Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

Aren't the Japanese already withdrawing? The landing force is expending itself in Banzai charges; I don't think they'd do that unless they figure the fight for Wake is already over.
Hard to say. In the war in China Banzai charges were considered a valid tactic for the japanese since the chinese troops lacked enough firepower to stop them, it was only against allied modern rifles and automatic weapons that it became a literal suicidal tactic. At this point of the war the commander might be trying for a fast but costly win instead of a swift death.
 
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Considering the not-so-minor miracle accomplished with Yorktown before Midway, I'd say a two weeks to a month is possible, but I'd also say three to six to do everything right.

Exactly. Barring a Midway-level intel coup where Rochefort's boys break JN-25 to read the next op order that is in a position that the USN can do something about (AKA 'Not the DEI'/Singapore) where they need Sara patched up now like Yorktown was after Coral Sea or Enterprise after Eastern Solomons, they are going to do her repairs right. For starters, Thompson when he wakes up and Sara will both be looking to get their hands on better medium and light AA weapons (which probably means that they will be screaming to Chrysler to hurry up and ship them some new-built 40mm Bofors).

That's all superstructure damage, cut away the damaged stack sections and replace it, repair the front end of the island, fix up the damaged hangar, and fix the deck hole. The first three things can all be done at the same time, and fixing the hole for good can be added a short time in after you craned down all the heavy stuff you want to move into (or out of) the hangar via the hole.

That we know of. No telling what else will be found that needs repairing when she gets to Pearl like fragments from the stack hit heading down into her machinery spaces through the updrafts, or any fire damage inside her hangar warping structural members.

...even if it was a 'glancing hit' on the island, its SIX THOUSAND POUNDS of aircraft hurtling at something that's pretty squishy, in terms of structure. Sara says she can make what 25 knots? of her 30+? She's got engine damage of some sort and can't effectively sortie aircraft until she gets the hole in her deck patched over and the chunk/hole/whatever in her stack fixed.

A big question is how fast Sara needs to be able to go to launch aircraft. It is possible that she might be out of commission if she has to do 28+ knots to get enough lift on her planes and the stack restricts her to 25 (plus the hole in the deck).

As another thing to consider... Japan doesn't park planes on the flight deck. IIRC, they land a plane, send it to the hanger, then land the next plane. Kaga doesn't have a flight deck. This means Hiryu will have to take all of her surviving planes plus all of Kaga's surviving planes. What happens should she run out of hanger space for planes? I mean, she did take losses at Pearl and more losses at Wake, and the same for Kaga, so they don't have full air groups to juggle onto a single carrier currently, but they apparently had the largest surviving air groups since they were the two deployed despite being from different CarDivs.

Conceivably, they could shrug off decades of doing things different and deck park what planes they can. More likely, I'd think, they tell the remaining planes in the air to ditch once the hanger's full. Which means there will likely be more air crew losses, because mistakes during water landing, unexpected issues post-landing due to battle damage or injury, sunset, bad weather, and incoming airstrikes (among other options) can all result in loss of crews in addition to the actual planes that'll need replacing due to ditching.

Probably recover all the aircraft that they can, push any that they cannot get in the hangars/are damaged over the sides after getting the aircrew out. We know from Midway that Hiryu recovered the survivors of the other three carriers to form a composite CAP from planes that were in the air when Kaga, Akagi, and Soryu got hit so it is not a stretch to say that Hiryu will take Kaga's orphans if any were in the air when Kaga brewed up.

Hard to say. In the war in China Banzai charges were considered a valid tactic for the japanese since the chinese troops lacked enough firepower to stop them, it was only against allied modern rifles and automatic weapons that it became a literal suicidal tactic. At this point of the war the commander might be trying for a fast but costly win instead of a swift death.

Also at this point in time the USMC, especially the garrison units was not as well-armed as it was later. Note that the Marine POV character is using a 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle versus a M1 Garand, BAR, or Thompson SMG, which he would be using in 1943. So a Banzai charge is marginally less suicidal now than it would be on Guadalcanal or Saipan when the Marines had many more automatic weapons and machine guns.

I agree that the commander of the SNLF troops that got ashore is probably trying to bull over the Marines because it worked in China. Here...not so much.

One thing that I'm concerned about is what the IJN might learn out of this. Granted, that's a bit of a reach for them, it's still a concern.
Bwahahahaha. The IJN learn.

You crack me up. :V
To be fair, they did eventually figure out that they couldn't Kantai Kessen the USN into submission. Of course, there wasn't much of an IJN left at that point...

Um, probably learn that Carriers burn good?

Apart from that and realizing that the USN is using multi-carrier groupings like the IJN, I don't have much. I expect one way or another, they will report Sara was mortally wounded and on her way to the bottom. I would also expect any surviving pilots to note the lethality of SBDs and that Wildcats are very robust foes.
 
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Or they just land the plane and after the crew exits, they push the plane off the flight deck.
...

You know, I completely forgot about that as an option. Now I feel embarrassed. The only way it could work out for me is if someone pointed out that Japan didn't shove perfectly good planes off the deck or something. Probably not going to be the case.
 
...

You know, I completely forgot about that as an option. Now I feel embarrassed. The only way it could work out for me is if someone pointed out that Japan didn't shove perfectly good planes off the deck or something. Probably not going to be the case.

I would figure the planes that go into the drink would be the damaged ones first. But yes, land the planes, get the aircrew out, then if you have more aircraft than room, start donating the extras to Davey Jones.

You forgot about Operation Frequent Wind? You silly goose. Bunches of Huey's and Chinooks just over the side.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Little E donated some slightly used USN aircraft to the Northern Pacific Seabed Reef Project as well. Even with deck parking and combat losses, she is not all THAT big and I believe that both Sara and E had a full load of planes.
 
Or they just land the plane and after the crew exits, they push the plane off the flight deck.

The problem for them is that Japan really cannot afford to lose any more Zeroes.

Unless we want Third Wake to look like a Midway-tier stomp from a shortage of Zeroes, that is, and this time WITHOUT Zuikaku and Shokaku being in reserve.

Given the depleted air groups and the Southern Resource Area needs though, Third Wake is likely to be in May 1942 at earliest. More than enough time for Sara to be fixed up and for Hornet to join the fleet.

Sara, Lex, Yorktown, E, Hornet, and Wake (unsinkable!) versus Akagi, Soryu, Zuikaku and Shoukaku is, to put it mildly, a match-up that does not favour the Japanese. And if intel intercepts are taken into account, along with massive IJN pilot and airframe attrition...

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Little E donated some slightly used USN aircraft to the Northern Pacific Seabed Reef Project as well. Even with deck parking and combat losses, she is not all THAT big and I believe that both Sara and E had a full load of planes.

Another possibility is to tell the Wake detachment to strafe the Japanese on Wake and LAND ON WAKE until it is determined how much hangar space E still has for planes.

E should be able to take back the survivors of the entire Strike, even if in two batches (limited deck parking room), becuase the TBDs were slaughtered and there was a significant number of planes sent to bolster Wake's air defences already.
 
The problem for them is that Japan really cannot afford to lose any more Zeroes.

Japan can afford even less to lose Zero pilots and Zeroes. They are going to be thinking about keeping Hiryu combat ready and parking aircraft on her deck because of a lack of hangar room will seriously crimp their ability to kill Enterprise.

Sure, in a vacuum they need the Zeroes, but they need the carrier to live even more.

Another possibility is to tell the Wake detachment to strafe the Japanese on Wake and LAND ON WAKE until it is determined how much hangar space E still has for planes.

E should be able to take back the survivors of the entire Strike, even if in two batches (limited deck parking room), becuase the TBDs were slaughtered and there was a significant number of planes sent to bolster Wake's air defences already.

Assuming that the runway doesn't have a battle raging on it or is behind Japanese lines. Or has a few shell craters thanks to the pre-invasion bombardment to make landing challenging.

Really the plane losses and even pilot losses are academic, since the USN will get replacement planes and pilots shipped out to Pearl ASAP. I agree that the bulk of the survivors will be SBDs and F4Fs, though.

Unless we want Third Wake to look like a Midway-tier stomp from a shortage of Zeroes, that is, and this time WITHOUT Zuikaku and Shokaku being in reserve.

Given the depleted air groups and the Southern Resource Area needs though, Third Wake is likely to be in May 1942 at earliest. More than enough time for Sara to be fixed up and for Hornet to join the fleet.

Sara, Lex, Yorktown, E, Hornet, and Wake (unsinkable!) versus Akagi, Soryu, Zuikaku and Shoukaku is, to put it mildly, a match-up that does not favour the Japanese. And if intel intercepts are taken into account, along with massive IJN pilot and airframe attrition...

Hard to say since Japan still has the strategic initiative at this stage in the war. Third Wake may or may not happen after all, depending on a lot of butterflies such as what IJN staff decides to do next, any progress on codebreaking, and other random factors like carriers wandering in front of submarines (see: Shokaku, Wasp, Saratoga, Shinano...).

Certainly the strategic situation is better entering 1942 for the USN than it was historically, but there is still a lot of war to go.
 
Meanwhile, while it's not really relevant to this story, this is the most active thread I have :V

Take a trip down memory lane to late 2016. With Sara and Jellyfish Hime just added to KC, I made some cute snips with the latter. She eventually 'recovered' from the whole 'Abyssal' thing, more or less, though she never was completely back to normal. Since I'm idly considering writing another of those:



(she has scars from the Abyssal metal on Jellyfish's body. Her scarf covers the worst of the neck scarring, though you can see a bit peaking out. Her eyes are mismatched because the blue one is still Abyssal blue. The grey is the one that is covered by metal on Jellyfish, but with the metal gone, is now back to regular (KC Sara) grey. With scarring left over)

As for in here, this was not a fun day, so I didn't get any writing done. I'll aim for updating and answering questions about Wake tomorrow. Suffice to say, I do pay attention to what people are guessing.

I just can't say anything because then I'd spoil things :V
 
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Meanwhile, while it's not really relevant to this story, this is the most active thread I have :V

Take a trip down memory lane to late 2016. With Sara and Jellyfish Hime just added to KC, I made some cute snips with the latter. She eventually 'recovered' from the whole 'Abyssal' thing, more or less, though she never was completely back to normal. Since I'm idly considering writing another of those:



(she has scars from the Abyssal metal on Jellyfish's body. Her scarf covers the worst of the neck scarring, though you can see a bit peaking out. Her eyes are mismatched because the blue one is still Abyssal blue. The grey is the one that is covered by metal on Jellyfish, but with the metal gone, is now back to regular (KC Sara) grey. With scarring left over)

As for in here, this was not a fun day, so I didn't get any writing done. I'll aim for updating and answering questions about Wake tomorrow. Suffice to say, I do pay attention to what people are guessing.

I just can't say anything because then I'd spoil things :V
well... at least we know that Sky here liked getting marshmallow hell'd with 3 Sara(CV, BC and abyssal)....
 
As long as you don't play WoWs, it's fine. With your nom de plume, you'd have problems in there.
 
You forgot about Operation Frequent Wind? You silly goose. Bunches of Huey's and Chinooks just over the side.
At first I wondered if you were making some sort of kamikaze joke, then I saw the last sentence and realized it was a Vietnam reference. Sorry, that was before my time and I tend to read WW2 history books instead. ;D
 
At first I wondered if you were making some sort of kamikaze joke, then I saw the last sentence and realized it was a Vietnam reference. Sorry, that was before my time and I tend to read WW2 history books instead. ;D
Check it out. Millions of dollars worth of choppers were pushed off the deck of Midway to make room for a teeny little Bird Dog. And that was pretty much fleet wide. Even on USS Okinawa.
 
As long as you don't play WoWs, it's fine. With your nom de plume, you'd have problems in there.
That actually was my nom de plume for more than two years before my brother ponies up the cash to change it. I was part of KNTAI for a good long while.

I have the forum signature someone made for me saved on my comp.
 
They're so cruel... and Fuso is such a lovely battleship.

I prefer to envisage her glaring at them and saying some Japanese equivalent of "Take your best shot." (Turrets track around). "And then I will do the same..."
 
Guys, Fuso's suffering at the hands of Wargaming is not the topic of this thread.
Huh. I would have thought that at this point that derail was already dead of natural causes, to be replaced by a new derail, or an update. The second is unlikely, but we can always hope.

Back to the story, I found the possibility of having stoic Kaga the PoW shipgirl interacting with the US, and getting shocked (but not showing it) at the procedures and equipment US carriers have, to be extremely unlikely but fascinating. She is also probably the most adequate to provide the cultural contrast between Japan and the US. Oh, well, a path not taken.
 
Back to the story, I found the possibility of having stoic Kaga the PoW shipgirl interacting with the US, and getting shocked (but not showing it) at the procedures and equipment US carriers have, to be extremely unlikely but fascinating. She is also probably the most adequate to provide the cultural contrast between Japan and the US. Oh, well, a path not taken.

Kaga: (stoic) "Admiral"
Thompson : (Bloody and Battered) *Stares*
Sara: M̷̨̨̡̤̥̫̠͚̦̻̱̙͖͚̰̣̥͔̦ͅI͜͢͏̸̨̪͓͉͕̰̘̺͕̜ͅN̸̡̢͕̜̮̠̰̤̩̜̮͖͔͖͎͕͍̘͝Ę̛͘͏͖͈̗͓͔̪͕̺͇̝̩ͅ!̟̱̳͍̮͕͢͠͝ *Pulls Thompson behind her and growls at Kaga*


I'm not sure Sara would be all that forgiving to Kaga at the moment...
 
I would figure the planes that go into the drink would be the damaged ones first. But yes, land the planes, get the aircrew out, then if you have more aircraft than room, start donating the extras to Davey Jones.



In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Little E donated some slightly used USN aircraft to the Northern Pacific Seabed Reef Project as well. Even with deck parking and combat losses, she is not all THAT big and I believe that both Sara and E had a full load of planes.
What's the turn-around time to get enough gas in them to get some planes to bingo to Wake? Wake just lost all their planes, so if the ones in the air can fly in a holding pattern at minimum throttle long enough for enough other planes to get gassed up and on their way to Wake, that would be a better solution.
 
That actually was my nom de plume for more than two years before my brother ponies up the cash to change it. I was part of KNTAI for a good long while.

I have the forum signature someone made for me saved on my comp.

That was probably me that made the sig for you if not Kntais first leader . If you still play wows kntai is still kicking.

Anyway can't wait for more of this story.
 
Sara: M̷̨̨̡̤̥̫̠͚̦̻̱̙͖͚̰̣̥͔̦ͅI͜͢͏̸̨̪͓͉͕̰̘̺͕̜ͅN̸̡̢͕̜̮̠̰̤̩̜̮͖͔͖͎͕͍̘͝Ę̛͘͏͖͈̗͓͔̪͕̺͇̝̩ͅ!̟̱̳͍̮͕͢͠͝ *Pulls Thompson behind her and growls at Kaga*
You know, for just a second I misread that as Sara pointing one of her Tommy guns at Kaga. I'd also would want to point out that moving an injured person is a thing to be avoided, so I'd see more likely that Sara interposed herself between Kaga and the Admiral.

Also...

Kaga: Hi, hull-bound bitch.
Sara: I'd retort to that by calling you hull-free loser, but USS Utah might not like being put in the same lot as you.
Kaga: Utah?
Sara: Yeah, she appeared after she capsized and played a number on your pilots with her AA. So, once more, you come second to an American.
<Kaga raises stoically an eyebrow>
 
You know, for just a second I misread that as Sara pointing one of her Tommy guns at Kaga. I'd also would want to point out that moving an injured person is a thing to be avoided, so I'd see more likely that Sara interposed herself between Kaga and the Admiral.

Also...

Kaga: Hi, hull-bound bitch.
Sara: I'd retort to that by calling you hull-free loser, but USS Utah might not like being put in the same lot as you.
Kaga: Utah?
Sara: Yeah, she appeared after she capsized and played a number on your pilots with her AA. So, once more, you come second to an American.
<Kaga raises stoically an eyebrow>
...fuck me, now I'm picturing Little E, thirty years down the line, dragging all of the other girls she can wrangle to a Star Trek convention.... in cosplay. With Kaga (reluctantly) as Spock.
 
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