- Location
- Pacific NW
The IJN even tried this out in OTL for the Pearl strike and lost four of their subs for their troubles. For not much of a payoff either.
Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
Another note to point out is that at least the US (and Japan) developed/made use of Magnetic Anomoly Detectors, which could be plane mounted (or ship towed). The tech was around in the 1930s, though when it started being used for shallow submarine detection, I'm not sure. It's likely a plane mounted version was responsible for the detection and near loss of the USS Halibut in late 1944 (and by near loss, I mean it was declared a constructive total loss upon return to Pearl).
This, of course, doesn't take into account radar on planes. I've seen an article indicating that the US had B-18s with MAD and airborne radar patrolling the Caribbean and Atlantic some point in 1941 up through 1943, and a PBY-2 became the first USN plane with operational radar some time in mid-1941. How many radar equipped PBY-5As do you think the USN could park on Midway and Wake (and Johnston Atoll) to do maritime patrol around them if they felt the need to deal with JP subs? Paint the PBYs black and have Black Cats with radar stalking subs in the night too.
The need of which is of course dependent on the IJN diverting from their plans for Decisive Battle enough for enemy subs to start targeting shipping around Wake in the first place. I'd wonder more about long range strikes from JP held islands as a larger threat to Wake. Nells and Bettys saying hi via 1800lbs of explosives each~
This, of course, doesn't take into account radar on planes. I've seen an article indicating that the US had B-18s with MAD and airborne radar patrolling the Caribbean and Atlantic some point in 1941 up through 1943, and a PBY-2 became the first USN plane with operational radar some time in mid-1941. How many radar equipped PBY-5As do you think the USN could park on Midway and Wake (and Johnston Atoll) to do maritime patrol around them if they felt the need to deal with JP subs? Paint the PBYs black and have Black Cats with radar stalking subs in the night too.
The need of which is of course dependent on the IJN diverting from their plans for Decisive Battle enough for enemy subs to start targeting shipping around Wake in the first place. I'd wonder more about long range strikes from JP held islands as a larger threat to Wake. Nells and Bettys saying hi via 1800lbs of explosives each~
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
That'd be a one way trip once the USN gets more fighters on wake. They can make the trip sure, they can't make the trip with escort.
- Location
- North Carolina
Night-flying. The Japanese were moderately successful with it during WWII. Towards the end of the war, it was a night raid with Betty bombers that succeeded in sticking a torpedo into Intrepid.
- Location
- United States of America
Before the first battle of Wake, the japanese bombed the island with Nells based in the Marshall islands.
Edit: This bombing raid destroyed eight of the twelve Wildcat's based on the island.
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Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
no
Kwajaelin and some of the Carolines had Japanese airbases.
Edit:
Meant the marshalls, my geography is a little bad.
Edit Edit
Oh hey, Kwajaelin is in the marshalls
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Burning Baron
This position needs more entrenching.
- Location
- In here, not out there.
Goddamn it. I even looked around. This is why I hate my sister for stealing my computer. It had a better map than mobile Google Maps.
Okay now I see them. Zoomed in to about 1 inch:100 miles. Jesus no wonder they didn't pop up.
Okay now I see them. Zoomed in to about 1 inch:100 miles. Jesus no wonder they didn't pop up.
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Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
Yep they're teeny tiny. With The Old Breed and other memoirs like it detail the absolutely ridiculous defense the IJN/A put up during those campaigns. All for little pieces of coral smaller than most counties in the US.
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Archduke
Don't Take Geology Puns For Granite
- Location
- Texas
So one thing in regards to Singapore falling again is where they would be able to base at least 3 capital ships, along with a bunch of cruisers and DDs, and whatever else makes it out. I don't know of many out there. The closest ones would be in the Indian ocean, or perhaps Australia.
- Location
- United States of America
Tarawa was basically a runway with some beach and palm trees around it and look at how bloody it was.
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
They were bloody because they were tiny, no space to flank, to consolidate and cover or to retreat. In the end no amount of tactical finesse can make a frontal assault against a prepared and entrenched enemy any less dangerous, and during Tarawa the americans were lucky that while the naval support didn't destroy most fortifications it did cut all communications between defenders and killed their commander and staff, during the first night the Marines were one coordinated counterattack from being massacrated.
- Location
- United States of America
I just realized we're only a few posts away from page 400.
- Location
- United States of America
With Wake secured for now, a thought came to me. The Japanese home island is now well with in range of the PBY. This means that we could see Black Cats raiding Japan at night if they could get fueled on the way back from their attack. Is it even possible to refuel a PBY from a submarine. This could throw a major wrench in the Japanese if the US can start launching even minor strikes on the Home Island.
- Location
- Kansas
You sure? Most of what I know of bombing campaigns may just be over Germany(Mighty 8th for the win) But won't those PBYs be going against Japanese zeros? Their air force should still be going strong.
- Location
- State of Denial
Not if they go in at night. But it would be pinpricks at best damage wise
CompassJimbo
Where’s Your North?
- Location
- The former Rubber Capital of the World
Assuming that nobody spots and intercepts them before the sun goes down. Japan still has airbases and land-based interceptors, IIRC.
- Location
- United States of America
That's true but even if they are spotted by a picket ship on the way there I don't think japan has any land based radar installations or night fighters that are radar are equipped so if they can get in and get out all during the night they should be mostly untouchable.
- Location
- Kansas
Granted, you run into the problem the RAF had when doing their bombing campaign. Namely, YOU CAN'T BLOODY SEE THE TARGET. The RAF got around the problem by following the river and indiscriminately bombing a town you see, OR forming elite bomber squadrons to drop flares on the target so the other more numerous bombers can hit it. Granted, both solutions assume you have a fleet of bombers with a large bomb payload... something the PBY doesn't have.
CompassJimbo
Where’s Your North?
- Location
- The former Rubber Capital of the World
My point is them being spotted and intercepted before sundown. They're safe-ish during night, sure, but if they're caught before darkness covers them, they're pretty much fucked.
- Location
- United States of America
I know but without radar it will be hard to vector interceptors quick enough without the PBY's getting being close enough once the sun sets.
Spectre
eternal servant to the Fire/EMS gods
- Location
- NY
Are there any bases even close enough for be running fighters near Wake though.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
Uh Japan itself? They do have picket ships pretty damn far out, fishing boats and the like that report back any aircraft sightings.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Minami-Tori-shima - Wikipedia and the Bonins like Iwo Jima are kinda sorta in the flight path between Wake and Japan, especially southern Japan. Marcus Island is actually almost directly along the flight path Wake to Tokyo and had a IJN garrison and airstrip established in the 1930s.
So, yes, you can expect intercepts there if you tried to do attacks out of Wake. Marcus/Minami Tori-shima is basically Tarawa 2.0 in being an airstrip surrounded by a beach and reef. It is ~800 miles from Wake, so you can't expect realistic fighter cover over Wake from it (you are right at the fringe of the range on an A6M2 Zero with no margin for dogfighting), but Marcus could certainly cause issues with long range bombing strikes launched from Wake.
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- Location
- United States of America
But again, this relies on someone having seen the PBYs, and then any fighters sent out to find them actually finding them. All these risks might be considered worth it to start lunching what are basically Doolittle raids but them happening more often and making Wake a major threat to Japan.
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Also if they fly a route that starts them off heading North-East they can avoid these islands.
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- Location
- Pacific Northwest
Unless you can get squadrons of B-17s or B-24s to stage your raids, any attempt to hit the Home Islands is only of nuisance value. PBYs can't carry enough of a bomb load to make it worthwhile to hit any strategic targets, and they're too slow, too ungainly, and too lightly armed. Land-based fighters will make scrap metal of them. It's a waste of aircraft, men, and resources that could be better used elsewhere.
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