Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

Lost to the annals of anomemeity.

So, next chapter guessing. I'm worried that E will force Thompson to tell her what happens. Or, chaos involving Hood. I'm gunning for Hood.
 
Is this some sort of joke about her screws? I don't get it.
yep, her and Wash had vibration issues stemming from their redesigned hulls and propulsion system that were so bad it made her rear rangefinder useless at top speed. She spent most of 1941 trying on different types of screws and prancing around New York Harbor giving her the nickname "Showboat" Fun fact, she never actually achieved her designed top speed of 28 knots in her life.
 
So one thing I stopped to consider for a bit is just how fucked the timeline is going to end up being. We all know that going back in time in general is usually bad enough, and with how much Thompson has fucked around already he's probably already caused catastrophic damage farther down the line like causing the Cubs to win every world series between 1960 and 1993, but we have at least two people fucking around with the past and generally breaking shit. If we involve every major player of the war, that's five people running around breaking time. I wonder just how fucked the timeline will end up being down the line.
 
So one thing I stopped to consider for a bit is just how fucked the timeline is going to end up being. We all know that going back in time in general is usually bad enough, and with how much Thompson has fucked around already he's probably already caused catastrophic damage farther down the line like causing the Cubs to win every world series between 1960 and 1993, but we have at least two people fucking around with the past and generally breaking shit. If we involve every major player of the war, that's five people running around breaking time. I wonder just how fucked the timeline will end up being down the line.
It'll make C&C look like a linear story line. :p
 
So one thing I stopped to consider for a bit is just how fucked the timeline is going to end up being. We all know that going back in time in general is usually bad enough, and with how much Thompson has fucked around already he's probably already caused catastrophic damage farther down the line like causing the Cubs to win every world series between 1960 and 1993, but we have at least two people fucking around with the past and generally breaking shit. If we involve every major player of the war, that's five people running around breaking time. I wonder just how fucked the timeline will end up being down the line.

As long as Secretariat wins the Triple Crown like he did OTL. Because that was the epitome of epic! :)
 
So one thing I stopped to consider for a bit is just how fucked the timeline is going to end up being. We all know that going back in time in general is usually bad enough, and with how much Thompson has fucked around already he's probably already caused catastrophic damage farther down the line like causing the Cubs to win every world series between 1960 and 1993, but we have at least two people fucking around with the past and generally breaking shit. If we involve every major player of the war, that's five people running around breaking time. I wonder just how fucked the timeline will end up being down the line.
Montanas, perhaps?
 

Highly doubt it. They don't do anything the Iowas, Essex's and Midways can't do far more effectively. While at the same time being too large to fit through the Panama Canal and too slow to keep up with the Fast Carriers.

Not to mention any officer that comes from more modern times already know how the advent of effective naval aviation made conventional Battleships of the line obsolete.

What we'd likely see is a more careful avoidance of technical and doctrinal dead-ends, like the USAF and USN's early emphasis on 'no guns, only missiles' for their aircraft (see F-4 Phantom). Or a stronger push for a Fighter Weapons School before the Navy gets their asses handed to them by the Vietnamese.

-SK
 
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Highly doubt it. They don't do anything the Iowas, Essex's and Midways can't do far more effectively. While at the same time being too large to fit through the Panama Canal and too slow to keep up with the Fast Carriers.

Not to mention any officer that comes from more modern times already know how the advent of effective naval aviation made conventional Battleships of the line obsolete.

What we'd likely see is a more careful avoidance of technical and doctrinal dead-ends, like the USAF and USN's early emphasis on 'no guns, only missiles' for their aircraft (see F-4 Phantom). Or a stronger push for a Fighter Weapons School before the Navy gets their asses handed to them by the Vietnamese.

-SK
They were designed to hunt and destroy Yamato. In this sense, they'd do their job. Of course, it'd be more likely for America to ACTUALLY FINISH ILLINOIS AND KENTUCKY!!![RAGE intensifies]

Also, remember why Jersey's AA guns were removed during 'Nam. Charlie didn't have planes. Or choppers.
 
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They were designed to hunt and destroy Yamato. In this sense, they'd do their job. Of course, it'd be more likely for America to ACTUALLY FINISH ILLINOIS AND KENTUCKY!!![RAGE intensifies]

Also, remember why Jersey's AA guns were removed during 'Nam. Charlie didn't have planes. Or choppers.

Except carriers can kill battleships with far more ease and far less risk, so actually making the Montana's instead of just more Carriers is not cost-effective in the slightest.

As for Jersey and Vietnam, the AA guns were removed not because the NVA didn't have planes they did. But because the USN realized that the 40mm Bofors mounts and 20mm Oerlikons were pretty useless at shooting down jets (because actual fighters did the job better) and if they can't be used to shoot down aircraft then they were pointless extra weight.

-SK
 
Is this some sort of joke about her screws? I don't get it.

yep, her and Wash had vibration issues stemming from their redesigned hulls and propulsion system that were so bad it made her rear rangefinder useless at top speed. She spent most of 1941 trying on different types of screws and prancing around New York Harbor giving her the nickname "Showboat" Fun fact, she never actually achieved her designed top speed of 28 knots in her life.
There's actually a very interesting (for engineering types) report on this from the David Taylor Model Basin out there. Lemme see if I can find it again... there we go! "Analysis of Vibration in the Propelling Machinery of the Battleships North Carolina and Washington (BB55 and BB56)," by R.T. McGoldrick and W.F. Curtis. Available for free download from MIT's library as a PDF at Analysis of Vibration in the Propelling Machinery of the Battleships North Carolina and Washington (BB55 and BB56) : MIT Libraries

116 pages of the details of the problem and everything done to try and solve it. The vibration problems were largely solved at high speed by December of 1941, with modifications to the machinery, changes of screws, and (finally) external bracing of the aft fire control tower, but BuShips never considered the problem fully solved, as both ships were decommissioned in 1947 while still having unacceptable vibration in the 17-20 knot range.

According to Friedman, Washington did make 28 to 28.2 knots in a full-power trial on 1 December 1941, and both ships were considered good for 26.4 knots at full load, 27.3 knots at designed trial weight of 42,100 tons in 1945; Ships Data 1945 showed them as being good for 27.6 knots at 42,000 tons, while BuShips set a maximum desirable displacement limit for them at 48,000 tons (as all US warships were rapidly gaining weight at the time). Given that the Iowas were designed for a 33 knot trial speed and considered good for 31.4 sustained in the same issue of Ships Data, and that the performance of WW2 US cruisers was quite disappointing (usually targeting 34-35 knots, but only getting about 32), I'd say that's close enough to say that the NCs met their design speed.

So one thing I stopped to consider for a bit is just how fucked the timeline is going to end up being. We all know that going back in time in general is usually bad enough, and with how much Thompson has fucked around already he's probably already caused catastrophic damage farther down the line like causing the Cubs to win every world series between 1960 and 1993, but we have at least two people fucking around with the past and generally breaking shit. If we involve every major player of the war, that's five people running around breaking time. I wonder just how fucked the timeline will end up being down the line.
If Thompson's memory is good enough, one possible result is that he'll manage to get the Alaska-class cruisers into the same "national asset" protection status as the Iowas had (and maybe get the Navy to go ahead and do that final 5% of construction to complete Hawaii in the process), as it was realized in the 80s that the Iowas were really too big for the role we were reactivating them for, and since CG/DDG-type ships were a bit too small, the Alaskas would have been pretty much a perfect fit, providing the same missile capacity (and much of the heavy bombardment capacity) as the Iowas, but at a significantly reduced operating cost.
 
They were designed to hunt and destroy Yamato.

No, no they weren't, and oh how I wish that myth would just fucking die.

The Montana Class was nothing more than an Iowa stretched and widened to accept a fourth main turret. It was designed because battleship enthusiasts at BuShips liked the thought of an Iowa with more gun. The Navy wasn't keen on the design because it was slow, too fat for the Panama Canal, and didn't do anything the six treaty battleships couldn't already do.

The Montana class was cancelled at the same time as the last two Iowa's and for the same reason: the new war was a carrier war, and any yard space devoted to battleships was space that could be better devoted to more carriers.

Finally, the Montana class project was officially cancelled by the Navy in 1942. American subs got their first glimpse of Yamato in 1943. The first decent look the Americans got at the Yamato's wasn't until October 1944.

Stop saying a paper class of ships was intended to counter a ship we didn't know existed until two years agree the project was canceled. Because it is wrong.
 
Just a note that the Montana's were planned in conjunction with a new set of wider locks for the Panama Canal, the same consideration that led the Midways to exceed panamax limits. The Montana's were much more than enlarged Iowa's, they had a totally redesigned torpedo defense and subdivision setup (almost as heavily subdivided as the old turbo-electric ships, and with what would probably have been the strongest torpedo defense system ever put to sea. The Midways had a reduced variant of it and were considered absolutely superb in that respect).
 
Another reason the Iowas were reactivated and given the cruise missile armament they were was to enhance the Navy's survivability versus the Soviet Union's blue water task forces. Because they were the only armored ships that weren't museums. Admiral Gorschkov of the Soviets even admired the Iowas and said that the Soviets could empty a task force of missiles at a Iowa, do superficial damage, and then the Iowa would sail into range and sink them. Turns out a 12 inch armor belt, an armored citadel and armored turrets give a big middle finger to even the carrier killing cruise missiles packed by ships like the Pyotr Veliky.

Carriers do have the damage output over battleships, in large enough numbers, and when there is a lack of land based aircraft to counter them. By themselves carriers are pretty vulnerable bomb trucks. And if there are enough land based planes within range, like at Guadalcanal and the Solomons campaigns, even US carriers can get mauled pretty bad.

As for the Montanas, they had alot of different design iterations. The Navy did want them, it just couldn't make up its mind as to final specs. One of the reasons that the South Dakotas got built was because of this dithering, another reason was an attempt to build a better North Carolina. Also, one of the design wishes for the Montanas was to achieve and maintain a 28 knot speed while retaining armor that was proof against 16in shellfire. Aside from the Lexingtons which were stupid fast, carriers rarely went over 30 knots for more than emergency combat manuevering. So 28 knots isn't being a slug in the fleet.
 
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