[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
-[X] Evatine decides to reach out to the Caradysh as allies against Skjaldur. (Temp Diplo-, -1 Stability, ???)
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)

Our biggest advantage by far is that we have a Diplo Genius helping us. Leaving that on the table is a a massive waste.

Getting the boafolk on our side is the single biggest thing we can do to empower ourselves because heavy cavalry on open planes is overpowered.

It is possibly critically important to get the Caradysh on our side. Not only would it mean getting another Great Power fighting the Nersondurans, with all its military forces and its heroes, it'll also knock out any possibility that the Caradysh will do something to harm us while we're busy fighting the Nersondurans. As before, having two Great Powers gunning for us is a pretty bad move so even securing neutrality would be highly beneficial.

This is the best way to take advantage of our Genius Diplo cadlon.
 
[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
-[X] Evatine decides to reach out to the Caradysh as allies against Skjaldur. (Temp Diplo-, -1 Stability, ???)
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)


Well, looking at it all there are two general ways this could go, the Arthwyd triumph over the filthy barbarians and we get to bask in our continued assurance as to our superiority in morals and intelligence over our bronze age opponents or the Arthwyd get stomped, Arthryn turns into Junko, and I get to laugh in the blood and slaughter of a thousand generations.

Or at least one or two pages worth of salt.

It's win-win really!

Edit: change of vote
 
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[X] She decides to commit to the fighting in the south. (Pick one sub-vote)
-[X] Evatine moves to strike at the Nersondur colonies in the Lowlands. (Temp Econ-)
 
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[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
-[X] Evatine does what she can to prepare the Arthwyd for the upcoming war. (Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, Temp Martial+, ???)
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)
 
[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
-[X] Evatine decides to reach out to the Caradysh as allies against Skjaldur. (Temp Diplo-, -1 Stability, ???)
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)

I think it's best to squeeze every last point of martial out of everybody we can with our diplomatic genius.
 
Do we know anything about how previous battles between Caradysh and Nersondur went? There have been quite a few, and one of the few upsides of letting them into our territory is we should at least be getting some rumormongering about whatever goes on over there.

I'd be happy with a report that amounts to 'their flashy magic does X' or they use Y weapon'.
Nersonduran usually win battles against Lowlanders, but battles against the Caradysh themselves. Over the last hundred years, the initial fighting favoured invaders, but more recently, things have been more mixed to the point that the last couple of decades has seen the Caradysh successful holding the line against the Nersondurans even if they been unable to take the land already lost.

Caradysh use stone weapon, but they are primarily reliant on wights to swarm the enemy and while revenant commanders use extensive magic. Wights seem to be good if the Caradysh can pin down the Nersondur, but otherwise they get avoided. No reliable reports on how effective the Caradysh magic is due to bias both on the Lowlanders making them and the Arthwydish recieving them making them inaccurate when it comes to any details.

The Nersondur use obsidian weaponry primarily through some are forced to regular stone and a handful have been known to use metal weaponry. They have shamans and while some do go onto the battlefield, magic tends to be a rarity amongst the Nersondur on the battlefield.
 
The vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 162 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 4034-4055]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)
No. of Votes: 7
[X] HanEmpire
[X] Andres110
[X] carterhall
[X] Huda
[X] nat_401
[X] swift1212
[X] UwU

[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
No. of Votes: 7
[X] HanEmpire
[X] Andres110
[X] carterhall
[X] Huda
[X] nat_401
[X] swift1212
[X] UwU

-[X] Evatine does what she can to prepare the Arthwyd for the upcoming war. (Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, Temp Martial+, ???)
No. of Votes: 4

-[X] Evatine moves to strike at the Nersondur colonies in the Lowlands. (Temp Econ-)
No. of Votes: 4

[X] She decides to commit to the fighting in the south. (Pick one sub-vote)
No. of Votes: 4

-[X] Evatine decides to reach out to the Caradysh as allies against Skjaldur. (Temp Diplo-, -1 Stability, ???)
No. of Votes: 3
[X] Andres110
[X] nat_401
[X] UwU


Total No. of Voters: 11
 
[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
-[X] Evatine decides to reach out to the Caradysh as allies against Skjaldur. (Temp Diplo-, -1 Stability, ???)
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)
 
[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
-[X] Evatine does what she can to prepare the Arthwyd for the upcoming war. (Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, Temp Martial+, ???)
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)

-[X] Evatine moves to strike at the Nersondur colonies in the Lowlands. (Temp Econ-)
 
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So, just throwing this out there, but I'm fairly confident that the Caradysh will try their best to bow out of this war (or at the very least not actively participate) if we don't at least start attacking the Nersondour this turn.

Skjaldur has already taken a good chunk of their lowlands territory with just his opening attack; now that his army is here in force he can easily clean up the rest if he so desires (and as a military Genius, he likely knows better than to purposefully attack on two fronts).

My reading of how that would go is that the Caradysh will get their butts kicked, either losing lowlands territory to conquest or having lowlanders swear fealty to the Nersondour in the face of their impotent overlords, and then make enough of a nuisance of themselves harassing the army in the Forest that Skjaldur will leave them alone to fight us. Needless to say this is quite the bad thing, as I'm not very confident in us being able to face and defeat the Nersondour in a 1v1 confrontation.
Forgot to mention this earlier, but this pretty much lines up with Evatine's understanding of the situation. Skjaldur is moving to knock the Caradysh out of the fight by isolating their Lowland holdings and picking them off while they are weak and alone. Once that is done, he will move in the Arthwyd Empire in force. Meanwhile Evatine doubts that the Caradysh will commit to the fighting the war at this point. The Caradysh are fully aware of the sunk cost fallacy and if they deem the cost of keeping the Lowlands to not be worth the potential gain, they will pull back to the Forest and wait things out. Even worse, Evatine suspect that they might throw their lot in with the Nersondur if it looks like Skjaldur might have a chance of taking down the Arthwyd.

Unless something is done to save the Caradysh Empire now, you can expect the Caradysh to withdraw from the war unless you give them something else worth enough to bring them back in. And if the fighting turns against you, the Caradysh might decide to aid Skjaldur to get rid of the thorn in their side that is the Arthwyd Empire.
 
[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
-[X] Evatine decides to reach out to the Caradysh as allies against Skjaldur. (Temp Diplo-, -1 Stability, ???)
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)
 
[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
-[X] Evatine decides to reach out to the Caradysh as allies against Skjaldur. (Temp Diplo-, -1 Stability, ???)
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)
 
[X] She continues to prepare for the war. (Pick two sub-votes)
-[X] Evatine decides to reach out to the Caradysh as allies against Skjaldur. (Temp Diplo-, -1 Stability, ???)
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)
 
-[X] Evatine decides to reach out to the Caradysh as allies against Skjaldur. (Temp Diplo-, -1 Stability, ???)

we can't not do this. We've bought time with the boarfolk, now we need to make sure the Caradysh at minimum don't turn on us.

we won most of our wars previous through long and grinding slogs that broke something in the cultures who attacked us. The only two that didn't seem to be severely altered by conflict with us are the Boarfolk and the Caradysh, though they may have without our noticing since we have such low visibility with them.

Thankfully, our overall warfare strategy of Administrative Attrition and Morale Undermining should work on the Nersondur. They'd be the first since the Merntir way back when to really be vulnerable to this kind of strategy. We developed that strategy because we knew early on that we didn't want to be another Warring Faction in the Lowlands, we wanted to primarily be a culture of governance and generosity. We were unlikely to beat warlike cultures in head-on battles and warfare, but Administratively? Diplomatically? Mystically? We could always have more supplies, better morale, and stronger loyalty in the long run.

This has not been useful to us since the aforementioned fight against the Merntir. I'll list our foes since then:

Forlucc had divine troops and nearly unbreakable morale for them. Their slave economy made much of the burden of war far easier on those with actual power, but was also a long-term vulnerability we could exploit. Ultimately they were broken by the Boars and the Winter, but we bloodied them pretty badly a few times prior to that.

Our civil war was against those with equal administrative and siege chops to us, and they were isolated self-sufficient cities in the end as opposed to an empire.

Caradysh got away with it because their cursed forest bonuses, endless undead manpower, and truly unbreakable line troops severely limited our ability to cripple them. It still worked to a degree, but we had ongoing war fatigue and threat from the Boars at the time so we had to pull out.

The Boar Nomads were (and probably still are) a perfect military matchup against our style
Nomadic lifestyle left very little exposed away from the wargroup for us to attack.
Divine intervention assisted in the feeding of troops and the fighting-off of poisons
Nomadic knowledge of how to live off the land fed their troops on top of the divine intervention there
Ultra-heavy cavalry were capable of bulldozing through the palisades the Merntir had at the time
Cavalry moved faster than our divinely quick troops
Units were as-strong and tough as our divine troops
Nomadic Warlord leadership left no disloyalty or morale vulnerabilities, when combined with their ability to bust through palisades without needing to siege.
Limited population size, since almost the whole host was bound together and any not of the host didn't need to be protected

Nersondur on the other hand?

Nersondur are a colonizing naval power with a culture of glorious warfare and conquest.
They hold lots of territory, giving our massive numbers a huge surface area to strike
Divine has not shown to intervene in foraging from the land, or protecting them from the land's toxins. Poisons should work. Hunger should work
Martial Colonizing relies on colonies and the colonized to know how to live off the land and feed their hosts.
No ultra-heavy cav
Our self-sufficient divine squads should easily be faster than mundane humans
Their peoples are not as strong or tough as our divine
Colonies require occupation and loyalty management. Although the areas around their martial heroes will have no morale or disloyalty issues, there is a lot of Nersondur.
Larger population spread, and a responsibility to protect it, leaves them vulnerable to extremely wide assault.

And worst of all (for them) if
-[X] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)
succeeds? We will be the ones with the ultra-heavy cav. Our troops make great anvils, and there is no better hammer than the Boarfolk.

Alternately, there are few better raiders than the Boarfolk. Hiring tribes to accompany some of our divine raiding parties, in order to completely bust through underprepared defenses? That boosts our raiding from simple disruption to crippling to devastating. Wouldn't want to sack every/any given colony of the Nersondur, but if there are particular administrative centers for any given region . . .

In addition to Nersondur being much bigger in size than our previous opponents, we are also way bigger now than we used to be. Despite our low level of recruitment, we should still have a lot of divines available to us. That means we should have plenty available for offensive raiding while a core supports the defense of the Lowlands. Previously we were limited in our ability to raid due to us having low numbers or the opponent being too small, but here? Now? Yeah the Nersondurans almost certainly have a slave economy which will help shrug off the war-fatigue initially. Other than that though, they should be pretty poorly equipped to handle this sort of mass warfare. Away from glorious battles and conquest, and much more about breaking down the opponent's ability to sustain war over the long term.

We break their backs in this continent through administrative and diplomatic channels. We cripple supply lines, instill rebellion in their colonies, allow their concentrated force to trudge into our heavily fortified lands, and die ingloriously to poison or disease or starvation in long sieges. Meet them head-on as little as possible.

Asymmetric warfare. Hit where they are weak. Avoid where they are strong. They think there is glory in battle? We'll see if they find glory in deaths to poison, to disease, to starvation. Death to rock falls and burning fields. Deaths of ambushed scouts and overwhelmed night-guards.

I look forward to finally having our strategic style work against an opponent again. There'll likely be fairly competent administration, and I wouldn't be surprised if their defenses were pretty good, but at least this style should work instead of being largely voided by specific characteristics of our neighbors.
 
...Frankly, I hear you guys on wanting to engage with 'talks' to keep the Caradysh in the fight, but as I see it:
They're the vangaurd, they're on the front lines of getting clobbered by these Nersondur. They're ALREADY invested. And they are losing and dying!
They're not a distant ally to be convinced, they're France staring down the business end of the Blitzkrieg. We CAN let the undead-makers fall over before we take to the fight, sure...But frankly? I don't want the Nersondur to even get that far. We need to move NOW, or the Caradysh won't survive long enough to see Arthwyrd aid.
And our relationship with our 'vassals'? It's as good as it is, as I understand it, at least partly because we would be there to protect them! If we DON'T do something to that effect, we'll basically become something of bosses in theory, but not reality, and that's the kind of situation the Forluc WILL remember and utilize to their advantage if they're crafty.
 
They're not a distant ally to be convinced, they're France staring down the business end of the Blitzkrieg. We CAN let the undead-makers fall over before we take to the fight, sure...But frankly? I don't want the Nersondur to even get that far. We need to move NOW, or the Caradysh won't survive long enough to see Arthwyrd aid.
More like they are Britain, wondering whether Czechoslovakia is actually that big a deal because really, they are not that invested. Sure, they have lowlands vassals they just lost contact with, but they got that for free, easy come easy go. They can always get it back next time something devastates the area.

I fully expect them to hide in the woods where they can stack local terrain on top of their other advantages and all but demand a bribe from us to come out.
 
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...Frankly, I hear you guys on wanting to engage with 'talks' to keep the Caradysh in the fight, but as I see it:
They're the vangaurd, they're on the front lines of getting clobbered by these Nersondur. They're ALREADY invested. And they are losing and dying!
They're not a distant ally to be convinced, they're France staring down the business end of the Blitzkrieg. We CAN let the undead-makers fall over before we take to the fight, sure...But frankly? I don't want the Nersondur to even get that far. We need to move NOW, or the Caradysh won't survive long enough to see Arthwyrd aid.
And our relationship with our 'vassals'? It's as good as it is, as I understand it, at least partly because we would be there to protect them! If we DON'T do something to that effect, we'll basically become something of bosses in theory, but not reality, and that's the kind of situation the Forluc WILL remember and utilize to their advantage if they're crafty.
You see, I do agree with you on this. It's not at all out of the question that the Caradysh does the same thing the Boarfolk decided to do and just wait and see instead of getting involved.

However the area you want to send our Heroic Martial hero into has two enemy Heroic Martial heroes there as well, with a Genius Martial hero on the way with the bulk of his army. Any attempt by us to try and fight them will not end well. If we'd gone Genius Martial it'd be a far better gamble to take, but as is with Genius Diplo instead...

Well we've made the bed, now we get to sleep in it.
 
In addition to Nersondur being much bigger in size than our previous opponents, we are also way bigger now than we used to be. Despite our low level of recruitment, we should still have a lot of divines available to us. That means we should have plenty available for offensive raiding while a core supports the defense of the Lowlands.

Not quite true. You are larger with a bigger population, but translates into more spare manpower rather than more troops. Your population growth has outstripped your recruitment rates massively so you have disproportionately few warriors compared to your population.

Asymmetric warfare. Hit where they are weak. Avoid where they are strong. They think there is glory in battle? We'll see if they find glory in deaths to poison, to disease, to starvation. Death to rock falls and burning fields. Deaths of ambushed scouts and overwhelmed night-guards.

I look forward to finally having our strategic style work against an opponent again. There'll likely be fairly competent administration, and I wouldn't be surprised if their defenses were pretty good, but at least this style should work instead of being largely voided by specific characteristics of our neighbors.
This assumes that you can fight on your terms and forgets some social factors. If they attack your vassals, your social values obligate you to go to their defence, which could mean field battles. Furthermore, you might have a Martial Hero of your own, but you are facing a Martial Genius and two Martial Heroes. There is a good chance that they can fight on their own terms and force battles that are undesirable for your strategy.

No battle plan survives contact with the enemy and don't expect the Nersondur to let you fight this war on your terms if they can help it.

They're the vangaurd, they're on the front lines of getting clobbered by these Nersondur. They're ALREADY invested. And they are losing and dying!
They're not a distant ally to be convinced, they're France staring down the business end of the Blitzkrieg. We CAN let the undead-makers fall over before we take to the fight, sure...But frankly? I don't want the Nersondur to even get that far. We need to move NOW, or the Caradysh won't survive long enough to see Arthwyrd aid.
The Caradysh aren't that invested in the Lowlands. Sure the regular supply of corpses and having some villages to rule over is nice, but it isn't that big of a deal for them since they can just withdraw to the Cursed Forest. A revenant who has been around for centuries is going to risk death fighting against the Nersondur just so they can keep some luxuries. The Caradysh have priorities and keeping their empire in the face of the renewed Nersonduran invasion isn't that high on the list.

The Caradysh aren't going to fall for the Sunk Cost Fallacy. If keeping their empire in the Lowlands becomes to risky or costly, they will write it off as a loss in a heartbeat before forting up in the Cursed Forest to watch the Nersondur go at it with the Arthwyd Empire from the sidelines.
 
The Caradysh aren't going to fall for the Sunk Cost Fallacy. If keeping their empire in the Lowlands becomes to risky or costly, they will write it off as a loss in a heartbeat before forting up in the Cursed Forest to watch the Nersondur go at it with the Arthwyd Empire from the sidelines.
So I guess the question is if we should join in now to try and prevent the empire from getting split apart, or get a bit more prep before we join the war...
 
So I guess the question is if we should join in now to try and prevent the empire from getting split apart, or get a bit more prep before we join the war...

Pretty much. You need to intervene now if you want to keep the Caradysh Empire from being knocked out of the war. Even talking to the Caradysh will just be keeping the Caradysh in the war when the Caradysh Empire falls.
 
[X] She decides to commit to the fighting in the south. (Pick one sub-vote)
-[X] Evatine moves to liberate the Fornn from its Nersondur conquerors. (Temp Econ-)
I am gonna vote this to try and keep the empire around to help us in this war.
 
No no, we should let the Caradysh's empire fall so that we can then liberate the entire Lowlands from the Nersondur! This will also overstretch the Nersonduran forces even further, and our Diplo Genius can still convince the Caradysh to stay in the war afterwards. And really, they're the only ones within their own empire that actually have a force that matters.
 
What is considered an intervention?

In the context of preventing the fall of the Caradysh Empire, it means going down to the southern Lowlands with an army to physically prevent the Nersondur from mopping up what is left of the Caradysh Empire.
 
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