Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

I'd say to try playing one of the HoI games as the US to get a feel for it... except that those games deliberately nerf US industrial capacity for gameplay balance; even in 1939, with US industry still at fairly low ebb thanks to the Great Depression, the US had more than 50% of the entire world's industrial capacity, meaning that, gameplay-wise, "America vs. The World" would be the only fair fight...

Exactly. #1 America had roughly equivalent military-industrial capacity to #2 Germany, #3 Great Britain, #4 France, and #5 Russia...all put together (Japan BTW was #6, which is why HOI4 had to 'break' the AI victory calculations for Japan deliberately to ensure that the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor). Seriously, when you look at any list of war material produced 1942-45 (tanks, ships, planes, steel, etc), the numbers are staggering even without American total mobilization ala Germany, Russia, England or Japan. Where you had a shipyard in Mobile go from 240 employees in 1941 to 21,000 employees in 1943 turning out Liberty Ships for instance.

Guys, this involves warboats. Not tanks.

Good point. So to get the discussion back on track, the next major OTL battle in the Pacific is Coral Sea (which Sara missed after she ate a torpedo). Think that she gets a chance to fight alongside her sister Lexington now (and if Thompson and Lexie have taken steps to fix the avgas explosion issues)? I think that I'm safe in saying events in the Atlantic have already left the rails of canon pretty hard with Bismark sitting in France available to sortie again.

EDIT-Actually wait. Sara in OTL gets sent as part of the aborted effort to relieve Wake Island immediately after Pearl Harbor, and then gets torpedoed by I-6. That might change since Thompson has better intelligence about both Japanese forces present (which were overestimated IOTL, forcing a cancellation of the attempt) and about the torpedoing of Saratoga.
 
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Guys, this involves warboats. Not tanks.
The tanks and thier guns was brought up due to the speculation of the kanmusu being able to use their own naval guns on them and the best thing those who dont have kanmusu to counter them are tanks.

But i agree with you that we're way off topic about tank guns and ammo vs naval guns/rifle and ammo.


What we should discuss is the shipping chart....
 
But why are we comparing tons of material shipped between the allies and axis, didn't the axis powers in question have very little actual cooperation and by extension shipping capacity? ;)
Well...

We can always ship sky with sara....
Kappa. XD
 
The facial expressions of IJN High Command resembles that of a dog chewing hot pitch about now. After action reports at the very least show the loss of a significant portion of the Kido Butai's air strength. And no carrier losses for the Americans and kami knows they are. Good news? They caught MacArthur with his ass in the breeze in the Phillipines. Bad news? The Asiatic squadron blew the taco stand early and is roaming about somewhere. That needs to be dealt with so the Dutch possessions can be taken. Singapore still needs to be taken. And to put the cherry on top of the sundae, Wake Island is a threat that must be taken.

If the ABDACOM boys survive longer than in OTL and just make the IJN have to chase them around, that's a strategically superior outcome than any losses they inflict on Japan. Just delaying Japan's timetable throws so many spanners into the works that the IJN High Command might be frustrated enough to commit even greater blunders.
 
is it that time again

Sky... posts a reminder that he doesn't want to get called by his character, who is his own work.

There is something here a little off about all this... not wanting to call thyself seems... a bit sketchy somehow? "I don't want to talk to myself" seems off to me.

The facial expressions of IJN High Command resembles that of a dog chewing hot pitch about now.

Should I be concerned over you having an idea what this expression looks like?
 
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More appropriately, that's the 'on topic' post. That's what is supposed to be used if the story drifts too much.
 
The facial expressions of IJN High Command resembles that of a dog chewing hot pitch about now. After action reports at the very least show the loss of a significant portion of the Kido Butai's air strength. And no carrier losses for the Americans and kami knows they are. Good news? They caught MacArthur with his ass in the breeze in the Phillipines. Bad news? The Asiatic squadron blew the taco stand early and is roaming about somewhere. That needs to be dealt with so the Dutch possessions can be taken. Singapore still needs to be taken. And to put the cherry on top of the sundae, Wake Island is a threat that must be taken.

If the ABDACOM boys survive longer than in OTL and just make the IJN have to chase them around, that's a strategically superior outcome than any losses they inflict on Japan. Just delaying Japan's timetable throws so many spanners into the works that the IJN High Command might be frustrated enough to commit even greater blunders.

It's not necessarily true that Tokyo will be hammering the panic button yet. The Kido Butai will be returning under radio silence and may 'massage' the airgroup losses and claims of ship sinkings (and besides the battleships are the arm of the Decisive Battle, right?) when they finally report in. The Philippines are going to fall on schedule, and we don't know how their strike into Malaya is going. Yeah, unless thing change, Wake Island will be a mess for Japan, and the question then becomes is if Wake can be neutralized before a relief and reinforcement force can arrive, which segues into what Sister Sara was doing in OTL when she got torpedoed.

This said, the goal for the IJN is to establish a perimeter and grab what they can before the counterattack, the goal for the USN is hamper IJN efforts and delay them until sufficient strength can be mustered to swing naval control firmly onto their side in 1943.
 
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"drinking shit beer face".

So... someone who's drunk enough on beer to have that beer nose thing, and a foam moustache, who is drunk enough to only realize they are drinking literal shit halfway through the beaker...

For some odd reason that's what the diction and grammar made me think of, might want to revise the wording to "shitty beer"... Inb4 permaban for incredibly bad wordplay...
 
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I was wondering. But what would shipgirl to shipgirl combat look like? Like what would happen if shipgirls from opposite sides battled each other?

Since Utah was able to summon herself as a shipgirl and proved herself in combat, the cat is out of the bag. I think that every nation, both Allied and Axis, will now be trying to summon their own shipgirls for use in combat. I think that the British and the Americans will have the initial advantage in regard to summoning shipgirls. Although I am not sure if the British and the Americans will collaborate with the Soviets in regard to potential shipgirl summoning project.
The Germans may try to summon shipgirls if they are able to make the connection with the appearance of young women on their warships. Personally, I would think that shipgirls will be a huge boon for the Axis, especially for the Japanese. Supplying and keeping shipgirls in combat readiness is much easier than Naval ships. Not to mention that every ship lost is another potential shipgirl to be summoned.
The German Navy will definitely encourage the development of a shipgirl project, as it would increase the usefulness and prestige of the Kriegsmarine over the other branches and may give them an edge in the Battle of the Atlantic.
I think Schreiber will even encourage the development of the German shipgirl program. As he would need military support to overthrow Hitler and the shipgirls under his command are the most reliable soldiers he has with no loyalty to Hitler whatsoever.

It is going to be a major shock when the first instance of shipgirl to shipgirl combat happens. I fear that the introduction of shipgirls may have made the Second World War more violence and tragic. Shipgirls from opposite sides are going to have a lot of animosity between each other than before, as they are likely going to fight each other.
This fic kinds of reminds me of the comic Uber, although there are very clear differences.
 
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Probably little different than what is comminly depicted against Abyssals, from a technical standpoint. Infantry-range firefights, but with far larger guns unless a variant of the "Levelling Effect" comes into play. There's probably far more insults thrown around, however, and nothing's quite as depressing as watching comrades die in their arms or slip beneath the waves, battered, bloodied, and never to be seen again.
 
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Well, up to now, the ship spirits were contained to their earthly vessels (hah!). So the veil between the material world and the spirit realm was still fully intact. Even with, if we are correct about the maid Sasha, Gneisenau self summoning to save/serve Admiral Lutjens, all is still in relative balance between the two worlds. Utah, however, self-summoned by the power of rage. Who's to say that hasn't opened a door for something darker to return to the material plane?
 
Since Utah was able to summon herself as a shipgirl and proved herself in combat, the cat is out of the bag.
Actually, the cat is still in the bag.

Only the USN and RN are semi-officially aware of shipgirls, and only two persons in the world know that the spirits of sunk ships can be summoned, the time-travelling admirals, one of which is not talking so he doesn't provide the Nazis with additional weapons.

So in the story, shipgirl to shipgirl combat is still quite a long way away, and possibly will only happen in the Pacific theater. I suspect the Japanese would not share this partcular bit of info with Berlin.
 
made the Second World War more violence and tragic.

In basically every variation of WWII that isn't a pants on head Idiot Plot Axis-wank, the final outcome is never in doubt and is "The Axis or similar ideologies get rekt". The overwhelming supermajority of deviations from OTL only make things worse for the Axis...

Having Japan hold out on longer just changes the math from "between the landing craft hitting the shores and the last mountain village being razed to the ground, Japan surrenders" to "between the first city starving to death and the last mountain village going up in a mushroom cloud, Japan ceases resistance" for example.

Adding shipgirls is no different, as the Allied navies have far more girls to draw on, and far less mercy left by the end of the long grind...
 
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Actually, the cat is still in the bag.

Only the USN and RN are semi-officially aware of shipgirls, and only two persons in the world know that the spirits of sunk ships can be summoned, the time-travelling admirals, one of which is not talking so he doesn't provide the Nazis with additional weapons.

So in the story, shipgirl to shipgirl combat is still quite a long way away, and possibly will only happen in the Pacific theater. I suspect the Japanese would not share this partcular bit of info with Berlin.
I am not so sure. Rumors will definitely now begin to spread. There is no way for the Americans to hide this incident. Hundreds of people saw the Utah summon herself to engage the Japanese. The Germans are already getting some idea that something is happening in their ships. I am unable to think of a good reason for the Japanese to hide the appearance of the Utah from the Germans. In addition, the Germans and the Japanese do have their own intelligence assets. It may be only a matter of time until they discover the existence of shipgirls.

I think that Schreiber may encourage the German shipgirl program for a number of reasons. He needs military support for any future coup and summoned shipgirls will be very useful in that. Also, he may think of having summoned shipgirls in order to get enough military force to get a negotiated peace. He does not want the Soviet Union to conquer Germany as it in the OTL. Although I may be wrong and he may just try to summon shipgirls secretly.

P.S. does Schreiber have the loyalty of all shipgirls in the Kriegsmarine? He has the loyalty of most of the surface ships but I am not sure about the U-Boats and the others? Where would the loyalty of the other shipgirls lie? I would imagine that the newer shipgirls maybe more loyal to Hitler and Germany.
 
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There is no way for the Americans to hide this incident. Hundreds of people saw the Utah summon herself to engage the Japanese.
Actually, the hundreds that saw something beyond a speck originating all the AA fire, are all military personnel that can be sworn into secrecy. And the Press would side with the military too. We already discussed that.

So, while I agree that the US cannot hide the incident forever, if they so chose they can hide it for more than a year. And a lot of things can happen in-story in that time.

It's far more interesting to speculate if the IJN brass will believe the pilot's report, and if he can actually see the IJN shipgirls.
 
Since Utah was able to summon herself as a shipgirl and proved herself in combat, the cat is out of the bag. I think that every nation, both Allied and Axis, will now be trying to summon their own shipgirls for use in combat. I think that the British and the Americans will have the initial advantage in regard to summoning shipgirls. Although I am not sure if the British and the Americans will collaborate with the Soviets in regard to potential shipgirl summoning project.

Well the problem is that while Utah self-summoned, with wartime censorship and the slow and limited speed of data transmission, the news about exactly what happened at Pearl will take time to percolate, and proof that the wild story is real will take longer. Now the US Navy knows, and can be presumed to share the information with the Royal Navy (who have proof that shipgirls exist in their steel hulls). There's also a very strong cultural bias against women in combat if there are viable alternatives (and in this case there will be viable alternatives like those in OTL). This also does not count the cultural and theological implications of ships having souls.

For the Japanese, this is a bit trickier, since while they will be culturally more predisposed to believe that Zuikaku has a kami on board, Tanaka is a junior pilot in a very hierarchical organization that he would have to persuade. Also it will be a while before they lose many ships going off OTL events, so it would be even longer before they look to try to resummon the sunk (probably after Midway would be the earliest they even start looking into it). A further problem might be if the summoners have to have proximity to the wreck to summon, remember Utah summoned on her sunk hull. Rather tough for Japan then.

I think that Schreiber may encourage the German shipgirl program for a number of reasons. He needs military support for any future coup and summoned shipgirls will be very useful in that. Also, he may think of having summoned shipgirls in order to get enough military force to get a negotiated peace. He does not want the Soviet Union to conquer Germany as it in the OTL. Although I may be wrong and he may just try to summon shipgirls secretly.

Who is he going to summon apart from a lot of U-boats and possibly a few destroyers? Well the Panzershiffe like Graf Spee perhaps. Gneisenau's already summoned and int he UK and Bismark, Scharnhorst and the CAs are unsunk and accounted for. Unless the ritual would allow Bismark's spirit to leave her hull, it's of limited value to him.

P.S. does Schreiber have the loyalty of all shipgirls in the Kriegsmarine? He has the loyalty of most of the surface ships but I am not sure about the U-Boats and the others? Where would the loyalty of the other shipgirls lie? I would imagine that the newer shipgirls maybe more loyal to Hitler and Germany.

You don't get much newer than Bismark right now until Tirpitz is built. As for the U-boats, that's a good question, I'd think Schreiber would be a possibility or Dornitz with the caveat that some of them might be ardent Nazis if their captain and crew were fanatical. Generally speaking the KM was pretty much more pro-Germany than pro-Nazi though.

Regardless of anyone else, we know he sees at least Zuikaku.

I'd presume that now he can see them, assuming that he's in a position to see them, IE walking through the mess hall on Akagi.

It's the IJN brass, do you think they have the competence to actually listen?

Admiral Yamamoto was reasonably competent, and some like Admiral Tanaka were very good. Now whether or not they will listen to someone that far down the chain of command is a different story, he would have to persuade his air group commander and captain that he's really seeing Zuikaku and not gone mad as the minimum first step.
 
Now whether or not they will listen to someone that far down the chain of command is a different story, he would have to persuade his air group commander and captain that he's really seeing Zuikaku and not gone mad as the minimum first step.

Going so far off the reservation as to believe this stressed-out nutter would have to take until they start ORDERING pilots to ram enemy ships and start relying on belief in the war god to try to overcome their fears. So... almost certainly too little, too late.

Perhaps the Axis will end up being the first to dpeloy shipgirls in combat and after the first couple wrecked Allied fleets, Allied command chains might screw their heads on straight enough to use these "wimminz" in combat. However, I think that's an underestimate of Allied competence...
 
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