Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

The Montana's where a full 10,000 tons lighter then the estimated weight of a Yamato, and where slated for the same level of engines as those installed on Iowa. Which you might recall as having a full 80K Horsepower more then the Yamato's. Montana's would Flank out at ~31-32 in combat load, 2 knots below where an Iowa could hold at flank.
Wrong. You're probably comparing Yamato's full-load displacement with Montana's standard displacement. Compare the actual loads, and the Montana is only a few thousand tons lighter. And the Montanas were not slated for an Iowa powerplant. They were designed for 172,000 shp, a full 40,000 less shp than the Iowa class.
 
Wrong. You're probably comparing Yamato's full-load displacement with Montana's standard displacement. Compare the actual loads, and the Montana is only a few thousand tons lighter. And the Montanas were not slated for an Iowa powerplant. They were designed for 172,000 shp, a full 40,000 less shp than the Iowa class.

What if you gave the Montana an Iowa class Powerplant? Just speaking hypothetically here, but if you did. Would it be possible for a Montana class to achieve 30 knots or so?
 
The Montana's where a full 10,000 tons lighter then the estimated weight of a Yamato, and where slated for the same level of engines as those installed on Iowa. Which you might recall as having a full 80K Horsepower more then the Yamato's. Montana's would Flank out at ~31-32 in combat load, 2 knots below where an Iowa could hold at flank.
An Iowa could touch 35 knots at flank with a minimum load. That means, no ammunition, and only enough fuel for a maintenance run. In 1945, the classified USN publication Ships' Data stated that the Iowas were good for a top speed of 31.4 knots with combat load.

What if you gave the Montana an Iowa class Powerplant? Just speaking hypothetically here, but if you did. Would it be possible for a Montana class to achieve 30 knots or so?
OK, I'm using Springsharp as a design tool to test this; it's optimistic on the Montanas, showing them making their design speed on only ~144,000 horsepower. It estimates 29.35 knots for them at their design power, and 30.99 knots if you found a way to wedge an Iowa-class powerplant into the same hull.

For the record, Fallenblades's estimate of 32 knots would require as much power as a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier.
 
Nonetheless, there's a major difference between using Code Talkers for tactical communications in land warfare (like the Marines conduct) and in naval combat. I know almost nothing about the Diné language or culture, but IIRC, they're a landlocked people, so I'm not even sure Navajo has the vocabulary to handle translating/encoding/decoding naval terminology.
 
Yorktown has less horsepower.

Until you hit Midway- which is an Iowa powerplant -no carrier has more horsepower than Lex or Sara.

On more pertinent news, if I don't finish the chapter tonight- though I'm certainly trying to -it will be up tomorrow morning.
 
Would a Yorktown (or so) powerplant work?
Don´t know how much power it generates, but 34 to 38 knots...
Would it be enough, what with all that armor of a Montana?
As Sky said, a Yorktown has less horsepower (120k) than a Montana (172k). Also...

THIRTY-FOUR TO THIRTY-EIGHT KNOTS?! ON A BATTLESHIP HULL?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

No. Just... no.
 
As Sky said, a Yorktown has less horsepower (120k) than a Montana (172k). Also...

THIRTY-FOUR TO THIRTY-EIGHT KNOTS?! ON A BATTLESHIP HULL?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

No. Just... no.
Well, it could happen; USS New Jersey reached 35.2 knots once and held it for six hours while on a shakedown cruise, although that's probably not the best example considering that New Jersey is an Iowa-class. It just wouldn't be combat-practical with the technology currently available in-story, or anything-practical for that matter, other than as a thought exercise or the largest ramming ship in history, and it still wouldn't be very good for either of those simply because of how silly it would have to be to reach those speeds.
 
Last edited:
The Montana's [...] where slated for the same level of engines as those installed on Iowa. Which you might recall as having a full 80K Horsepower more then the Yamato's.
Yamato: 150,000 shp. Iowa: 212,000 shp. Difference 62,000 shp, not 80K.
Yamato: 150,000 shp. Montana: 172,000 shp. Difference 22,000 shp, also not 80K.

Wrong. You're probably comparing Yamato's full-load displacement with Montana's standard displacement. Compare the actual loads, and the Montana is only a few thousand tons lighter.
He probably is. Full load Yamato: 73,000 tons. Full load Montana: 72,104 tons.
 
Don't mind us slavering hordes Sky. I'm pretty sure we can wait... I think. ;)

You can wait. Me? Hood is basically my second favorite warship of the Royal Navy after Warspite (whom, personally, I'm hoping we get to see kick some ass if Alt Germany makes the mistake of sending out any more capital ships). I'm interested to see how Hood develops here, and what she comes out of repairs in the US with.

...

You think Thompson could pull some strings and get those Unrotated Projectile Launchers replaced with 5"/38s?
 
Well, also, where are you going to put the machinery? If you look at the layout of, say, Iowa, there's fire rooms and engine rooms packed from the barbette of turret no. 2 to the barbette of turret no. 3. There's nowhere else for the engines to go without increasing the length of the armor belt, and therefore, weight.

Iowa has around 70 feet of length devoted to engines, compared to BB-65 design study scheme 4, which has only around 55 feet for them.
 
I said I was going to alternate the plots but not just alternate viewpoint chapters (EDIT: Or rather, not just do 'US chapter then German chapter then US chapter and so on and so forth'). That way leads to confusion.

This said, there will be stuff with Schreiber.

2.5k words or so as of now, going to sleep because late. Will finish in the morning/afternoon.
 
As Sky said, a Yorktown has less horsepower (120k) than a Montana (172k). Also...

THIRTY-FOUR TO THIRTY-EIGHT KNOTS?! ON A BATTLESHIP HULL?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

No. Just... no.

Clearly he plans on strapping rocket boosters onto the ship, because that's the only way you're gonna get anything built off a Montana hull to approach anywhere near that speed.

-SK
 
Either that or put several Shimakaze class Destroyer powerplants in one.
not good.

i dont think installing multiple destroyer powerplants will make something as massive as the montana class move very fast.
and installing multiple small powerplants will eat up more space than a singular engine.

you going to have to put an powerplant specifically designed for the ship for it to hit the fast battleship speed and above.
 
Oh, didn't know. I figured that because a single Shimakaze class Destroyer can produce 80,000 shp that it would make a difference there.
 
And we have once more gone into silly suggestion territory.

Warships are complex systems that are designed and built over the course of years to best optimize the characteristics of each component. One cannot just rip the components out of one design and insert it into another, then expect a corresponding change in performance like the raw, high-level numbers would suggest.

To illustrate this, I recall a case when the US Army was testing the T29/T30 heavy tanks. Granted, these are not warships, but they are still complex war machines that are designed specific components in mind. (It's also easier to swap components in 70-ton tanks than 40,000 ton battleships).
Of particular note during the testing is that the initially installed 770hp engine performed better than 810hp engines due to underlying characteristics (I think it was the torque curve), illustrating the point.

Going back to warships, yes, alternatively one could also add more powerplants... but then what are you going to take away? Weaponry? Armor? It's also back to the drawing board once that happens, as now entire compartments need to be redesigned. And using lots of little powerplants is not the same as using one big power plant -- that opens up a whole slew of other issues.

So please, stop suggesting "take powerplant from warship A and put it in warship B and you get faster ship". That's not even taking into consideration how much more raw power is needed to get one more knot of maximum speed, especially after after the high-20s knots. Friedman's quote about South Dakotas and Iowas comes to mind.
 
not good.

i dont think installing multiple destroyer powerplants will make something as massive as the montana class move very fast.
and installing multiple small powerplants will eat up more space than a singular engine.

you going to have to put an powerplant specifically designed for the ship for it to hit the fast battleship speed and above.
Not... entirely. Actually, for a good length of time in the 20s and 30s, the US Navy had standard "unit" machinery designs for carriers, cruisers, and battleships, reducing cost by making them common. For example, if you had a 180,000 horsepower four-shaft machinery plant for a new carrier, then it would be quite likely that the next class of cruiser would be designed around a 90,000 horsepower two-shaft plant that just happened to be half of the carrier plant--four boilers and two engines instead of eight and four, respectively. This was actually done by BuEng designing their standard machinery units as single-shaft plants that made a specified amount of horsepower (45,000 shp, in my example), allowing C&R's designers to put as many of them as were needed into a given design.

Oh, didn't know. I figured that because a single Shimakaze class Destroyer can produce 80,000 shp that it would make a difference there.
Based on Springsharp's rather optimistic view of the Montanas' performance, wedging three Shimakaze-class machinery plants into it would (just barely) be enough to reach 35 knots; realistically, you'd probably be looking at four of them. Which means you're going to have six to eight screws, depending on which version you use, which is a nightmare designers try very hard to avoid (because more shafts == more shaft alleys == more places that you can suffer flooding in if a torpedo springs the seals, not to mention simply trying to find space for all of them without any interference from their tip vortices).

Of course, the big problem is that destroyer machinery is designed for brief periods of very high output, but very low output over the long term. To make it small and light enough to fit into a destroyer, they have to make it a sprinter, not a distance runner, whereas battleships need to be able to sail at close to top speed in the battle line for hours on end in a fight. As an example of how low the power is most of the time, Fletcher-class destroyers had about 60,000 horsepower on tap to hit their top speed... but to make their cruising speed of 15 knots? They were putting out about 2700 horsepower.

And to give you an idea of the difference in weight in the machinery plants, the Iowa class made 212,000 shp with a total machinery weight (wet) of 4,835.8 tons, for a power-to-weight ratio of 43.84 horsepower per ton. By comparison, the Fletcher class, designed around the same time, made 60,000 shp with a total machinery weight (wet) of 862.4 tons, for a PWR of 69.57 horsepower/ton. (Figures taken from Friedman, though I calculated the PWRs myself.) And just ask any car guy what trying to force 50% more power per displacement out of an engine does to reliability and durability...
 
Back
Top