@Oshha, if we have two Infrastructure passives up, will the Elders faction act as a tiebreaker to see if a Large Stone Wall or a Main Sacred Forest gets built? They do want a wall at the moment.

Not that I'm complaining about the increased Infrastructure focus but... rather than change our passive policies right now, wouldn't it make more sense to settle land until we get our fourth province (and with it, our next set of passive policies)?
The change in policy includes adding another Expansion policy. It does just as much to make progress on filling provinces this turn as your plan while also ending the minor crisis we're currently suffering. (And being better in the long term for province-filling.) You should really vote for that passive policy change. Settles more land and gets those walls built just like you want, but more cheaply, without taking up manual actions, and while ending a minor crisis.
 
@Oshha, if we have two Infrastructure passives up, will the Elders faction act as a tiebreaker to see if a Large Stone Wall or a Main Sacred Forest gets built? They do want a wall at the moment.

No, it would still be a coin flip between the warriors and the priests due to those two factions having a lot more influence than any of the others.
 
No, it would still be a coin flip between the warriors and the priests due to those two factions having a lot more influence than any of the others.
The elders' special ability is increasing a faction's faction power. Couldn't they increase the Warriors' faction power up to 6, making them definitively more influential than the Priests?
 
We need 6.5 Settlements for that.
Yes? And?
The change in policy includes adding another Expansion policy. It does just as much to make progress on filling provinces this turn as your plan while also ending the minor crisis we're currently suffering. (And being better in the long term for province-filling.) You should really vote for that passive policy change. Settles more land and gets those walls built just like you want, but more cheaply, without taking up manual actions, and while ending a minor crisis.
Expansion is an inefficient Passive Policy though. It only completes half a SEC action per turn.
I'd rather manually expand and make it a province policy. Less actions wasted that way.

Also, you are technically incorrect. Expanding without changing policy gives us 1.5 progress. just changing policy only gives us 1.0 progress.

Besides, expanding seems to be a way to reset the crisis. Think of its looming threat as an incentive to expand.
 
The elders' special ability is increasing a faction's faction power. Couldn't they increase the Warriors' faction power up to 6, making them definitively more influential than the Priests?

They could do that, they are just choosing not to and boosting what influence they have managed to retain.
 
Hum, could be worthwhile to:

[] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies = (Agriculture+Trade->Infrastructure+Infrastructure)
[] [SEC] Switch Province Policy = (Megaproject->Expansion)
[] [SEC] Settle Land = (Northern Sunset Plains)

Which would get us 2.5 settlement progress this turn(giving us +3 permanent Econ), 1.5 settlement progress per turn passively and a realistic chance of catching up on our (kinda massive) infrastructure backlog.

Or just use the passive policy action to cultivate redstars or take a megastructure-boosted Study Nature action. w/e. Point is that the +1 settlement progress on the province action would probably also solve our overpopulation crisis. Because province policies build new settlements faster than passive policies.
They could do that, they are just choosing not to and boosting what influence they have managed to retain.
Poor Elders.
 
Expansion is an inefficient Passive Policy though. It only completes half a SEC action per turn.
I'd rather manually expand and make it a province policy. Less actions wasted that way.

Also, you are technically incorrect. Expanding without changing policy gives us 1.5 progress. just changing policy only gives us 1.0 progress.
Your assessment of what's efficient and what's not doesn't actually make sense. It entirely assumes that we'll have the liberty and the desire to spend a Secondary action on Settle Land each and every turn, which is a bad assumption because I can guarantee you that won't be the case. In the long term, Expansion policy is more efficient because unlike the manual plan, it actually WILL settle land every turn, getting us to 4 provinces (and thus more actions) faster than the manual plan.

Single Expansion policy plus Sec Settle Land is 1 progress. Double Expansion and no Settle Land is 1 progress.
 
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Lorvysh
[X] [SEC] Cultivate Redstars.
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (4/4) = Agriculture+Trade -> Expansion+Infrastructure
 
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Northern Sunset Plains)
[X] [SEC] More Farming.
[X] [SEC] Cultivate Redstars.
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Lorvysh
[X] [MAIN] Build Wall = Greenbay
[X] [MAIN] Build Wall = Rockbay
[X] [SEC] Study Nature.
 
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Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 43 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 1061-1084]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: SEC

[X][SEC] Cultivate Redstars.
No. of Votes: 6

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Lorvysh
No. of Votes: 4

[X][SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (4/4) = Agriculture+Trade -> Expansion+Infrastructure
No. of Votes: 3

[X][SEC] More Farming.
No. of Votes: 2

[X][SEC] Settle Land = (Northern Sunset Plains)
No. of Votes: 2

[X][SEC] Study Nature.
No. of Votes: 2

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Boarfolk Nomads
No. of Votes: 1

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Caradysh
No. of Votes: 1

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Cernn
No. of Votes: 1

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Forden
No. of Votes: 1

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Forluc
No. of Votes: 1

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Fornn
No. of Votes: 1

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Lowlander Tribes
No. of Votes: 1

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Tordysh
No. of Votes: 1

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Zaradysh
No. of Votes: 1



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: MAIN

[X][MAIN] Build Wall = Greenbay
No. of Votes: 3

[X][MAIN] Build Wall = Rockbay
No. of Votes: 2


Total No. of Voters: 7
 
[X] [SEC] Cultivate Redstars.
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (4/4) = Agriculture+Trade -> Expansion+Infrastructure
[X][SEC] Settle Land = (Northern Sunset Plains)
 
Your assessment of what's efficient and what's not doesn't actually make sense. It entirely assumes that we'll have the liberty and the desire to spend a Secondary action on Settle Land each and every turn, which is a bad assumption because I can guarantee you that won't be the case. In the long term, Expansion policy is more efficient because unlike the manual plan, it actually WILL settle land every turn, getting us to 4 provinces (and thus more actions) faster than the manual plan.

Single Expansion policy plus Sec Settle Land is 1 progress. Double Expansion and no Settle Land is 1 progress.
My assessment of what's efficient is that 1 Passive Expansion policy only does 0.5 SEC Settle Land actions per turn. Which is less than the 1.0 of SEC Settle Land or the Provincial Expansion policy.
Passive Expansion policy is not quite Passive Megaproject policy, but it's not efficient either. 2x Expansion passive would get us the equivalent of 1 SEC action per turn, whereas 1X Expansion Province or consistent SEC actions would let us slot those passive policies on Study, Trade or Infrastructure to get us 2 SEC actions per turn.

In the short term, taking actions to Settle Land will get us to 4 provinces faster than relying on a double expansion policy would.
In the long term, we can get more done with our Passive Policies if we put them on Infrastructure, Study, Exploration or Trade.

Single Expansion policy is 0.5 progress. Single SEC Settle Land is 1 Progress.
1 + 0.5 = 1.5
0.5 + 0.5 = 1.0
 
My assessment of what's efficient is that 1 Passive Expansion policy only does 0.5 SEC Settle Land actions per turn. Which is less than the 1.0 of SEC Settle Land or the Provincial Expansion policy.
Passive Expansion policy is not quite Passive Megaproject policy, but it's not efficient either. 2x Expansion passive would get us the equivalent of 1 SEC action per turn, whereas 1X Expansion Province or consistent SEC actions would let us slot those passive policies on Study, Trade or Infrastructure to get us 2 SEC actions per turn.

In the short term, taking actions to Settle Land will get us to 4 provinces faster than relying on a double expansion policy would.
In the long term, we can get more done with our Passive Policies if we put them on Infrastructure, Study, Exploration or Trade.

Single Expansion policy is 0.5 progress. Single SEC Settle Land is 1 Progress.
1 + 0.5 = 1.5
0.5 + 0.5 = 1.0
Ah, you're right, Sec Settle is indeed 1 progress. However, my point remains. Your plan relies on us regularly setting aside manual actions for Settle Land, and if we don't do enough we'll ultimately have less province progress than if we set it on Double Expansion. I understand the mathematics you're using to reach your conclusion but it still falls short of being practical on the basis that we will not be doing Sec Settle Land once every two turns. We'll simply have too much on our plate and we'll want to do other things.

One of the issues compounding the above is that Sec Settle Land is rather expensive. -5 temp econ is a lot, and if we do it this turn it'll knock down our temp econ by 11 together with the Temple, which is a very considerable amount. Spending enough to fill up the provinces at a rate even equal to Expansion will hobble us with econ costs. We were only barely able to afford Main Stone Wall which let us finish it in one turn, to give an example of the way high temp econ is important. It'll become even more important if we hit a golden age, which might actually happen thanks to the Temple and the Warrior quest. (Warrior quest takes us to 3/3 stability, Temple gives us a golden age via megaproject bonus.)

So, in short, the Sec Settle Land plan can be called impractical solely on the basis of demanding more actions than we'll end up giving, and that's before accounting for its temp econ costs.
 
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"Why do you need potions when you got magic?" inquires Brys before pausing as he seems to realise something, "Not that I am questioning you on how to do your job as a priestess, but Cathlyn says that magic is better than herbs in every way."

"Perhaps if Cathlyn bothered to study both instead of focusing on just one, she wouldn't spread such lies," scoffs Morwyn as the woman flicks her hair over her shoulder, "Instead, she studies magic at the expense of other methods and then takes her own lack of skill as evidence of non-magical methods being inferior."
Interesting, and something we should probably keep an eye on. We don't want to face the problems of the lore of nature being ignored in favor of the lore of magic, and it seems that some are pushing for exactly that...
 
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Interesting, and something we should probably keep an eye on. We don't want to face the problems of the lore of nature being ignored in favor of the lore of magic, and it seems that some are pushing for exactly that...
The redstar cultivation it seems we're doing this turn will help counteract the anti-nature school of thought somewhat, as will the priest quest if we finish it (vote for Infrastructure passive to ensure its completion!) We'll want to keep on top of this issue.
 
Ah, you're right, Sec Settle is indeed 1 progress. However, my point remains. Your plan relies on us regularly setting aside manual actions for Settle Land, and if we don't do enough we'll ultimately have less province progress than if we set it on Double Expansion. I understand the mathematics you're using to reach your conclusion but it still falls short of being practical on the basis that we will not be doing Sec Settle Land once every two turns. We'll simply have too much on our plate and we'll want to do other things.

One of the issues compounding the above is that Sec Settle Land is rather expensive. -5 temp econ is a lot, and if we do it this turn it'll knock down our temp econ by 11 together with the Temple, which is a very considerable amount. Spending enough to fill up the provinces at a rate even equal to Expansion will hobble us with econ costs. We were only barely able to afford Main Stone Wall which let us finish it in one turn, to give an example of the way high temp econ is important. It'll become even more important if we hit a golden age, which might actually happen thanks to the Temple and the Warrior quest. (Warrior quest takes us to 3/3 stability, Temple gives us a golden age via megaproject bonus.)

So, in short, the Sec Settle Land plan can be called impractical solely on the basis of demanding more actions than we'll end up giving, and that's before accounting for its temp econ costs.
Then we'd better MAIN settle land in order to get the extra actions and policies faster won't we?
Bonus in that every settlement we build increases our Econ pool by 1, making it more affordable to settle land, construct Megaprojects, spend on Golden Age options or afford that 4th action(and 2nd province policy).

Anyway, by not changing our Passive policies, we retain the Agriculture policy which pays for most of a SEC settle land actions' Econ cost. And there's currently a Population Explosion to offset even more of the cost. And a SEC Farming this turn generates a whopping +5 Temp Econ once you account for the Faction quest thanks to our current Copper-blooded bonus stacking with Agricultural Innovators.
Once you run the numbers you'll realize that, as long as we don't follow your idea of spending an action to swap out the Agriculture policy, regular SEC Settle is almost trivially affordable at our current Econ pool even with the Megaproject Province Policy(and more affordable once we expand a bit).

If you are worried about us not being ready for a Golden Age through completing the Temple? You should swap out the Province Policy from Megaproject to Expansion. Manually complete the Temple later.

Anyway, that's why your plan to turn Agriculture+Trade into Infrastructure+Expansion and taking SEC trade actions to compensate for us no longer passively trading appears to be pretty flawed.
The redstar cultivation it seems we're doing this turn will help counteract the anti-nature school of thought somewhat, as will the priest quest if we finish it (vote for Infrastructure passive to ensure its completion!) We'll want to keep on top of this issue.
Study Nature might also work for finding countering sentiment against natural remedies.
 
Thinking about it, that raises an important balancing act we need to maintain to avoid issues from arrogance. Too much exploration of the lore of magic, we could easily grow blind to potential mundane solutions like gunpowder. Focus too much on the lore of nature( or science), and we could easily grow blind to the potential magical solutions, both can very quickly become capital P problems if we are not careful and keep an eye on the hints the author gives us.
 
Then we'd better MAIN settle land in order to get the extra actions and policies faster won't we?
If a Secondary with an econ cost of 5 is too much - and it is - then a Main with an econ cost of 10 is way too much. This is common sense, man.

Anyway, by not changing our Passive policies, we retain the Agriculture policy which pays for most of a SEC settle land actions' Econ cost.
Dedicating a Secondary every two turns to this plan is already non-viable. Sacrificing a passive policy on top of that just makes it worse!

Qeqre, please just give up this plan. It doesn't fix the minor crisis, it doesn't reliably get us the sacred forests and large stone walls, it forces us to ignore the new kingdom this turn, and in the long term it's a massive stat and action drain that we will not be able to follow through with for lack of resources and attention. (Or will force us to hurt ourselves to keep to the schedule.) It is not a viable plan. It is a bad plan. The thing to do isn't to dig for work-arounds and monofocus on making it work somehow, it's to take a step back and move on.
 
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[X] [SEC] Cultivate Redstars.
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (4/4) = Agriculture+Trade -> Expansion+Infrastructure
[X][SEC] Settle Land = (Northern Sunset Plains)
 
If a Secondary with an econ cost of 5 is too much - and it is - then a Main with an econ cost of 10 is way too much. This is common sense, man.


Dedicating a Secondary every two turns to this plan is already non-viable. Sacrificing a passive policy on top of that just makes it worse!

Qeqre, please just give up this plan. It doesn't fix the minor crisis, it doesn't reliably get us the sacred forests and large stone walls, it forces us to ignore the new kingdom this turn, and in the long term it's a massive stat and action drain that we will not be able to follow through with for lack of resources and attention. (Or will force us to hurt ourselves to keep to the schedule.) It is not a viable plan. It is a bad plan. The thing to do isn't to dig for work-arounds and monofocus on making it work somehow, it's to take a step back and move on.
Except MAIN Settle Land is viable if we keep the Agriculture policy, as the single Expansion policy is set to finish a settlement and each settlement adds +1 to our Econ pool.
MAIN Settle Land pushes our Econ pool to 25(26 from the single Expansion passive for a Temp Econ regen of up to 13). Paired with the Population Explosion giving us +2 Temp Econ every Main or Mid turn and the Agriculture policy giving us +4 Econ, we have enough Econ to endure the -10 Temp Econ from Settle Land even with an additional -6 from our Provincial Policy building the Temple.
It's a large stat drain, but it is one we can follow through on. And yes, it does encourage us to build settlements so we won't have to hamstring ourselves with a double expansion policy, but building those settlements gives us more Econ so t he stat drain stops being as much of a problem.
if we want a stronger buffer for building other projects like Sacred Forests or Large Stone Walls? Our Farmers have been asking us to do more farming. Which boosts the Farming action to a whopping +5 Temp Econ if we spend a SEC action on it. And if we want a lower Temp Econ drain? We can swap out the Megaproject Province Policy for an Expansion Province Policy(which, by the way, would fix the population crisis, as it would have a faster expansion speed than a double Passive Expansion policy)

True, simply spamming settlements this turn doesn't give a permanent structural solution to our current rate of popgrowth this turn. As deliberately more settlements only resets the progress on the overcrowding issue and would 'merely' keep the crisis a non-issue until we get our 4th province filled in and can have another Passive or Province policy work on building more settlements.
As for the new Kingdom, not changing the Passive policies means we still have a Passive Trade expedition. It's entirely possible that it'll head to the new kingdom(or that the Caermyr decide to open up trade relations). But it's not a disaster if it doesn't, as the crafters are a weak faction who are currently happy. But if you absolutely must spend on a SEC Trade Expedition? I'd recommend pairing it with a SEC More Farming and a SEC Settle Land.

Calling it non-viable to even SEC Settle Land every two turns just displays an ignorance of the actual numbers though. Take a step back from your mono-focus on having a double Passive Expansion policy and move on @Andres110 . It's a bad idea to hunt faction quest rewards for the sake of hunting faction quest rewards.
 
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