Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

I'm going to preface this with Sky has a migraine, he is not fully functional.
Get some sleep/rest.

The flashback with Sara and Thompson is both important for character development, and because people have said they find him boring. Well, I'm trying to expand his character a bit. There's an entire subplot in that regard, once the politicking is done. Though Schreiber is going to feature more prominently on that point.
I think the issue with Thompson is that one can say that his character is "I'm a good guy". Thats it really.

I mean, Settle from KCQ is crazy and full of nonsensical justifications and excuses. Naka is despair and self-hatred over things she has no control over. Hate is wtf :confused:.

Jersey from Belbat is human, oh so human in her faults.

See the contrast? I have no issues with Thompson but I can see why some would call him boring.


As I said, one can consider the last few chapters as set-up and as getting things out of the way. We're getting to the point where there is enough evidence to bring the situation to FDR. That requires retreading old ground but with Stark or King or the Brits. A mini-arc, if you will.

It was necessary, even if it bores some people.

It was also set up for characterization. Little E's part in the story requires that I continue to show her and Halsey developing their relationship. Yorktown needed to be established, both because she's going to the Atlantic- which means interactions with the main cast -and so she can factor in more later.

Setup, setup, setup.

If it's boring or such, I'm sorry, but it is something I need to get out of the way before I can move into other things. Which again...is what I plan on doing. The character pieces establish characters and allow for chapters to be more than just 'convince Admiral they see girls' again. Which is needed, for fairly clear reasons, as above.

There is a lot of stuff to cover, and I'm not even touching on the Japanese yet!

For what it's worth, like I said, the last chapters have been a mini-arc. By no means are they going to be the regular. I was already planning on showing stuff in Europe- we need to catch up with Repulse and Doria, leave out Schreiber -once we got past the current bit. Because now it's just waiting on getting a message to Roosevelt, which is something that can safely be done off-screen.
Hmm, I would actually like to see FDR coming into the know. have him meet a shipgirl offscreen. we catch up to FDR and the rest in the Whitehouse or whatever talking about the implications and what can be done about this, what can the shipgirls do, etc. You can use this to lead to tests that will inevitably take place about the shipgirls. This allows us to know what they can and can't do and see the ways they can use them in battle.
 
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I'm going to preface this with Sky has a migraine, he is not fully functional.

Well, I'm sorry to hear about your migraine - I guess this was probably an odd time to drop any sort hammer. Please do get well soon.


A. Pacing.

From a storytelling perspective, maybe it's slow. I don't think so, but others can think differently. From a realistic perspective, I'm already going so hilariously fast it isn't even funny. Realistically- yes I know, magic botegirls what realism -there should have been a barrage of questions and tests before Thompson got anywhere near getting Stark on a ship. And there should have been even more before Stark sent a message to the CNO and yet more before Hood got involved and...

The point should probably be clear.

Short of doing yet more time skips to cover what would be realistic tests, I'm already straining things to the breaking point just going as fast as I am. It would have been off-screen stuff with Skip or Hood or New York or any other girls. Which then...why are important things like that off-screen? Or making chapters even longer in an effort to cover, well, everything in one chapter. Which then runs into the other issue with pacing, that is cramming too much into one chapter.

Well and good. Without backtracking -since I don't have any intention to back-track at all- if there's one thing to be said in defense of this fic it is that it is constrained by the progress of time in OTL, in which Thompson has only really begun to set off the butterflies of chaos.

(Not that kind of Chaos, guys, the good kind.)

This is the premise for any defense of the story's present pace, and I in fact think it to be a more than adequate reason for the story to have taken the time to grind out the basics.

30 chapters is still an end-to-end touchdown too long in my opinion to have not covered the Japanese, don't get me wrong, but this factor does work in the fic's favor. Perhaps it was remiss of me to not have mentioned that in my review either, but I do think it to be a mitigating factor for sure. I'd also be forced to respectfully disagree on the matter of 'too much happening in one chapter'. I think you're still a fair ways off from bumping into that particular problem.

I did however point to some instances where your existing text lacks a certain economy of words that would otherwise allow you to put much more meaning into less written down - perhaps that might be of some use to you?

B. Character work

The stuff with Enterprise and Halsey or Yorktown or Sara isn't filler. I fully am trying to set up their characters for stuff later. Enterprise is developing into a more carefree girl around Halsey, and trying to emulate him at the same time. Yorktown is a bit cocky and easy to annoy, but she really does care about her little sister. Both of these are very important for when the War starts up.

Enterprise only just now figuring out about Halsey's family is intentional, because as noted, he doesn't consider himself a good father. Why would he talk about his family until something prompts it? And it is important for both of their characters, not window-dressing or rehashing things.

The flashback with Sara and Thompson is both important for character development, and because people have said they find him boring. Well, I'm trying to expand his character a bit. There's an entire subplot in that regard, once the politicking is done. Though Schreiber is going to feature more prominently on that point.

As I mentioned at many points in the long review I wrote, much of mitigating necessary evils comes down to the author's ability to execute narrative beats and draw readers into the development through the artful use of prose and interesting micro-beats in each sub-section of a chapter.

By this I mean descriptive prose, character moments, the construction of individual lines and by-plays. Never once did I say that the whole scene was superfluous; but rather that significant portions of it lent a sense of bloat and blandness that made it harder to get through and feel longer than it had any right to have felt.

In other words, the inconsistent quality of these character sections do a terrible injustice to what you must surely have had in mind for the characters to become, since they devalue the length of time you've spent on the characterization itself and lead to less instead of more fleshed out characters in spite of the consumed space and time.

So I can certainly see where @Space Penguin 's critique that some characters (like Thompson) are just rather droll may come from.

There surely comes an event horizon where no authorial skill can keep the patience of most would break, but keeping it fresh in this regard definitely extends the run-time of your down-times.

Speaking of our German friend, is that why people like his parts? Because it's different?

Well since he's clearly planning to go wreck some face in the name of staging a coup later on...he's definitely something else, alright. It is a move in a different direction on average with the rest of the plot, so I don't think you can really blame people for liking it.

C. Overall plotlines

*Snipped for length, and also because it's a retread of both A and B*

All the same, things are moving towards a head re: Shipgirls in America and Schreiber's preparations to sortie. Not very much longer before both situations blow up.

And I'll be sitting here waiting to watch the explosions, popcorn firmly in hand. For someone with a migraine, you're quite lucid, and that's a good sign.

I do hope that you take our comments in good faith, and that despite our inevitable disagreements on the direction the plot is taking we can work together to make it a better experience for all involved.
 
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Sky, I'll tell you the same thing I told mp3.1415player over in his Taylor Varga AU worm story. Take as much time as you feel this story needs for proper setup. I don't mind slow pacing, especially when at the moment you're going through a story arc that is basically Slice of Life stuff to set up for later action segments. I didn't start this expecting all action all the time, and so far I haven't been disappointed in the slightest.
 
Sky, I'll tell you the same thing I told mp3.1415player over in his Taylor Varga AU worm story. Take as much time as you feel this story needs for proper setup. I don't mind slow pacing, especially when at the moment you're going through a story arc that is basically Slice of Life stuff to set up for later action segments. I didn't start this expecting all action all the time, and so far I haven't been disappointed in the slightest.
I agree. Like with Sheo Darren's stories, I don't mind the long setup. It helps me to get into the story.
 
Sky, I'll tell you the same thing I told mp3.1415player over in his Taylor Varga AU worm story. Take as much time as you feel this story needs for proper setup. I don't mind slow pacing, especially when at the moment you're going through a story arc that is basically Slice of Life stuff to set up for later action segments. I didn't start this expecting all action all the time, and so far I haven't been disappointed in the slightest.
Same here, Sky.
 
Sky, I'll tell you the same thing I told mp3.1415player over in his Taylor Varga AU worm story. Take as much time as you feel this story needs for proper setup. I don't mind slow pacing, especially when at the moment you're going through a story arc that is basically Slice of Life stuff to set up for later action segments. I didn't start this expecting all action all the time, and so far I haven't been disappointed in the slightest.
agreed.Generally the issue with long setups is that you need a real good payoff for it to be worth it. But given that its Sky we're talking about I'm not really worried about that being a problem.
 
I actually like all of your characters, though Thomas is a favorite of mine right now. He just had so many interesting connections, and unlike his other counterparts he's moving in the big leagues. Though perhaps it's more that I want to see how you write everyone else he might encounter.

I also can't shake the feeling that King is going to make things very interesting for Thomas in the near future. It would be interesting to see how he responds to something like that. What would he do if King found a way to target Sara, for example.
 
I actually like all of your characters, though Thomas is a favorite of mine right now. He just had so many interesting connections, and unlike his other counterparts he's moving in the big leagues. Though perhaps it's more that I want to see how you write everyone else he might encounter.

I also can't shake the feeling that King is going to make things very interesting for Thomas in the near future. It would be interesting to see how he responds to something like that. What would he do if King found a way to target Sara, for example.
I don't think King's so stupid as to break one of the navies biggest unwritten rules.
 
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I think that King's animosity towards Thompson is that King used to be the golden boy of the Navy back in the day and even he didn't get advanced to the rank as fast as Thompson appears to have done. Add to the fact that King was sidelined onto the General Board and he would be rather resentful of someone succeeding without paying the dues so to speak. And probably assuming that Thompson got his position by superior political patronage, coupled with King's reputation of saving his social charms for his fellow officers' wives, equals a wee bit of hostility.
 
I don't think King's so stupid as to break one of the navies biggest unwritten rules.
King was also one of the most heartless SoB in the entire navy, the farce of the court martial against McVay for the loss of the Indianapolis was under his orders. If he was willing to do that to an officer who lost his ship due to enemy action during the war, then I can see him making use of other underhanded tricks as well.
 
King was also one of the most heartless SoB in the entire navy, the farce of the court martial against McVay for the loss of the Indianapolis was under his orders. If he was willing to do that to an officer who lost his ship due to enemy action during the war, then I can see him making use of other underhanded tricks as well.
He's also smart enough to know what being caught will do to his career, possibly his health if the rest of the fleet finds out.
 
He's also smart enough to know what being caught will do to his career, possibly his health if the rest of the fleet finds out.
Which means he will do so through cat paws or with the support of politicians. God knows that someone with his temper knows how to deal with enemies all around him, and no one ever reached his rank without being a master politician both within and outside the Navy's jerarchy.
 
Let's not forget that the Commanders at Pearl, Admiral Kimmel, and General Short, were both charged with Dereliction of Duty after the Attack. Simply because America needed someone to be responsible for how badly prepared the island of Oahu was on that Sunday Morning.
 
Which means he will do so through cat paws or with the support of politicians. God knows that someone with his temper knows how to deal with enemies all around him, and no one ever reached his rank without being a master politician both within and outside the Navy's jerarchy.
Considering he's dealing with the CNO's and possibly the presidents goldenboy... I get the feeling his pool of friends are going to dry up on him real quick.
 
Now the question is: How quick will that happen?

I think what @Spectre is pointing out is that the odds are becoming quite stacked against King here. By contrast, in most of the counter-cases cited cases King was acting from a position that could be easily maneuvered into one of situational-moral superiority (or at least political expediency), however underhanded the process may be regarded to be in 21st century hindsight.

As such, whatever animosity he may have towards Thompson aside it can be argued that he is not so impractical as to act now. Perhaps he will find some other excuse, but without some serendipity (which if I may add was in his favor in the other cases as well) involved it does not seem to me that he will find it easily.
 
You live up to the device your penguin wears on its chest. But yes, these are indeed possibilities. Very interesting ones...and with a rather high execution skill ceiling to boot. The extents to which these things may happen is ultimately not up to us, though I would profess an interest in seeing it done in some capacity at some point!
It would be very interesting. Its not like such incidents didn't already take place. All I'm proposing is such incidents increase cause of he existence of shipgirl spirits.

I don't know about you guys but to me, USS Harder has to be a guy. His name and him being a guy paints a huge target on his ass for jokes at his expense. Also, his submarine crew will consider him as one of the guys, jokes to see if they can get him laid.

Coming as you do from 40k, would it be too far off to propose that these seafaring xenos could in the right hands provide us some unique entertainment of their own?
Said creatures have already been covered in many, many other fics. This fic is interesting cause WW2 environment, spirits and their metal bodies, revelation of their existence and how it will affect the war and their crews.

Omakes sure but main story should not have them. But not to say that the WW2 of this fic doesn't have an affect on the Abyssals. As I said, there is a chance that this war, at least for naval battles becomes more bloody and painful, more chance that the Abyssals show up sooner then they did canonically.

Acknowledged.

That one fic suffers from a certain flaw should not excuse another, and I was not trying to make that point.
Sure.

As for the King guy wanting to get at Thompson. Ant-frat regs charges against Thompson for his interactions with Saratoga.

If Halsey and Arizona can see the tension between Thompson and Saratoga, everyone else can see it.
 
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I don't know about you guys but to me, USS Harder has to be a guy. His name and him being a guy paints a huge target on his ass for jokes at his expense. Also, his submarine crew will consider him as one of the guys, jokes to see if they can get him laid.
And then people get to find out all sorts of FUN* anatomical and physiological things about ship-spirits with steel hulls.
Things like sexual intercourse, orgasm, pregnancy, and childbirth.

*As in, we can't really depict it on SV.
 
As for the King guy wanting to get at Thompson. Ant-frat regs charges against Thompson for his interactions with Saratoga.

If Halsey and Arizona can see the tension between Thompson and Saratoga, everyone else can see it.
Back then did the Ant-frat regs even existed? Women, other than the WAVES, were not exactly part of the active service chain of command and even if they were Sara and Thompson hadn't so much as kiss in public which would make a case for it really hard to prove, and even if he could prove it he would only strenghten the position of the Pro-Shipgirl faction since they would accept that the Shipgirls have the same responsabilities (and rights) than human seamen.

No, what he would do is to lobby to give Thompson the command of an out of the way naval base, without assigned ships, to see if the Shipgirls increase or not when he is not inciting them. And if Sara loses, or gains, any of eficiency then he would use it as evidence than interaction with the Shipgirls hurts the Navy's prepareness.
 
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How is this a refutation of my point? See the jokes at harder's expense write themselves.
Alright, I see the problem. You really don't know the reputation sailors have had. I think a good illustration here would be the 1930's Paul Cadmus painting, The Fleet's In.* Sailors were, and kinda still are, a pretty rowdy bunch.
You joke about people saying Harder should be going out, partying it up, and getting laid. Historically, that was what one did. So when Harder and his crew go to Honolulu on leave, there's going to be some action had. Said action and its consequences can't really be shown on SV.
Make sense now?
Back then did the Ant-frat regs even existed? Women, other than the WAVES, were not exactly part of the active service chain of command
Yes. Yes they did. No fraternization between officers and enlisted men. Nurses and most other positions open to women were of officer rank. And there were also rules against having sex with your secretary/nurse.

*Yes, I am aware of the whole backlash and banning from the navy. Cadmus was just drawing what he observed.
 
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