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Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

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Thorthemighty said:
Tanaka? Wasn't he the guy who with only destroyers managed to sink one USN Heavy Cruiser and put three more out of action for the better part of a year?
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One and the same. He was later relieved and spent the rest of the war commanding shore facilities in China. He was promoted to VADM in 1944, and died in 1976. Damn shame he never wrote his memoirs.
 
Thorthemighty said:
I can imagine that the USN breathed a sigh of relief once he got taken off the frontlines. Mostly because I doubt that the USN could stomach many more battles like that.
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eh given how 1943 went I'd say getting pulled from the front did more to help him than it did the americans. I give him 50/50 odds of surviving until april and pretty much zero chance of surviving until 44. As it stands I'd only give him about 50/50 of survivng 1942 in this timeline since the American torpedo issue is the only reason Tassafaronga didn't end up looking like Vella Gulf.
 
Thorthemighty said:
I can imagine that the USN breathed a sigh of relief once he got taken off the frontlines. Mostly because I doubt that the USN could stomach many more battles like that.
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They were surprised that he was pulled from sea duty in 1943. Rear Admiral Raizo Tanaka was considered one of the finest Naval Officers in the Imperial Japanese Navy. It turned out, that Tanaka's constant protests of the orders of the Imperial Japanese Naval High Command caused him to fall into disfavor and in 1943 he was assigned to shore duty for the rest of the war.
 
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there a reason some AI that control Japan and Germany in WW2 game have to be force to make dumb decision

cause sometime, people in real life was just that dumb and hop up on their own hype juice
 
Thorthemighty said:
Tanaka? Wasn't he the guy who with only destroyers managed to sink one USN Heavy Cruiser and put three more out of action for the better part of a year?
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And 11 days after Tassafarnoga, where he inflicted such damage on TF 67 after getting surprised on a run of the "Tokyo Express":, Teruzuki was his flagship on another supply run. She was torpedoed by a couple of PT boats, caught fire, burned and was sunk that night. Tanaka was wounded and was laid up for a few weeks. Combined Fleet HQ decided to blame him for the failures at Guadalcanal, relieved him of command of the 2nd Destroyer Squadron, and then put him on the beach in Rangoon for the rest of the war. That's why Teruzuki would be such a mess concerning her Admiral, blaming herself for his dishonor and demotion.
 
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Spectre said:
eh given how 1943 went I'd say getting pulled from the front did more to help him than it did the americans. I give him 50/50 odds of surviving until april and pretty much zero chance of surviving until 44. As it stands I'd only give him about 50/50 of survivng 1942 in this timeline since the American torpedo issue is the only reason Tassafaronga didn't end up looking like Vella Gulf.
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A favorite war game scenario of a number of my friends, would be to replay the Battle of Cape St George, between Arleigh Burke and Raizo Tanaka.
 
Well I did do a small little snip of Jintsuu being surprised that Tanaka found out about her when he asked her why her dress was orange. And he complained about her constantly rearranging his desk, thanks to that he could never find anything after she had done so.

No word on the canonicity of that bit.
 
MagisterAurelius said:
Well I did do a small little snip of Jintsuu being surprised that Tanaka found out about her when he asked her why her dress was orange. And he complained about her constantly rearranging his desk, thanks to that he could never find anything after she had done so.

No word on the canonicity of that bit.
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I would welcome more of Jintsuu and Admiral Tanaka, with perhaps an additional story about him and Teruzuki.
 
MagisterAurelius said:
Well I did do a small little snip of Jintsuu being surprised that Tanaka found out about her when he asked her why her dress was orange. And he complained about her constantly rearranging his desk, thanks to that he could never find anything after she had done so.
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Has this been posted? Must read.
Jrandom said:
I would welcome more of Jintsuu and Admiral Tanaka, with perhaps an additional story about him and Teruzuki.
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I would enjoy reading that as well. If things play out here as in OTL, perhaps Jintsu can be sent to RADM Tanaka's command after she has been sunk and returns as a shipgirl.
 
Thorthemighty said:
Tanaka? Wasn't he the guy who with only destroyers managed to sink one USN Heavy Cruiser and put three more out of action for the better part of a year?
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Another American "torpedo issue" was that the Type 93 'Long Lance' had such greater range than anything else in the world at the time. Not knowing about it, for half the war American units operated assuming the IJN destroyers had to get within gun range to launch torpedoes like everyone else, which they didn't. Thus at first they didn't understand why their ships kept exploding. Even worse, the Bureau of Ordinance had received a full set of specs before the war, but dismissed it out of hand because "surely they couldn't build better torpedoes than us?"

(Edit: changed wording)

MagisterAurelius said:
Well I did do a small little snip of Jintsuu being surprised that Tanaka found out about her when he asked her why her dress was orange. And he complained about her constantly rearranging his desk, thanks to that he could never find anything after she had done so.

No word on the canonicity of that bit.
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Lol, this is great. we need more of this.
 
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Andys Asassin said:
Another American "torpedo issue" was that the Type 93 'Long Lance' had such greater range than anything else in the world at the time. Not knowing about it, for half the war American units operated assuming the IJN destroyers had to get within gun range to launch torpedoes like everyone else, which they didn't. Thus at first they didn't understand why their ships kept exploding. Even worse, the Bureau of Ordinance had received a full set of specs before the war, but dismissed it out of hand because "surely they couldn't build better torpedoes than us?"
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The Type 93 being wakeless and much faster with a bigger warhead added to the Americans' headaches as well
 
Andys Asassin said:
Another American "torpedo issue" was that the Type 93 'Long Lance' had such greater range than anything else in the world at the time. Not knowing about it, for half the war American units operated assuming the IJN destroyers had to get within gun range to launch torpedoes like everyone else, which they didn't. Thus at first they didn't understand why their ships kept exploding. Even worse, the Bureau of Ordinance had received a full set of specs before the war, but dismissed it out of hand because "surely they couldn't build better torpedoes than us?"
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This is... not true.

It is absolutely true that Type 93s had ridiculous range- it's just that it doesn't matter. No matter how long ranged you are, you can't hit anything at that extreme range, so it's pretty useless.

To hit something at 20km, the travel time of the torpedo is around 13 minutes- far too much to be even remotely practical.
In real terms, the actual effective range was 5-6km, similar to any other torpedo. At that distance, you have a travel time of "just" three minutes, which is actually somewhat useful.
There's a reason why IJN torpedo hit rates didn't break 5%- the Type 93 was a good torpedo, yeah, but it was hardly a gamechanger, as the IJN learned.
 
Andys Asassin said:
Another American "torpedo issue" was that the Type 93 'Long Lance' had such greater range than anything else in the world at the time. Not knowing about it, for half the war American units operated assuming the IJN destroyers had to get within gun range to launch torpedoes like everyone else, which they didn't. Thus at first they didn't understand why their ships kept exploding. Even worse, the Bureau of Ordinance had received a full set of specs before the war, but dismissed it out of hand because "surely they couldn't build better torpedoes than us?"
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*eyes the BuOrd*



Yes. Yes they could.

EDIT: Not because the Long Lance (which didn't even get that name until after the war) was so spectacularly good, but mostly because the Mark 14 was so spectacularly BAD.
 
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Ok so this revelation just hit me after re-reading Sheo's omake. Since Hina brought back Tosa, Amagi, and the original Naka it appears that being unfinished does not preclude a ship from coming back. Does this mean that, in theory, Sara and Lex could see their long lost sisters again?
 
The rest of Sara's battlecruiser sisters never got completed past 35% or so. The IJN examples were far further along. The only US possibility of an uncompleted ship being summoned would be BB-47, the forgotten Colorado sister USS Washington. And then she might just be miffed because her name got passed off to another, and possible lingering issues of being selected for target practice disposal by what seems to be only historically explainable by the equivalent of a coin flip.
 
It becomes a lot easier to torpedo a target that's sailing in a straight line, and putting 16 torpedoes in the water per destroyer, then doubling that with reloads, puts an awful lot of fish in the water against unsuspecting targets. Even if that gets low hit rates, every other weapon at the time did too, all being unguided. For its time the Type 93 was rather effective, it just wasn't enough to offset other American advantages.

MagisterAurelius said:
The rest of Sara's battlecruiser sisters never got completed past 35% or so. The IJN examples were far further along. The only US possibility of an uncompleted ship being summoned would be BB-47, the forgotten Colorado sister USS Washington. And then she might just be miffed because her name got passed off to another, and possible lingering issues of being selected for target practice disposal by what seems to be only historically explainable by the equivalent of a coin flip.
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I don't really know about it, but I think a good benchmark of what could become a shipgirl would be launchability. So kind of, if it can be floated out of drydock or sent down the slipway without diving to the seabed it's a ship.
 
Andys Asassin said:
It becomes a lot easier to torpedo a target that's sailing in a straight line, and putting 16 torpedoes in the water per destroyer, then doubling that with reloads, puts an awful lot of fish in the water against unsuspecting targets. Even if that gets low hit rates, every other weapon at the time did too, all being unguided. For its time the Type 93 was rather effective, it just wasn't enough to offset other American advantages.
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First off, reloading takes a long time- certainly not long enough to be part of the same salvo. This isn't a video game, and lugging around several dozen tons of torpedo takes time.

And the Type 93 wasn't just unable to offset the American disadvantages- it wasn't unable to offset its own disadvantages. The weight penalty and risk the launching ships ships far, far outweighed the benefits that it gave.
 
Wobulator said:
First off, reloading takes a long time- certainly not long enough to be part of the same salvo. This isn't a video game, and lugging around several dozen tons of torpedo takes time.

And the Type 93 wasn't just unable to offset the American disadvantages- it wasn't unable to offset its own disadvantages. The weight penalty and risk the launching ships ships far, far outweighed the benefits that it gave.
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Reloads take a long time, but the Japanese could still do it much faster than anyone else due to their dedicated systems. The whole reason the Japanese did that was so they could have a second salvo in the water and closing by the time the first salvo reached the target. The Type 93 had two speed/range settings because of this, going 22,000 yards at 49 knots or 44,000 yards at 36 knots. The destroyers would launch one salvo from extreme range at the slower speed and continue closing before launching another salvo at the higher speed. The big deal was they could launch so many large torpedoes so quickly, at distances which outranged every battleship in service. Compared with games like World of Warships, they could launch torpedoes at 20,000 to 36,000 km against targets sailing in straight lines that may not have known they were there. Because they used them at the extreme limits of their range, their hit ratio was rather low, and arguably they could have gotten better results from closing in a little more.

Personally I would take electric torpedoes over these because of their volatility, but they are still fascinating in their own right.

Here's a link to Drachinifel's documentary on the Type 93 if anyone's interested: Type 93 Long Lance Torpedo - Long Range Hole Poking Device - YouTube
 
Here's the thing about ship completion percentage. BB-47 USS Washington was 75% complete when the decision was made to use her as a target. Her turrets and loading hoists had yet to be installed, no guns were mounted, there was no permanent superstructure (only a temporary pilothouse to use for launching purposes), heck she didn't even have her boilers or turbines installed yet. She had to be towed to the target area. And that's 75% completion.

For Sara's sisters? There wasn't even enough hull completed to float like a raft, let alone launch and be watertight. What was there was literally disassembled/scrapped in place.
 
MagisterAurelius said:
Here's the thing about ship completion percentage. BB-47 USS Washington was 75% complete when the decision was made to use her as a target. Her turrets and loading hoists had yet to be installed, no guns were mounted, there was no permanent superstructure (only a temporary pilothouse to use for launching purposes), heck she didn't even have her boilers or turbines installed yet. She had to be towed to the target area. And that's 75% completion.

For Sara's sisters? There wasn't even enough hull completed to float like a raft, let alone launch and be watertight. What was there was literally disassembled/scrapped in place.
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Yeah figured as much, mostly just wishful thinking on my part.

Though Sky has written a snip with Constellation showing up as a shipgirl before. Granted it's not in the context of this fic.
 
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