DawnofWar32
War is coming. Prepare yourselves!
- Location
- Butuan City, The Philippines
And also seizing the opportunity to meet with Thompson and some of the American shipgirls?
Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
Hitler would never allow that, he knows the leadership of the US is sympathetic to the British and could declare for them at any time once reason is found. If the events in this timeline are happening co-currently, then since Pearl has happened, remember, even if a week early, the US and Germany are already at, if not close to, war.
edit: @DawnofWar32, family is always a weakness for resistance movements, especially ones againt hostile dictatorships like Nazi Germany. Also added into that is that, unlike the invaded nations, many Germans truly believe in Hitler and can't see him for what he is. ANY resistance has to be extra careful because of that. Hitler has popular support and an extremely effective secret police force that knows its' home territory far better than the occupied nations it is known for being effective in. Even innocent things like church and scout troops had to be extremely careful with what they did as the Gestapo and other Nazi organisations came down hard on them.
edit: @DawnofWar32, family is always a weakness for resistance movements, especially ones againt hostile dictatorships like Nazi Germany. Also added into that is that, unlike the invaded nations, many Germans truly believe in Hitler and can't see him for what he is. ANY resistance has to be extra careful because of that. Hitler has popular support and an extremely effective secret police force that knows its' home territory far better than the occupied nations it is known for being effective in. Even innocent things like church and scout troops had to be extremely careful with what they did as the Gestapo and other Nazi organisations came down hard on them.
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Would be if he even knows about him. More than likely Thompson would come to him to inspect Bismarck or someone else who saw the ship spirits and Bismarc would tell them about her admiral.
DawnofWar32
War is coming. Prepare yourselves!
- Location
- Butuan City, The Philippines
I see. Thanks for the information.
- Location
- Barcelona, Catalunya, EU (for now)
Hum. no.
Gestapo - Wikipedia
The Gestapo was part of the RSHA, which also includes the SS.
I quote:
The German people spied on the German people and then denounced it to the Gestapo. That's why the secret police was so effective.
Yes, that's why I said they were more effective in their home territory than in the occupied nations, where they were already effective. And any enforcement is made easier when people support the government, which you don't tend to get when you invade a country. The German people, who liked and supported Hitler, were more likely to report people to the Gestapo than in say France, where even if a person didn't actively resist they would more likely look the other way on suspicious activity than actively report to the invaders. Hence the increased effectiveness in Germany, and greater danger to the German resistance or even other, more innocent underground organisations.
I should have explained it better, but we're basically meaning the same thing.
I should have explained it better, but we're basically meaning the same thing.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Which is nearly impossible now since for one thing, the declaration of war is coming a week earlier than he intended, and for two sortieing a battleship is a seriously major undertaking. For better or for worse, Schreiber is stuck in occupied France.
Maybe. We don't know yet. we're all speculating.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Very true.
That said, considering the book Sky showed us that he is using for research, and Schreiber's last known location plus what we know of his plans, I think it's safe that he is someplace in Europe.
As for speculation, now that Japan has hit the USA, and presumably Hitler will perform his classic screwup by declaring war on the USA in turn, what is the Kriegsmarine's next move? Obviously sooner or later, USN fleet elements will reinforce the Royal Navy, similar to what happened in 1917-1918, so you have a very short window for Bismarck to sortie before you have to worry about her facing a NorCal or SoDak as a rough peer competitor in addition to the British capital ships.
Spectre
eternal servant to the Fire/EMS gods
- Location
- NY
If the us response is the same as OTL that windows already passed.
Which really begs the question 'What's plan B?'
Mega1987
A TTK somewhere at Kancolle's Iwagawa Airfield
- Location
- somewhere at Kancolle's Iwagawa Airfield
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Run fast, shoot straight, pray Neptune's in a good mood.
Works only if Bismarck is on the atlantic.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Not quite since it will take time for the USN to shift the Atlantic Fleet to Scapa Flow, Gibraltar, or similar forward bases. Admittedly, that's a matter of weeks to months but if Bismarck sortied right after getting the news she might only have to contend with RN ships.
The somewhat good news for her is that the Atlantic is very much going to be the secondary theater of naval operations with the bulk of the USN first line heading to the Pacific to slug it out with the IJN. So she won't have to sweat running into a Yorktown or Lexington-class CV at least, the NorCals might be a bit more iffy since they would be needed both to counter her and also to counter the Kongous.
Of course come 1943-44, all bets are well and truly off in terms of what she can expect to face.
Spectre
eternal servant to the Fire/EMS gods
- Location
- NY
Considering OTL had both Nocals operating out of Britian by the start of 42 and kept them there until June, and OTL the USN was in worse shape post Pearl, and the Atlantic was far more secure.
Second this is assuming Bismarck's even operational given the pounding she'd likely be taking from the RAF, having replaced the twins as the "nice shiny target within bombing range that even Harris can't ignore"
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
Ah but Schrieber has the ear of the Fuhrer. He could, if he wanted to, get additional assets stationed at or around Brest. No one is going to argue with him (Hitler) if he says, do the thing.
Plus even if it's in range, to get above the 88s your accuracy is gonna be piss poor from a level bomber. And you'll have to contend with the liftwaffles. The 109 had short legs but it was, for the time, a damn good interceptor and the spitfires suffered from the same short range and weren't terribly useful in an escort role, Hurricanes could make the trip, but were inferior to 109s. A full fuel load gave Spits about an hour and a half of flight time (til the later marks). You'd burn 20-30 minutes just flying to Brest, 20 or so minutes screening the bombers, then have to turn around or ditch in the channel on the way home. And this is a launching from Plymouth scenario.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Oh yes, I'm just saying that there is a very brief window before the USN can coordinate with the British, cut the movement orders, and then steam one or both NoCals to a position to counter Bismarck (either Scapa Flow, Plymouth/Southhampton, or Gibraltar depending on what the boffins in the Admiralty do with the sudden windfall of 'psst, want a FBB' from the USN). Once the NoCals make it to forward bases, Bismarck's prospects radically diminish since they are a threat to her.
This assumes that Bismarck is fitted for a fairly immediate sortie and Berlin is really on the ball in cutting movement orders for a raid or the Channel Dash to redeploy her. And, as you said, it relies on the assumption that Bomber Harris has not damaged her yet with RAF raids.
Question - why are they basing Bismarck from Brest? IRL, the only dock large enough to repair a Bismarck-class battleship on the German-occupied Atlantic coast was St.Nazaire, hence the famous commando raid there that effectively removed the threat of Tirpitz from the Atlantic. Plus, St.Nazaire is further from the UK, making it an ideal base. Assuming the commando's haven't already hit the place of course.
Edit; For reference, the commando raid was in March 1942. Bismarck and Eugen were supposed to be based out of St. Nazaire, it was the endpoint for their first raid, but, well, Bismarck sank.
Edit; For reference, the commando raid was in March 1942. Bismarck and Eugen were supposed to be based out of St. Nazaire, it was the endpoint for their first raid, but, well, Bismarck sank.
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Spectre
eternal servant to the Fire/EMS gods
- Location
- NY
while St.Nazaire has the dock, Brest is a better staging point for raiding because of its proximity to Britain.
- Location
- North Carolina
True, but I have a feeling that if Bismarck makes it their. The Royal Air Force will send every bomber it has to bomb the Bismarck into a million pieces.
Spectre
eternal servant to the Fire/EMS gods
- Location
- NY
they'll do the same regardless of which port she makes it too. The whole reason pounded Brest for 4 months straight in OTL was because they knew the threat those commerce raiders posed.
- Location
- North Carolina
Bet the Luftwaffe made them pay for it though.
That's why St. Nazaire is better though - further away means less RAF interference and more Luftwaffe interceptions. Also, no need to travel if you need repairs from a bomber strike. No point basing a ship in a port where it is both easier to attack and can't be docked to repair. If a bomber hits Bismarck and it needs a dockyard job to repair - great, now she's got to travel to St. Nazaire, while damaged, and possibly requiring a tow to do so. If the RN is on ball they will have units stationed to take advantage of that should it happen.
Proximity to Britain is not necessarily a good thing in this case.
Proximity to Britain is not necessarily a good thing in this case.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
If Bismarck has the possibility of being based at Brest, I wonder of Churchill gives Barnes Wallis the funding he needs to bring his "Tallboy" and "Blockbuster" bombs into the war in 1941 instead of 1944.