Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
- Location
- United States of America
So here's a thought I just had. On a civilian cargo ship, if the crew was in a maritime workers union, would the shipgirl join the union and how would this affect labor disputes if both the crew and the ship refuse to work during a strike? Would this make it impossible for the company to break a strike because you can't really send strike breakers after a group that has a shipgirl in it.
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- Location
- In the depts of despair.
Hard to say, it would probably depend of what the sailors and dockrats are asking for. If they are asking for money or time-off I think that the ship wouldn't join but if they are asking for additional safety measures, like during the Port of Chicago Mutiny, the girlship would probably add her banner to the strike.
- Location
- United States of America
Maybe, but if the crew can convince her to join the union, which wouldn't be hard for a crew that takes good care of their ship, she would probably be all in for the union thing.
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
One thing that we should not forget is that a ship wants to do what its build for, a warship for is made to fight, a scientific exploration vessel wants to learn about the unknown, and a cargo ship desires and needs to work and move. Consider that transport ships get to stay in port less than even the mightiest nuclear carrier and that their entire design sacrifices everything in exchange for the ability to move great amounts of cargo with reliability. And that's not touching the issue that a transport ship is designed to operate as cheaply as possible, so they are probably misers by design that love their crews but would not buy them anything out of their own pocket much less sacrifice time in the open seas for something like demands from the greedy union leaders desiring extra salary or additional port visits.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Also this would be no-shit during a time of war and strikes were largely forbidden in the labor market during WWII anyway by agreement among the primary unions. People forget that organized labor in the 1930-40s was much weaker than it was during the 1960s. Trying to strike during a war, especially in a vital national security area like longshoremen, runs the not-insignificant risk of the National Guard being called out with fairly broad public support. The primary other influence on the labor union movement was Soviet Communism, and they were pushing to beat Germany (and Japan) since the Germans were attacking Mother Russia.
Also WWII had extreme demand for labor because a large chunk of the white male population was in uniform, hence the massive entrance of blacks and women into jobs that formerly would have been restricted to white men like factory work and shipbuilding.
As noted, if it was unsafe working conditions, maybe, but I can't see wages and benefits flying. The level of unity toward tightening belts on the Home Front to support 'our boys' fighting for America is hard to overstate. Even unsafe working conditions would have to be couched very carefully since the priority was supporting the war effort and you lacked a large chunk of the regulatory state like OSHA and the EPA in this timeframe. Totally different risk/reward calculus in an era where people were happy to have a job coming out of the Great Depression.
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- Location
- United States of America
I was hypothesizing for the post war world.
- Location
- Pacific NW
IOTL, the Merchant Marine due to the dangers of the "Kola Run" to Archangel and Murmansk and the very likelyhood of certain death, were successful in the courts at telling the Navy/War Dept that they were not members of the military and therefore had to be paid higher wages than military rates. (Which is what the Navy was trying to make the Merchant Marine members work at.) This did come back to hit them later as the govt used that reasoning to say that they didn't qualify for things like the GI Bill or recognition of bravery, etc since they got their rewards in pay.
PAGDTenno
Verified Warmind. Probably on fire.
- Location
- South Carolina
Replace the maybe with a "almost certainly". Industrial accidents play merry hell with schedules.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Well yes, but that again depends on what the problem is. Something like Port Chicago, sure, if the shipgirl realized what the problem was before getting vaporized (that was a training problem). Or the mess the US Navy had in Pearl Harbor during 1944 with the chain detonation on the LSTs getting loaded for the Marianas.
Well you may want to take it to the general Kancolle thread then, since it is not quite relevant for this story. I'd prefer not to get into trouble for a derail.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
According to the father of a friend of mine, the Merchant Marine from WWII eventually earned veteran's benefits.
Veterans' Benefits: Eligibility of Merchant Mariners
- Location
- North Carolina
If the IJN sticks to the historical plan, then the ugly thing that was the Guadalcanal Campaign will happen again. Because shortly after taking Rabaul, the Japanese started building an airstrip on Guadalcanal which threatened the convoy routes that fed Australia. Some of the events will change due to butterflies from the Kido Butai getting mauled, but one naval battle regardless will happen again: The Battle of Savo Island. Four American Heavy Cruisers were sunk outright in that action, USS Chicago lost a portion of her bow to a Type 93, and the Australian Heavy Cruiser HMAS Canberra was so badly mauled that she had to be scuttled. The battle was thanks to the Japanese Naval Element of the counter-offensive striking. That battle was where we really found out just how damn good the Japanese were at naval actions at night.
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
Yeah, but some of the reasons it went so bad were the lack of understanding of radar and some carelessness with the destroyer picket line. With Thompson doing exercises from a year before and having the support of the current CO of the Pacific Fleet I think some of the tactical manuals must have been updated to counter some of those problems even if Thompson was able to use only his escort forces as examples of Do's and Don'ts for naval surface preparation, with that and some basic precautions the naval surface units will have more of a fighting chance and the outcome will not be as disastrous.
- Location
- North Carolina
I think part of that problem stemmed from the fact that the ships didn't have a uniform radar model which sort of complicated matters. Plus, the American Destroyer that encountered the Japanese on the way in, one of them was a Clemson that had been shot to shit earlier in the day by Japanese aircraft and didn't have a working radio, one did but didn't spot the blacked out Japanese ships.
Joyful_Overkill
satisfaction in knowing your enemy won't survive.
Dear Friends,
let us have a moment of silence to Remember Pearl Harbor.
let us have a moment of silence to Remember Pearl Harbor.
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Chapter 51
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Chapter 51
"Welcome back to the world of the living, James."
Admiral Thompson cracked an eye open, wincing at the sudden barrage of sunlight. Birds chirped and the faint sound of wind whistled in through an open window. Soft curtains shifted in the breeze, and in the distance, nurses bustled around. The Admiral, wincing with every movement, opened his eyes fully. A green gaze shifted over the room. Clearly a hospital. Smiling women carrying around supplies and dishes, whispering to men swaddled in blankets and bandages. More men than he would have expected.
Unless--
"You're in Pearl, Admiral." A much softer voice, in contrast to the gruff male one that spoke first, rang in his ears. A very familiar voice.
Twisting his head slightly, despite the protests his body screamed at him, Thompson blinked owlishly. Utah smiled at him, a hand idly twirling in her long grey hair. Equally grey eyes looked...less tired than before. Lines still crisscrossed her face and there was still a crease in her forehead. Even with that, though, the battleship looked far better than she had. The last time he had seen her--
Well.
At least she wasn't covered in soot and burns now.
"Utah?" Thompson croaked, painfully pulling himself up. His lips twitched into a pained scowl, even as he came to rest on his pillow. The Admiral looked down on himself, and grimaced deeply at what he saw. Bandages, some redder than others, covered his chest and arms. "What happened?"
The battleship gently reached a calloused hand out, setting it on Thompson's. "You don't remember, do you?"
Thompson closed his eyes, and leaned back. What was the last thing he remembered? They were fighting off Wake. He had been giving orders to his crew, to Sara. The Japanese were counterattacking, like they always did. Why couldn't he...
"Admiral, get down!"
Green eyes shot open, as that panicked, fearful, scream echoed in his ears. If he were in any condition to do it, he would have shot out of bed. Instead, he lurched forward---and fell back, only able to manage a pained whisper of, "Sara!"
Utah stared at him sadly, shaking her head slightly. Beside her, swimming into focus, was a more familiar face. Chiseled and grizzled, Richardson frowned down at the younger Admiral. It had been his gravelly voice that had first woken Thompson. And now, he was staring with a mix of pity and resignation in his expression. Not exactly something one wanted to see from a commanding officer. It was rather hard for Thompson to care at the moment though.
"What happened to her?" He ground out, fighting past the pain from--from--
Well, everything, really.
Richardson reached a hand up and pinched his brow, "Saratoga put into dock a few days ago. We patched up her stack and sent her on to Bremerton for a full refit. You're damn lucky that Jap wasn't carrying any bombs, you know."
"Bombs?"
A sigh answered that question, Richardson shaking his head. "She said you wouldn't remember that. A Jap decided he wanted to take a few of us with him. Rammed his plane right below the bridge. Saratoga is fairly convinced you would have died if she hadn't protected you."
Thompson frowned. He faintly, faintly, remembered Sara tackling him. Nothing more. Had he really survived a kamikaze? More importantly, though, Sara had survived. He wouldn't have wanted to live if she died. Utah may have been standing right there, proving that the girls could still come back. It didn't matter. If Sara died from his orders, under his command...no. He'd rather die himself.
I can't let her die.
"In any case, we have a lot to talk about." Richardson continued, waving a hand at Utah.
The battleship took that as a sign to take over, smiling apologetically at the Admiral. "Before I say anything else, promise me you won't be angry at Little E for this."
"Angry at Enterprise?" Thompson blinked, tilting his head to the side. That hurt less than actually shrugging. "Why in the world would I be angry at her?"
"...she told Halsey." Utah's smile turned frail and small, as her grey eyes looked resolutely forward. At the wall, not Thompson.
A man who had paled, blood fading from his face as his heart began to race a mile a minute. No no nononononononononono---
"I...she..."
Words failed him. Thompson vaguely felt that the doctors would be worried about the sudden spike in his pulse. He was far more worried about the sheepish look Utah was sending him. The stony and unreadable expression on Richardson's face. It was impossible to tell what he was thinking. Thompson didn't know what he himself was thinking. His mind raced a mile a minute, his eyes frantically scanned over the suddenly quiet room. Looking for exits. Even if he couldn't even move in his bed.
Not that there were any exits. There was merely one, large, doorway. And dozens of occupied beds, filled with wounded from Wake or Pearl. Even the open windows seemed to squeeze in on him now, an inescapable vice.
What am I going to do? I was starting to think...I was starting to think it never would get out. I could just live my life, without anyone but the girls knowing. I...I don't know what to do.
For the first time, he felt real fear. Even the Abyssals hadn't brought out this primal, terrifying, fear.
"Admiral...Admiral..." Utah was suddenly in his face, worry overtaking any other expression. The motherly battleship was shaking his shoulders gently, grey eyes wide. "Admiral!"
Behind her, Richardson pulled his glasses from his face, sighing deeply. "Well, if I had any doubts, that just took them away."
"Why did she do that?" It was all he could do, to ask that simple question. Green eyes bored into Utah's grey, desperately seeking an answer.
An answer the battleship couldn't give him. She could only shake her head, leaning back slightly. "Enterprise didn't say. I was under the impression that Admiral Halsey forced her to explain."
Thompson laughed. Weakly, and without any real humor. "That would be just like him, wouldn't it? What am I going to do now...? They'll throw me in a cell and throw away the key."
"Hardly." Richardson snorted, replacing his glasses. Behind them, his eyes were narrowed flints, all hardened steel. "If nothing else, I refuse to lose such a talented commander...and I know, better than anyone, that the girls don't trust anyone like they do you."
"What can you really do?" The younger Admiral couldn't meet those eyes. All he could do, was look down at his lap. Clench his hands, biting back a groan of pain. "At any rate, you probably think I'm crazy."
Richardson sat down, right next to Thompson's bed. The older man stared at the younger one, raising one single eyebrow. "Perhaps. However, you have yet to be wrong. It would be foolish of me to dismiss anything out of hand. After all---"
Here, he waved a hand at Utah. Who flushed pink, looking down at her grey dress. She smoothed it down, while Richardson turned his eyes back on Thompson.
"---our ships have spirits, of young women. Compared to that, whatever happened to you is...hardly a leap of faith." Lips twitching into a small smile, the old Admiral shook his head. He ran a hand through his thinning hair, and sighed softly. "At any rate, that is a discussion for another time. Too many prying eyes, right now."
Thompson looked past Richardson, and saw more than one man 'asleep' in their bed. Yeah, he could really do without the truth spreading more than it needed to. Loose lips sank ships.
Literally.
"As soon as you're recovered, we're going to have a long discussion, Admiral Thompson." Richardson climbed back to his feet, spinning around to leave the room. "I would also expect the President to have a lot of questions. After all, there is a lot you could tell him."
The Admiral swept out of the room, leaving Thompson alone with Utah.
...I just want to go back to sleep. Maybe this is all a bad dream?
"I am sorry, for all of this." Utah spoke up, looking at Thompson out of the corner of her eye. She looked genuinely apologetic. "After everything you've done for us..."
"It's not your fault." Thompson replied, voice dull and listless. "Was bound to come out eventually, yeah?"
Neither of them had any reply for that. They merely sat in silence, together, while Thompson wondered how his life would move forward. And Utah wondered how she could help him. This man had given her everything and she had a way to repay it now, if only she could figure it out...
While Thompson stewed in his worry, the battleship that had once felt something for him, sat at her mooring. Arizona blinked brown eyes, looking up at the sky. She was laid out atop her number two turret, idly twirling a lock of thick red hair. She could feel men inside her, hammering away at burst plates and bomb damage. Making her fit to sail back to the West Coast and a more permanent refit, just like Saratoga. At one point, she may have felt jealous of the carrier.
Now she just worried about her.
Though, that worry was subsumed under her own conflicting feelings.
I should be dead right now. That's a strange feeling.
Ari clenched her hand, holding it up above her eyes. A cloud lazily drifted by behind it, giving the appearance of her hand clenching it. A soft giggle escaped the battleship at the thought, even as she frowned slightly. It was difficult to explain. Admiral Thompson had told her she died, on December 7th, 1941. That day had come and gone.
So had the attack that killed her, but that at least felt different. Surviving an attack was one thing. Living past the day she should have 'died' was another entirely. It was...weird.
"I should be dead," Ari repeated aloud, letting her hand fall, as she rolled onto her side. Her eyes drifted over to where Cali lay at rest. The fires had long since gone out, leaving a burnt ruin, metal torn and twisted. Biting her lip, Ari felt a strange mix of sadness and relief in her heart. "Cali..."
California had taken her place, in more ways than one. She should feel bad about that, but part of her felt glad to be alive.
"Come on, keep at it! I want the repairs finished yesterday!"
"Yes sir!"
Even the shouts echoing up from the dry dock only served to make Ari frown a little. She hadn't even taken much damage in the grand scheme of things. A couple of relatively light bombs and a torpedo. It made her feel a bit guilty, when she let her eyes skip over Cali. Virginia was settled into the harbor, pounded into submission. Nevada had tried to escape, and nearly died because of it. Okie was hurt badly. Ari...felt guilty.
Guilty for being happy to live past her 'death date'.
Guilty for taking so little damage, when her cousins- sisters really -suffered so much.
Biting her lip, the battleship pulled herself to her feet. She still stumbled a little on the warm red metal, sending a baleful look down at her leg. Still covered in bruises and bandages, but at least not broken. Every painful hammer down in her hull made it a bit better. She didn't care to explain how that worked!
"Right...I need to take a walk!" Nodding to herself, hat sliding around on her head, Ari jumped off her turret. A fall that would have crippled a normal person, just sent a sharp jab up her injured leg. Leading to a wince of discomfort. "Right...don't do that again. Owwwww."
Sheepishly shaking her head at her silliness, Ari hobbled a bit while moving down her hull. Topside, she could almost convince herself she had never been attacked. Debris had long since been carried away, and damage patched. It was only below the waterline, that she still ached. And she wasn't about to go down there.
The dark didn't appeal to her, not right now. She liked the warm Hawaiian breeze on her face, and the sun shining down on her. Not to mention she had a destination in mind already.
A very specific anti-air mount. She could see it already, barrels lowered in rest and not a single man around it. She didn't know who would be taking over this mounting, or if it would even be there after her refit. From what Admiral Thompson had told her, it would probably be replaced by some sort of Swedish gun as soon as possible. As she walked up to it, she didn't know how to feel about that.
The new guns are nice, but I'm going to miss it. This is where I learned how to fight!
With a small smile crossing her youthful face, Ari reached out a hand. She gently ran it along one of the barrels of the gun. The metal was warm...but not the scalding it had been.
"Tommy, everyone, are you going to be alright?" Ari asked aloud, thinking about the Marines that had taught her to fight. Taught her that even she could do some good, if she just found a way to do it. It wasn't the gun she worried about losing. It was the men who had manned it. "I miss you..."
Crews came and went, it was a fact of life for a warship. Any ship, she imagined. Before Admiral Thompson had shown up, she hadn't really noticed. She was never that attached to anyone. Now? Ever since he had walked into her life, she became attached to more and more people. Her old Admiral. Thompson himself, though with a wan smile, she reflected that Sara had more of a claim there than she ever would. Her new Admiral and Captain, men who were like big brothers to her.
And Tommy, who had given her a purpose.
I hope he comes back, some day. I want to see him again!
Giving the gun a final, gentle, pat...Ari spun around, and leaned against the chair mounted to it. Her brown gaze swept over the harbor, looking at ships coming and going. Enterprise would return soon. And she would leave soon. Pearl was at war now, and no one stayed too long. She had been here longer than she should have been.
Ari knew she would probably never fight a proper battle. That didn't change the fact that she wanted to be out there, doing what she could. Even if it was only bombarding islands into rubble. She could do that, in memory of the her who wasn't here. Of Cali and all the others. Of the men and women who had given her a reason to live and fight.
"I need to talk to the Admiral." Mind settled, the battleship sprung up, and set out for her bridge.
She couldn't speed up the repairs, but she could at least let her officers know where the worst damage was and how to fix it. That was something!
Work has been utter hell, by the way. That is why I haven't updated anything really (Arcadia vanity project aside) since...god, the start of November. And why this took so long.
I also wanted this chapter to be longer, to make up for that, but it occurred to me that sticking Schreiber in after Ari would be...questionable pacing. Also, I try to avoid jumping around like that, nowadays. If the two scenes are related (see: Wake) that's one thing. There was no smooth transition back to Germany.
That said, it does mean I'm going to immediately, before anything else, switch over to writing our German friends. So that chapter should be up by the middle of next week at the latest. I'd love to do it today or tomorrow...but I doubt I'll be able to, with the amount I'm being slave-driven the next two days.
Regardless, I'm really sorry about how long this took. Work or no work.
(and in case the Ari bit wasn't obvious, I was really planning on putting this up on the 7th, ie, yesterday. Work was especially bad.)
still_guns
For the Empire!
- Location
- Bridge of ISS Conundrum
I take it that E told Halsey that Thompson is a future boi?
Seems that way.
Also, it's good to see Utah again. I was getting worried about her.
- Location
- Canada
This is about as questionable a bit of phrasing as World of Warships Forums where SOME PEOPLE think "ManSecs" is a Good Idea as an abbreviation of "Manual Secondaries".
floppy_seal99
D-O-G-A-R-S DOGARS!
- Location
- snooping as usual
It could be worse. I don't know how, but it could be worse.
Middish December IIRC. Everything got bumped forwards a bit by early Pearl and the historical second strike on Wake was 23 December.
- Location
- State of Denial
Ooh, the jig is up, Richardson and Halsey know Thompson's from the future now. I'm curious to see how they react to the future history, as well has that conversation with FDR.
Also, my mental picture of Halsey "forcing Enterprise to tell him" amounts to him asking her "are you going to lie to me" in a disappointed dad tone.
Also, my mental picture of Halsey "forcing Enterprise to tell him" amounts to him asking her "are you going to lie to me" in a disappointed dad tone.
- Location
- Europe
I wonder if Thompson could suggest turning the wreck of Cali into a prototype escort for the carriers.
If the damage is bad enough, using it to lenghten her, while switching her over to turbo-electric drives, could be a possible move to get her back in action.
That would give her the power needed to keep up, change course rapidly AND give more room for AA emplacements.
It probably would also be faster constructed then lets say, a Iowa class battleship.
If they would go for it, how ever.....
Well, thats another question, I bet.
But now that the cat is out of the bag in terms of Thompson being from the future, just can't see the battleship vanishing from the fleet, after WWII.
I think that the Montana class might see some spec alterations, when Thompson tells them about the Yamato, Musashi & Shinano, plus how the later is almost as big as the later early super carriers.
Ad to this the later destroyer layout, with a helicopter deck and a amphibious landing dock...
Or how the AA defences will turn back against fighterplanes...
Amphibious transport dock - Wikipedia
Replenishment oiler - Wikipedia
Auxiliary ship - Wikipedia
USS Conecuh (AOR-110) - Wikipedia and more importantly, the possibility that the Sacramento class might be thought up & constructed way sooner.
I do wonder if the United States is aware of the Number 13-class battleship or not.
If they are, could Thompson state his fears about them having turned it into the Design A-150 battleship as a cover for his knowledge of the actual Yamato class battleship?
If the damage is bad enough, using it to lenghten her, while switching her over to turbo-electric drives, could be a possible move to get her back in action.
That would give her the power needed to keep up, change course rapidly AND give more room for AA emplacements.
It probably would also be faster constructed then lets say, a Iowa class battleship.
If they would go for it, how ever.....
Well, thats another question, I bet.
But now that the cat is out of the bag in terms of Thompson being from the future, just can't see the battleship vanishing from the fleet, after WWII.
I think that the Montana class might see some spec alterations, when Thompson tells them about the Yamato, Musashi & Shinano, plus how the later is almost as big as the later early super carriers.
Ad to this the later destroyer layout, with a helicopter deck and a amphibious landing dock...
Or how the AA defences will turn back against fighterplanes...
Amphibious transport dock - Wikipedia
Replenishment oiler - Wikipedia
Auxiliary ship - Wikipedia
USS Conecuh (AOR-110) - Wikipedia and more importantly, the possibility that the Sacramento class might be thought up & constructed way sooner.
I do wonder if the United States is aware of the Number 13-class battleship or not.
If they are, could Thompson state his fears about them having turned it into the Design A-150 battleship as a cover for his knowledge of the actual Yamato class battleship?
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CV12Hornet
Riter.
- Location
- Tacoma, Washington
Really? Are we really going to do this again?
1. There is no way in hell they're rebuilding California like that. For starters, she already has a turboelectric drive. For another, the US Navy doesn't do lengthening of ships, and such a change to an already-wrecked hull would be slower and more expensive for less result than just building a new ship.
2. Why on earth would they build the Montanas? They don't need the Montanas; the US Navy was already moving away from a battleship-centric fleet before Thompson arrived, and news of the Yamatos doesn't change that. And there's no way in hell the battleships are lasting any longer than they did OTL absent serious ship spirit butterflies. They're obsolete. Period.
3. Amphibious landing docks already exist. They're called LSDs, and Japan and Britain already have the idea.
4. Helicopter decks depend on having actual, reliable helicopters. Which don't exist yet. And which consume massive amounts of space that current destroyers simply don't have.
5. Why would the US Navy care about an old 1920s design? Or that it would be turned into a modern battleship (which is impossible)? Or even need a cover for his knowledge of the Yamatos, now that the time-travel cat is out of the bag?
Vianca, you're doing that thing again. You know, the thing where you rattle off a bunch of half-baked ideas that are a. flatly unrealistic or blatantly stupid and b. are not making it into the story. Stop it.