaver takes care of all of that for her, streamlining the process so Lilly can focus on the future she wants to achieve.
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- Location
- Head in the clouds
I do think things devolved extremely quickly because Lilly doesn't know Myah's ethos - and the only reason Lily didn't get the chance to show off to her friends is that they were out of town by the time she woke up. And parent shouting at a kid, is something that the child would share. Not happy about it, probably wondering what they did it was two days between Lilly crying with Myah over her mother's death to Myah being apparently so deep in crisis that she wasn't over Jeremy.
After all the death of Jeremy wasn't years ago the term Lilly uses is months.
It devolved quickly enough that I'm suspicious the family always had problems but the father either didn't dare go after the kids while the wife was alive because pharmacist probably could kill him with poison and killing her means losing the income stream or she was shielding the kids with herself. And then there was only his daughter in the house.
The other thing with Laywoman - ability to immediately leave the house for the Temple most likely without leaving town. Without her father being able to say much without dragging eyes to him to boot.
That said - Myah I don't see as having the right temperament for any offensive ethos So your point about her scared holds. Even an inverted one doesnt get her father killed. So no matter how bad it gets she's not going to go for something like say Pythe.
- Location
- Europe
If we can, there is a good chance they would die if we consider what happened to Lilly.
Also, we probably lack the catalyzer for the first phases. It is probably gone with Colossi.
- Location
- Dragyxx
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Colossus didn't actually care if we survived. It would have been perfectly fine with a twisted, broken monster. Probably even wanted that to happen.
Were we to try, we'd probably put a lot more effort into making it gentle.
Still probably a thing for much later, if ever.
Were we to try, we'd probably put a lot more effort into making it gentle.
Still probably a thing for much later, if ever.
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
...If Demons, Angels, and all the rest are invested in taking the Maw down, what's stopping them from implanting Multi-Ethos into mortal agents of their choosing to push back at the Maw's influence on the Melange Layer?
Theory 1: The soul manipulation required for such a task would either require going "all in" to bind to a mortal's soul, or would require some interdimensional set-up requiring precision and time that can't occur while the Colossi is rampaging around the Melange Layer.
Theory 2: Everybody's dead, Dave. Or at least, Evie was the last spirit who had even a chance of making it through to the Melange Layer without getting ripped to shreds.
Theory 3: The Maw "source" is the equivalent of stem cells; it's able to adapt and be molded in ways that other Sources simply can't. Evie was able to manipulate Lilly's soul without becoming corrupted, so it's not necessarily evil. It's just that the Maw generally has it run rampant and become a self-perpetuating cancer.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
It seems to be something that would be considered against the Rules, if Eva'cllials words were true, combined with "So many fucking people are dead", given that the only reason we could get Foundational Ethea is because apparently "No ones guarding that proverbial watchtower".
Probably because it would make the 'Plan' of the 6th Era (that likely came into place following the Divine Wars) much harder to implement. Said plan seeming to involve the Integrating of Mortals into the Deific Planes.
Probably because it would make the 'Plan' of the 6th Era (that likely came into place following the Divine Wars) much harder to implement. Said plan seeming to involve the Integrating of Mortals into the Deific Planes.
- Location
- Europe
I think that the boundless ethos was, ultimately, what Flower was planning for the Bloomlings to achieve.
Colossi probably stole the catalyzer for it, partially corrupted it, and forced it in the Melange layer, from where Flower could not directly take it back.
Also, we are now guessing that the divine plan was to unlock the second stage of ethea; I wonder about what relation Flower had with the other spirits and weavers outside of the hostility against those that interfered with her plans, which is probably normal, because the boundless ethos sounds like something outside of the objectives of the pact while still reaping the benefits from the work of all.
If that was the point, then I wonder what other entities on its level were trying to achieve, and if we should worry about what they left behind after, eventually, some of them get eaten.
Colossi probably stole the catalyzer for it, partially corrupted it, and forced it in the Melange layer, from where Flower could not directly take it back.
Also, we are now guessing that the divine plan was to unlock the second stage of ethea; I wonder about what relation Flower had with the other spirits and weavers outside of the hostility against those that interfered with her plans, which is probably normal, because the boundless ethos sounds like something outside of the objectives of the pact while still reaping the benefits from the work of all.
If that was the point, then I wonder what other entities on its level were trying to achieve, and if we should worry about what they left behind after, eventually, some of them get eaten.
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- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Alright so I think I just realised something
But then I remembered something else.
Now whilst The Child is a Null Error, That doesn't mean it cannot influence the Concord. I wonder if in some way this is part of the Second Game. It would fit with certain things: The Idea that the information he'll give on the Concord is something that can be used to mock us, for example. We also know he was talking about a future event due to an earlier cypher that stated "The Poem was not a Memory it is a promise". And it would explain why agreeing was worse than saying no - he could still have attempted to use this to manipulate things beforehand, but us accepting the game made it easier for him to do it? And it would be a lot more unfair given that Lillies knowledge of the concord is incredibly limited because A) He's a null error, and B) We can't actually sense the concord very well at all. We're expecting something to go wrong with Zach already, but what if he got manipulated by The Child before he recieves his ethos, making it so that he doesn't want to be helped or actively comes to resent everyone, thus making us unable to help him in an way and causing the worst possible outcome for us?
And then us learning that by accepting the game, we helped give the Child the tools to accelerate the Pre-factor of the outcome he desires? So that the only moment we realised we were playing is when we've already lost?
This is all wild speculation by the way. I'm assuming I'm way off. But this is the best possible guess I've got.
We've already speculated that this is about Zach. That he's going to die as his family calls him a monster because of something - potentially him going mad because of his inverted ethos.
But then I remembered something else.
Future sight and predictions influences the past - this happened to us with Valerie - the very act of us learning the information meant our Gravitic Actor Factor was higher than it would otherwise have been.
Now whilst The Child is a Null Error, That doesn't mean it cannot influence the Concord. I wonder if in some way this is part of the Second Game. It would fit with certain things: The Idea that the information he'll give on the Concord is something that can be used to mock us, for example. We also know he was talking about a future event due to an earlier cypher that stated "The Poem was not a Memory it is a promise". And it would explain why agreeing was worse than saying no - he could still have attempted to use this to manipulate things beforehand, but us accepting the game made it easier for him to do it? And it would be a lot more unfair given that Lillies knowledge of the concord is incredibly limited because A) He's a null error, and B) We can't actually sense the concord very well at all. We're expecting something to go wrong with Zach already, but what if he got manipulated by The Child before he recieves his ethos, making it so that he doesn't want to be helped or actively comes to resent everyone, thus making us unable to help him in an way and causing the worst possible outcome for us?
And then us learning that by accepting the game, we helped give the Child the tools to accelerate the Pre-factor of the outcome he desires? So that the only moment we realised we were playing is when we've already lost?
This is all wild speculation by the way. I'm assuming I'm way off. But this is the best possible guess I've got.
I wonder if "His own blood condemns him" implies that something bad happens to male descendants of Bloomlings when they reach a certain age or a certain level, or maybe only if their Ethos is Inverted. I don't think we know anything about whether Liatris or Marigold had any brothers and what their status would be. Alternatively, it could just be that one of the main reasons Manoth and Nullerror are interested in Zach in the first place is because he's a Bloomling's oldest son. Even if nothing bad is guaranteed to happen to such people, perhaps they have some interesting metaphysical significance that makes them valuable for experimentation and/or torment.