Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!
- Thread starter Crystalwatcher
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- Original
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- Italy
So what you're saying is..
if Ana steals Rei pudding and is sent flying throught the base Gehaburn could activate depending on the people she'll crash into?
I'm-a gonna stop you right there, as it's the older Neptune who's the pudding addict, not the younger one. And we know that Ana would be asking Rei for it instead of outright taking it, as it would be much more likely to succeed.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
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It occurs to me that this hasn't been addressed properly, so let me try.
The thing with Dodge is that it, well, dodges. It's a defense that defends by not allowing the attack to land, rather than attempting to resist and reduce it. Thus, Unstoppable is a non-factor in whether something can be dodged.
As for being a nuke... Well, no, it's not. It's a column of light. it's a lot easier to dodge than the omnidirectional spread of a nuke. Dodges are limited by soft mechanics, but even Oblivion Awaits can be dodged if you're good enough and have the right supporting skillset. Symphony of Peace, even with Apocalypse, does not actually match the kind of AoE Oblivion Awaits has, nor is the wind up all that subtle.
The top of the "dodge good" totem pole has people like White Soul, who can dodge rain without the benefit of any explicit ability, or the only person currently alive to possess Effortless Dodge, who can curbstomp 1/4 of the Goddesses and stalemate the shiny gold-plated one. Unless an attack has Undodgeable (or Unblockable for some ungodly reason), "does it actually hit" is basically always a valid question in theoretical "vs all comers" matchups because there will be someone who can potentially evade it.
Now, just so we're clear, just because it's possible to dodge doesn't make dodging it likely; Symphony of Peace is too large and hits too fast for most people to dodge effectively. At the same time, if you're hoping for some single move that applies equally in all situations against all opponents that you can use to solve every problem... Don't. That would be poor game design and there's no way we're going to give you that.
So you are throwing away the thing about large amounts of damage causing splash damage then? Because as a reminder we were told:
Meanwhile even without Prime Evil Slayer, Supremacy Zone, or even a successful Echo Symphony of Peace deals 65,636,000 Damage or over six times what Oblivion Awaits does. Without Beyond Good and Evil even that minimum power Symphony of Peace would kill Gaia twice over. If we bring up Celestial Severance to Level 20 like some people have been pushing for that minimum Damage shoots up to 524,388,000 Damage. That is nearly fifteen times the amount of Damage required to kill Gaia.
With that kind of damage it doesn't matter if it's a straight beam since it would function exactly like a nuclear detonation. Nuclear bombs work by releasing massive amounts of radiation of which around 80% is nearly instantly absorbed by the atmosphere which superheats it into the nuclear fireball. From there we get the massive thermal pulse of infrared radiation given off by the fireball that sets everything on fire and then the shockwave forms as the fireball rapidly expands. The massive amounts of energy released by Symphony of Peace would superheat all the air in the column of light and thus we'd effectively get a nuclear fireball and from there boom.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
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Oh, no, but remember that Oblivion Awaits can envelop an entire continent. Symphony would make a really big trench, but "really big trench" =/= "There was a continent here, it's gone now".
Nope. Look at the update again, and you'll notice two things: First, that Ataraxia is still intact, which it, well, wouldn't be if someone set off a nuke or nuke-equivalent next to it. Second, The Progenitor Frame's weapons that the girls are tapping into here are utterly silent and make things stop existing instead of blowing them up. They actually function very similarly to Oblivion Awaits in what they do to the target, but they lack the fluidity and versatility Rei gets out of OA because they're more restricted in form than "energy field".
I'll also note that on the soft mechanics level Symphony really isn't inclined to lateral splash damage. Over-penetration? Oh yes, all the overpen. Damaging things to the sides of it? Not so much.
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Theoretically, if aimed correctly (and possibly upgraded a bit), couldn't Symphony of Peace's column of light hit the Moon or another planet, meeting the requirements to bypass the weakest versions of Blue and Orange Morality?
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
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...Didn't you already ask that?
In Discord. Explanation made it relevant to put here.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
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Then just quote the relevant discord posts instead of asking me questions you already know the answer to.*grumbles about pointless questions and goes to bed*
Not everyone allows Discord and/or pm stuff to be quoted without permission.
*grumbles about pointless questions and goes to bed*
This. Also that I treat Discord discussions as one step removed from the actual thread in terms of op-sec.
I suppose the question then is; what is the point of Symphony of Peace?
It's not useful for fighting armies since it lacks sufficient splash, it's damage (without Prime Evil Slayer or Supremacy Zone) is lower then Starshine in anti-army mode, and it's cool down means it can't be spammed like Starshine.
It's not useful for fighting hero units since it's charge up time means anyone tough enough to be a Nepgear tier hero unit can dodge it, it's high damage doesn't matter because Celestial Severance is already a solid OHKO on pretty much everything, and it's cool down leaves Nepgear vulnerable.
It could work as an anti-fortress weapon although Celestial Severance means we can just cut our way through fortress supports until they collapse.
Now it's possible that using Symphony of Peace with Progenitor Frame active, as intended, changes things but then I ask what was the point of allowing us to use it outside the frame in the first place? This just dilutes the effect.
On a completely different note - @Crystalwatcher is Mode Change only supposed to cut Purifier Beam's Base Damage in half? Because the Beam Extension ability, which is no longer on the character sheet, doubled our Base Damage so one would think that Barrel Retraction would cancel that doubling and halve the Damage for an effective quartering of Damage.
Or to put it in perhaps a clearer way I was expecting:
Now it could just be this is a fancy way of showing us simply disabling the Beam Extension and yet this:
It's not useful for fighting armies since it lacks sufficient splash, it's damage (without Prime Evil Slayer or Supremacy Zone) is lower then Starshine in anti-army mode, and it's cool down means it can't be spammed like Starshine.
It's not useful for fighting hero units since it's charge up time means anyone tough enough to be a Nepgear tier hero unit can dodge it, it's high damage doesn't matter because Celestial Severance is already a solid OHKO on pretty much everything, and it's cool down leaves Nepgear vulnerable.
It could work as an anti-fortress weapon although Celestial Severance means we can just cut our way through fortress supports until they collapse.
Now it's possible that using Symphony of Peace with Progenitor Frame active, as intended, changes things but then I ask what was the point of allowing us to use it outside the frame in the first place? This just dilutes the effect.
On a completely different note - @Crystalwatcher is Mode Change only supposed to cut Purifier Beam's Base Damage in half? Because the Beam Extension ability, which is no longer on the character sheet, doubled our Base Damage so one would think that Barrel Retraction would cancel that doubling and halve the Damage for an effective quartering of Damage.
Or to put it in perhaps a clearer way I was expecting:
Barrel Extended (IE: Beam Extension active) - 12,921
Normal (IE: Beam Extension disabled) - 6,460
Barrel Retracted (IE: Beam Extension disabled & Pistol Mode active) - 3,230
Normal (IE: Beam Extension disabled) - 6,460
Barrel Retracted (IE: Beam Extension disabled & Pistol Mode active) - 3,230
Now it could just be this is a fancy way of showing us simply disabling the Beam Extension and yet this:
is a clear change over the default settings and we didn't acquire Beam Extension until GEAR SHOOT and there is no mention of the Purifier Beam's design changing there from what it looked like Nepgear first transformed.
If you look at the stat sheets on the first page, Symphony of Peace is actually the main weapon of the Progenitor Frame.
Seems like the reason it exhausted us like this is because we used it without the Progenitor Frame (using it incorrectly).
We just fired the main weapon of a multiversal scale Divine Being (albeit one that's at nowhere close to full power)!
I actually brought that up in my post:
If Symphony of Peace is only useful while Progenitor Frame is active why make using it outside of the frame an option at all? All it currently does is make Core Purge even more situational since it now completely shuts down our ability to use spells.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
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Mode-change coincides with disabling beam extension.
Well that wasn't an intended result but personally I'm pleased with that. You guys don't have much tactical variance these days.
Lately the only actual threats we've been fighting are things that have been revived by Goddess Red and which we don't want to kill. Didn't exactly have many reasonable options for that.
When we're perfectly cool with being lethal we have way more options.
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Yeah, our kit only really has one way to solve that problem. Or two if you count "tie them down till the aura's fix it."
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
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most of the tactics I see you guys propose can be roughly summarized as "if there's more than one of them, Starshine. If there's only one of them, CS. If they get close, Core Purge". Effective, sure, but varied that is not.
Highwind
To Rise From The Ashes
- Location
- Brazil
Look, we have a Radius of Absolute Fuck You, a Spellcard, a really strong mid-range DoT and we only just learned how to make our basic gun not accidentally everything around us.
Our general tactics are going to boil down to spamming CS and activating Core Purge if they get close enough, firing Starshine at groups of enemies and using the Purifier Beam on single targets because that's what our tools are best at. Everything else will depend on what the actual battlefield looks like.
There's other stuff that we want to do, but need time to train them first.
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- madison
don't give someone a sledge hammer and complain when they don't perform surgery. Neps offensive kit is a choice of blunt instruments, with most of them lacking the fine control to do anything clever with them.
aside from that, if you think an ability is broken, introducing an "upgrade" that nerfs it is not the right way to go about fixing it. We have an entire multi dimensional empire who just moved fucking us up into it's top 10 items on it's to do list, some kind of curse or wound from a strategic scale ritual or something would be a better way to introduce a nerf. Hell explain that it's being done partially because an ability has been made too over powered and you might even keep salt to a minimum. Doubly so if you emphasize that the enemy had to expend a trump card that they really didn't want to to pull it off.
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LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
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To reiterate, "nerfing" wasn't an intentional result of this, and these are just my own personal feelings on the matter. It'll probably be brought up in the workshop (as soon as more than one of us is online at the same time >_>) and you can get some kind official word then.
I will note, though, that "nerf" implies some new restriction, and this isn't new. You just know the specifics of it now.
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- madison
never mind then, i'd misread what it did then. I thought it changed how core purge worked so we couldn't cast while it was up. Though i'm not seeing it on neps sheet so now i'm just confused as to what it does period.
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"Casting while using core purge always did this, you've just never tried it."
I think.