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Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest

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[X][MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde)
[X][SEC] Train Sacred Warriors
[X][SEC] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde)
I am not voting for two main war parties, because well, that is pretty much solving the problem with the traditional zerg rush, which is not exactly sustainable... Our force has a lot of potential, but innovations are a big deal, and the narrative is also important here, and well, our forces are stagnant because they don't see much point in changing the way to fight...

Oshha said:
Less than you might think, at least in your case. The Arthwyd have a history of both winning and fighting until they win. Your neighbours might smell blood in the water, but no one is eager to start a fight to the death with the Arthwyd Empire before they find out whether or not it has truly been declawed.
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Yeah, with us, any attempt to really contest us is likely to lead to a total war, so well, unsurprisingly they are reluctant to try and call a bluff they are not sure is actually there...
 
Oshha said:
Do note that the Boarfolk are so decentralised that each tribe is effectively their own state. They just get counted together due to shared culture and keeping things simple enough for me to run. Your relations with the Boarfolk Nomads only accurately apply to the tribes that you regularly interact with and are closest to you. The fact that the neighbouring tribes like you a lot doesn't mean that tribes that have never actually met you won't have any issues with attacking you.

Do not think of the nomads as a singular entity and it is foolish to try treat them as such or expect them to act like one.
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Its kind of funny how over the years people are STILL treating nomad tribes like a single bloc.

Its more like an ecosystem.
If you're good trade partners, then most of the time you get individual tribes who are good trade partners with you, and every so often tribes which AREN'T trading with you decide to try to take things for free instead(at which point a good trade partner is also one that's consistently hard to beat up)
If you are antagonistic, then the more trade and peace happy tribes will move away from you and all the fight happy tribes will come at you whenever they think they got a chance.

Generally though, if you're friends with some tribes then you'd be hooked into their rumor mill and would get SOME forewarning of oncoming hordes rather than being taken by surprise unless you're overdosed on pride and ignore it.
 
Oshha said:
Given that we have posters on this forum who would seriously ask that, you need to make clear that it is a joke by adding smiley or /jk or something else that indicates the non-seriousness nature of the post.
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Comedy, why you have to be so hard in text.

Also aren't the Cernn the guys who worship spirits? Anything those have been up to we may have heard about?
 
Oshha said:
Do note that the Boarfolk are so decentralised that each tribe is effectively their own state. They just get counted together due to shared culture and keeping things simple enough for me to run. Your relations with the Boarfolk Nomads only accurately apply to the tribes that you regularly interact with and are closest to you. The fact that the neighbouring tribes like you a lot doesn't mean that tribes that have never actually met you won't have any issues with attacking you.

Do not think of the nomads as a singular entity and it is foolish to try treat them as such or expect them to act like one.
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I have not said that they act in concert. I said that Kashkan happened despite our good relations with the Boarfolk. Meaning that it can happen again. Their level of unity does not affect this point.

I also said that even the Achlanders knew the Boarfolk got their metal tools from someone else, indicating that our metal tools reached the eastern fringes of the Boarlands before our expedition to the far east. From this I am inferring that there's a decent chance of our reputation for disproportionate retaliation preceding us, at least when it comes to groups with a shared culture, like the Zarannists or the All-Boarists.
In other words: even the tribes that haven't met us have probably heard of us.

Third was me countering the claim that the overwhelming majority of our Boarfolk interaction happened via Merntir by pointing out that the Boarfolk were directly traveling to the Maradysh all the way back in the Bounty of Gold update. And that Caermyr, being a Center of Trade situated on the Boar River(also the Tordysh, who are situated further upriver), probably sees a non-negligible amount of Arthrynite-Boarfolk interaction. This claim was used to prop up the assertion that Kashkan's Horde will not attack Greenbay.

Oshha said:
Less than you might think, at least in your case. The Arthwyd have a history of both winning and fighting until they win. Your neighbours might smell blood in the water, but no one is eager to start a fight to the death with the Arthwyd Empire before they find out whether or not it has truly been declawed.
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And part of my argument is that we should keep our claws sharp so we don't find ourselves declawed. Because being well-liked is no guarantee against being attacked.

Oshha said:
Not true. You once provided with the Fordysh with food when they were facing starvation and the whole point of the Empire passive policy is providing aid and representation to your subordinates. As far as your subordinates have been concerned, you have providing aid since the Empire passive policies were chosen.
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A single example does not a pattern make. And the arguments made in the thread at the time were about opposing Forluc values and trying to invent missionaries. Given that nobody was arguing about the Fordysh' welbeing at the time, it isn't a good example.

That said, I did not know the Empire passive actually offered direct support instead of being purely about cooperation and representation so I stand corrected there. This actually makes their rebellions even more distasteful.
 
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Qeqre said:
I have not said that they act in concert. I said that Kashkan happened despite our good relations with the Boarfolk. Meaning that it can happen again. Their level of unity does not affect this point.

I also said that even the Achlanders knew the Boarfolk got their metal tools from someone else, indicating that our metal tools reached the eastern fringes of the Boarlands before our expedition to the far east. From this I am inferring that there's a decent chance of our reputation for disproportionate retaliation preceding us, at least when it comes to groups with a shared culture, like the Zarannists or the All-Boarists.
In other words: even the tribes that haven't met us have probably heard of us.

Third was me countering the claim that the overwhelming majority of our Boarfolk interaction happened via Merntir by pointing out that the Boarfolk were directly traveling to the Maradysh all the way back in the Bounty of Gold update. And that Caermyr, being a Center of Trade situated on the Boar River(also the Tordysh, who are situated further upriver), probably sees a non-negligible amount of Arthrynite-Boarfolk interaction. This claim was used to prop up the assertion that Kashkan's Horde will not attack Greenbay.


And part of my argument is that we should keep our claws sharp so we don't find ourselves declawed. Because being well-liked is no guarantee against being attacked.


A single example does not a pattern make. And the arguments made in the thread at the time were about opposing Forluc values and trying to invent missionaries. Given that nobody was arguing about the Fordysh' welbeing at the time, it isn't a good example.

That said, I did not know the Empire passive actually offered direct support instead of being purely about cooperation and representation so I stand corrected there. This actually makes their rebellions even more distasteful.
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Qegre, I'm not arguing against you or whatever position you are advocating for. I'm providing factual information about the quest to the players.
 
[X] [MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde)
[X] [MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde) x2
[X][Haven] Accept every last refugee and spread them about the Arthwyd Empire. (-1 Stability, -3 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, +3 Temp Econ next Main Turn)
 
I'm a bit frustrated we're abandoning our Maradysh Loyalists here in order to fight on open plains against a threat that almost reached the heartland through our holy Sunrise Pass in the defense of a loose non-religious vassal that is mostly broken anyway
 
[X] [Haven] Accept every last refugee and spread them about the Arthwyd Empire. (-1 Stability, -3 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, +3 Temp Econ next Main Turn)

[X] [MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde)
[X] [SEC] War Party = (Maradysh Triumvirate)
[X] [SEC] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde)
[X] [SEC] Train Sacred Warriors

[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = (Boarfolk Nomads)

Has anyone thought about bribing the Boars away, hmm?

[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = (Caradysh)
[X] [SEC] Explore Lands = (Cursed Forest)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Caradysh)
 
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Qeqre said:
So why quote me?
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I was adding to more detail to the points you made.

JowKeen said:
I'm a bit frustrated we're abandoning our Maradysh Loyalists here in order to fight on open plains against a threat that almost reached the heartland through our holy Sunrise Pass in the defense of a loose non-religious vassal that is mostly broken anyway
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You are not. Your province policy will send war parties against the Maradysh rebels if the players don't actively send one themselves.
 
I really think we should do double Main on Kashkan's Horde. The difference between 4 temp martial and 6 temp martial is pretty big, and could easily be critical given how big the Horde is. An extra Main also means we get an additional +1 temp martial.
 
The vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 106 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 2650-2714]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: Haven

[X][Haven] Accept every last refugee and spread them about the Arthwyd Empire. (-1 Stability, -3 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, +3 Temp Econ next Main Turn)
No. of Votes: 5
[X] UlseDovThur
[X] ALanos
[X] Illusion of Eris
[X] Qeqre
[X] Random Member


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: SEC

[X][SEC] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde)
No. of Votes: 6
[X] HanEmpire
[X] argenten
[X] Kiba
[X] nat_401
[X] Random Member
[X] Themarineguy

[X][SEC] War Party = (Maradysh Triumvirate)
No. of Votes: 6
[X] UlseDovThur
[X] argenten
[X] Kiba
[X] nat_401
[X] Qeqre
[X] Random Member

[X][SEC] Train Sacred Warriors
No. of Votes: 3
[X] Qeqre
[X] Random Member
[X] Themarineguy

[X][SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = (Boarfolk Nomads)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Random Member

[X][SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = (Caradysh)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Random Member

[X][SEC] Explore Lands = (Cursed Forest)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Random Member

[X][SEC] Study Magic.
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Qeqre

[X][SEC] Switch Province Policy = (Offensive)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] UlseDovThur

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Caradysh)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Random Member


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: MAIN

[X][MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde)
No. of Votes: 13
[X] UlseDovThur
[X] ALanos
[X] Andres110
[X] argenten
[X] HanEmpire
[X] jamie96969
[X] Kiba
[X] nat_401
[X] Qeqre
[X] Random Member
[X] Themarineguy
[X] UwU
[X] veekie

[X][MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde) x2
No. of Votes: 6
[X] HanEmpire
[X] ALanos
[X] Andres110
[X] jamie96969
[X] UwU
[X] veekie

[X][MAIN] War Party = (Maradysh Triumvirate)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] JowKeen

[X][MAIN] War Party = (Maradysh Triumvirate) x2
No. of Votes: 1
[X] JowKeen


Total No. of Voters: 15
 
[X] [MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde)
[X] [MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde) x2
[X][Haven] Accept every last refugee and spread them about the Arthwyd Empire. (-1 Stability, -3 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, +3 Temp Econ next Main Turn)
 
[X] [MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde)
[X] [MAIN] War Party = (Kashkan's Horde) x2
[X][Haven] Accept every last refugee and spread them about the Arthwyd Empire. (-1 Stability, -3 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, +3 Temp Econ next Main Turn)
 
When the next Golden Age comes around, I think we should buy an administrative innovation, or a megaproject option related to governance like an upgrade to the Palace. With our explorer value making ever more settlements, our province count will increase and drive up our minimum centralisation. We can have two more provinces without additional issue, but one more after that will cause our civilisation to collapse, and we're already two thirds of the way to an additional province.

There's a 50% chance per turn of a free new settlement. We'll reach two new provinces in about 16 turns, and collapse in about 28 turns if we don't increase Centralisation.

EDIT: Small miscalculation. The Palace gives us 1 extra admin strain free province, so we'll collapse in about 40 turns, not 28 turns.
 
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That reminds me, hey @Oshha , is Pioneering Values more likely to shift towards Exploration if we're already building a new Settlement or Colony that turn to deal with the excess population?
Also, do our automatic settlements prioritize all partial thresholds(e.g. 7/15 -> 12/15) over settling new provinces or was Greenbay an exception due to being our capital?
 
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