Battle Action Harem Highschool Side Character Quest (No SV, you are the Waifu)

[Tornadohunter]

It's a training exercise. If we have to bail them out now, hopefully they'll learn for the real battles. There's no point in an exercise that doesn't challenge our flight, and there are enough historical scenarios we can get interesting lore and actual training.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. There is no reason for us as a Flight to do a mission that will not improve any of our flight members' abilities, that will only serve as a lore dump, and that it will not help us bond together as a flight. Plus, we are about to do a timeskip, and a random sim with hard difficultly is much better in the long run compared to an useless Moderate exercise. Why go boring in a Battle Harem Quest when you can go big?

 

[Havocfett]

Agreed. There is no reason for us as a Flight to do a mission that will not improve any of our flight members' abilities,

Click to shrink...

Incorrect, a Moderate sim is likely to help the abilities of our non-Ace squaddies and increase co-ordination and teamwork across the board. This is, in fact, how teambuilding exercises work.

and that it will not help us bond together as a flight.

Click to shrink...

Also incorrect, an exercise does not need to be incredibly difficult to facilitate bonding.

Plus, we are about to do a timeskip, and a random sim with hard difficultly is much better in the long run compared to an useless Moderate exercise.

Click to shrink...

You have failed to make the case for that, and there isn't reason to believe that a Moderate exercise would be useless. At the very least it will increase co-ordination and teamwork among the squadmembers, as well as give us an important opportunity to assess our squadron in how it functions as a team.

 

[LightMage]

Agreed. There is no reason for us as a Flight to do a mission that will not improve any of our flight members' abilities, that will only serve as a lore dump, and that it will not help us bond together as a flight.

Click to shrink...

Wrong. Wrong. And wrong.

Neophyte Valkyrie(?) - Kouji
Junior Valkyrie - Sandra
Junior Valkyrie - Setsuna

They ain't gonna get better by fighting in ACE - one screw up = PAIN territory (?) They gonna get swatted. Moderate means they can actually learn and use their four days of training out of their three years at school to help em out.

We're fighting together. We're already bonding as a flight. We don't need DIRE SIM STRAITS to help bond. Like I know forging bonds under fire is a thing, but we've already ya know flown together separately with both of them, they've met up separately together... all of us together don't know how we fight but the only *stress* point is between Anna and Shuri really. And something calmer is the better way to talk things out and figure out what flight patterns we might use and stuff.

Cuz I doubt the rookies are gonna hear much in a difficult sim.

Plus, we are about to do a timeskip, and a random sim with hard difficultly is much better in the long run compared to an useless Moderate exercise. Why go boring in a Battle Harem Quest when you can go big?

Click to shrink...

What, 14 updates, and we've had like cool scenes in all of them. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BORING!? Lawl. People have eaten up every update.
Not sure how one sim's worth of training is much better in the long run of a time skip when we don't even know how GM's doing a time skip. When we don't even know how many more updates before the time skip will happen.

 

[elenchus]

[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)
[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?

 

[Interested Party]

We are very fixated on this whole simulator type and difficulty thing, aren't we?

Don't get me wrong, that's important in many ways, but I must confess that I am much more worried about the whole cut loose/hold back/defer to Sandra issue. Which no one really seems to be discussing. It just is.

(Going to sleep now)

 

[The Sylentnight]

It'll be hard, give us a nice infodump (hopefully) without being too horribly emotional for us. Yes, we might lose one or two of our allies- but we'll be doing our best, and it's important for us to learn to continue the mission even if something happens. If we break down the moment a friend gets hit we're fucked in real combat.

The point to freakout is now- not during combat, but during training. We need to get past the freakouts, and only going against pitifully easy enemies won't do that for us. A randomly generated scenario won't have the nice infodump and will have about the same emotional impact on us as any of the civilian-less historical scenarios.

Click to shrink...

You have never dealt with someone who's had PTSD before have you?

Freakouts are not good. As someone who had lost an important family member to PTSD, I can personally say that's the quickest way to lose a meaningful relationship with anyone.

 

[Olivebirdy]

>[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
>>[X]Blitzkrieg (Search and Destroy. The Three Hundred Frames have devastated Antagonist forces across the entire European front. Uralsk breach was destroyed. March for either the Moscow or Elazig breaches, destroy every Antagonist you find.)

 

[Alphaleph]

[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)
[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?

 

[Blaze121o]

[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)

[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?

 

[notgreat]

*To get past the freakout*

Wat.

Our freakout is MurderMode. Our *ALLIES UNDER ATTACK / ALLIES KILLED* as suggested so far seems to be to kill anything that seems to be threatening. We have Valks performing friendly fire. We shoot our allied Valks. We have our supports in the town under fire. WE KILL THE OTHER TOWNSFOLK ATTACKING THEM.
ANTAGONISTS KILL ALLY. WE WIPE OUT THEIR BASE AND FEEL GUILTY FOR NOT SLAUGHTERING THEM FAST ENOUGH / SAVING OUR ALLIES.

Our freakout is 100% murder mode + more guilt. At least that's what I've gotten from the history / past updates. It seems to support my view.
*I don't expect us to hide in the inn for a week going NOOOO SACHI.*

TLDR we cry after we burn and salt the earth. When combat is over and it is ok to breakdown.

Click to shrink...

That works pretty well solo, but now we're part of a team. Going into a thoughtless MurderMode will be bad in the mid-late game, since we'll stop coordinating with our team. If we ever get called in a Coroner or Trump, we'll need to work as a team. If we go full MurderMode, we won't be as useful to them.

Doing another moderate scenario if we don't hold back is useless and boring. If we do hold back then it makes sense, but if we don't it'll be a bore. And I feel that deferring to Sandra is the correct decision since she's our leader, and she should be the one to determine what form the training will take. At the same time, I really don't like the idea of us deferring to Sandra, her telling us to go all out, and just slaughtering a moderate scenario like we did last time. (And that's what a lot of the current votes are looking like)

You have never dealt with someone who's had PTSD before have you?

Freakouts are not good. As someone who had lost an important family member to PTSD, I can personally say that's the quickest way to lose a meaningful relationship with anyone.

Click to shrink...

I will admit that I have not. However, going from our previous near-freakouts, it won't be one that'll be hostile to our allies- it'll be one where we go maximum murder on our enemies (And/or crash the simulator)
Definitely don't want a real freakout like what could happen with Vae Victus though. A relatively minor one of 'Our ally got hurt, KILL'? That'd probably be fine. It wouldn't involve us going cataconic- see what happened with Koujirou. He got heavily damaged and we panicked a little but it wasn't a full-on freakout.

Plus, the world operates to a degree on anime logic rather than IRL logic. We've got a core that's helping us adjust. We won't have totally normal PTSD reactions.

 

[Aranfan]

[x] Havocfett

 

[ArchRegis]

[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)
[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?

Added mission selection. I think this is fine. A moderate difficulty to ease the newbies in.

Don't get me wrong, that's important in many ways, but I must confess that I am much more worried about the whole cut loose/hold back/defer to Sandra issue. Which no one really seems to be discussing. It just is.

Click to shrink...

Doing another moderate scenario if we don't hold back is useless and boring. If we do hold back then it makes sense, but if we don't it'll be a bore. And I feel that deferring to Sandra is the correct decision since she's our leader, and she should be the one to determine what form the training will take. At the same time, I really don't like the idea of us deferring to Sandra, her telling us to go all out, and just slaughtering a moderate scenario like we did last time.

Click to shrink...

Guys, Sandra isn't an idiot. At least, if mission selection comes first, Sandra herself knows what happened last time Shuri and Anna were allowed to do as they pleased in a moderate sim. She ended up launching missiles at a DEAD ANTAGONIST because they were TOO FAST FOR HER. If she says to cut loose, she's disqualified as leader, in which case we have a whole 'nother problem.

 

[defenestrator]

[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)
[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?

Changing vote.

I guess this would be the warm-up mission for our new flight and with Sandra at the helm.

 

[skaianDestiny]

Plus, the world operates to a degree on anime logic rather than IRL logic. We've got a core that's helping us adjust. We won't have totally normal PTSD reactions.

Click to shrink...

This world is a -1 world. Things are taken a lot more serious than they would be normally. Anime logic dictates the tsundere can wail on the MC with no one interfering. Here she gets tsunblocked by basically everyone. In addition she has shown restraint on her own. A typical one wouldn't.

 

[The Sylentnight]

I will admit that I have not. However, going from our previous near-freakouts, it won't be one that'll be hostile to our allies- it'll be one where we go maximum murder on our enemies (And/or crash the simulator)
Definitely don't want a real freakout like what could happen with Vae Victus though. A relatively minor one of 'Our ally got hurt, KILL'? That'd probably be fine. It wouldn't involve us going cataconic- see what happened with Koujirou. He got heavily damaged and we panicked a little but it wasn't a full-on freakout.

Plus, the world operates to a degree on anime logic rather than IRL logic. We've got a core that's helping us adjust. We won't have totally normal PTSD reactions.

Click to shrink...

It may seem like that but Avalanche has through in realism and I suspect him to treat it as such. While it may seems like the first few days were not bad: do remember that when one of the other people in our class/squadron we almost targeted them and shot them, and Anna fell into a bit of deeper depression and stuff after the Sim Battle with the Picnic Gang.

It's the little things that keep catching up to the person and makes them feel out of place and feel like it's not right. When sound of the engine turns on or pops makes them freakout, you start to see that they're not really here. They're still back in a memory. The easiest way to let them get use to it is to do it little by little. Not full OVERDRIVE into the situation.

 

[LightMage]

That works pretty well solo, but now we're part of a team. Going into a thoughtless MurderMode will be bad in the mid-late game, since we'll stop coordinating with our team. If we ever get called in a Coroner or Trump, we'll need to work as a team. If we go full MurderMode, we won't be as useful to them.

Doing another moderate scenario if we don't hold back is useless and boring. If we do hold back then it makes sense, but if we don't it'll be a bore. And I feel that deferring to Sandra is the correct decision since she's our leader, and she should be the one to determine what form the training will take. At the same time, I really don't like the idea of us deferring to Sandra, her telling us to go all out, and just slaughtering a moderate scenario like we did last time. (And that's what a lot of the current votes are looking like)


I will admit that I have not. However, going from our previous near-freakouts, it won't be one that'll be hostile to our allies- it'll be one where we go maximum murder on our enemies (And/or crash the simulator)
Definitely don't want a real freakout like what could happen with Vae Victus though. A relatively minor one of 'Our ally got hurt, KILL'? That'd probably be fine. It wouldn't involve us going cataconic- see what happened with Koujirou. He got heavily damaged and we panicked a little but it wasn't a full-on freakout.

Plus, the world operates to a degree on anime logic rather than IRL logic. We've got a core that's helping us adjust. We won't have totally normal PTSD reactions.

Click to shrink...

...

Sigh. Freaking out so we can get used to freaking out is not how we stop ourselves freaking out mid-game. This is not anime logic, this is more of IRL/Future Sci-Fi Logic. -1 world remember?

Sandra does not seem like she'll be giving us the *GREEN LIGHT KILL ALL* vote for moderate. Besides this will give us a good idea if Sandra is best wafiu I mean leader.

TLDR any TRAUMA CHOICE is bad.
TLDR Moderate is probably best way to get used to team / figure out how we're doing things / let newbs carry some weight.

 

[khang]

[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)
[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?

 

[skaianDestiny]

I love people who think freaking out, especially with PTSD, helps. Here's a hint: they don't.

 

[notgreat]

Guys, Sandra isn't an idiot. At least, if mission selection comes first, Sandra herself knows what happened last time Shuri and Anna were allowed to do as they pleased in a moderate sim. She ended up launching missiles at a DEAD ANTAGONIST because they were TOO FAST FOR HER. If she says to cut loose, she's disqualified as leader, in which case we have a whole 'nother problem.

Click to shrink...

Do we actually know that mission selection comes first? That's what it's listed as in the options, but order of options does not necessarily mean order of execution (though it often does)
In addition, she may want to impress upon the other members of the group how much more there is to learn. Or try to figure out some team dynamics on letting the aces cover the majority while the newbs act as cleanup.

This world is a -1 world. Things are taken a lot more serious than they would be normally. Anime logic dictates the tsundere can wail on the MC with no one interfering. Here she gets tsunblocked by basically everyone.

Click to shrink...

Yes, that's why I used words like 'to a degree' and (not) 'totally normal'. It operates to a degree. It's -1, not -3 or worse.

Sigh. Freaking out so we can get used to freaking out is not how we stop ourselves freaking out mid-game. This is not anime logic, this is more of IRL/Future Sci-Fi Logic. -1 world remember?

Click to shrink...

Learning to not freak out whenever an ally is hurt is what I was getting at. We freak out a little and either catch ourselves reminding that it's a sim, or crash the sim- reminding us that it's a sim.

The easiest way to let them get use to it is to do it little by little. Not full OVERDRIVE into the situation.

Click to shrink...

I love people who think freaking out, especially with PTSD, helps. Here's a hint: they don't.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. And having an ally take damage in a simulation is a much better situation than having them take damage during a battle. Or having to face millions of civilian deaths. Having a minor scare before being immediately reminded it's nothing as compared to facing the actual PTSD trigger full-on is a big difference.

And even if we try to play it safe, it's only a matter of time before someone gets injured mid-combat. Do you want to go full-on KILL EVERYTHING, or just get back to killing them while staying with the group?

 

[Katreus]

It's a little strange (and troubling) that some people seem to treat an intentional PTSD trigger like it's a vaccine shot for future triggers... And attempting shock therapy through intentional triggers is not a way to heal PTSD. It's a way to reinforce it.

 

[Drasis]

>[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
>>[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)

 

[Broccoliccoli]

[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweepdown the coast.)
[X] Since there are two aces in the flightnow, would you like Shuri and I to holdback further? Or should we stop for thenext exercise and decide after that?

 

[LightMage]

Hey guys WHAT IF WE GOT THE GUY DRIVING THE GIANT ROBOT DRUNK TO SEE IF THAT MADE HIM PILOT BETTER?

*hint* it didn't.

The 100 natural crit did though.

/Reference made/

You don't gain Trauma Resistance by inflicting Trauma upon yourself guys. I'm fairly sure that's how things work here.

 

[The Sylentnight]

Agreed. And having an ally take damage in a simulation is a much better situation than having them take damage during a battle. Or having to face millions of civilian deaths. Having a minor scare before being immediately reminded it's nothing as compared to facing the actual PTSD trigger full-on is a big difference.

And even if we try to play it safe, it's only a matter of time before someone gets injured mid-combat. Do you want to go full-on KILL EVERYTHING, or just get back to killing them while staying with the group?

Click to shrink...

You don't get them used to it little by little by making them see something similar to a memory. Because it doesn't stop with one memory, you suddenly remember all of them.

You get them use to it little by little by having them talk about it. By having them sit down and being there for them when they need it. Forcing it doesn't help.

Do I agree playing it safe won't last forever and we will have to eventually deal with a comrade being injure? Yes.

Do I think trying to deal with the problem like this is the best way, especially this early in the timeline? No, not really.

Best way would be to talk to people who have experienced it. Like Meyers said, talking with the Instructors or older students who have been on the frontlines. Having someone being able to relate to you in anyway and talk about it, get some shit off your self makes dealing with PTSD... while not easy, better when someone can be there for you when you fall down.

I would suggest Shuri. but considering we're still kind of in the middle of a love/hate foe-yay sexual tension thing that Yuri shippers scream 'TRU WUV' it's probably no the best right now. Maybe that one Instructor we were told about who's name I have forgotten.

 

[Tornadohunter]

Incorrect, a Moderate sim is likely to help the abilities of our non-Ace squaddies and increase co-ordination and teamwork across the board. This is, in fact, how teambuilding exercises work.



Also incorrect, an exercise does not need to be incredibly difficult to facilitate bonding.



You have failed to make the case for that, and there isn't reason to believe that a Moderate exercise would be useless. At the very least it will increase co-ordination and teamwork among the squadmembers, as well as give us an important opportunity to assess our squadron in how it functions as a team.

Click to shrink...

A moderately difficult scenario does not increase co-operation between the rookies and the aces because a moderate scenario is not a challenge for half the flight, meaning the aces are limited to providing small cover and to be an insignificant part of the exercise, which is not clearly what is going to happen in a real-life situation. Sims are meant to prepare Valkyries for warfare, not border patrol. This is also not mentioning the fact that when Koujirou merged the flights, his intention was to give himself a harder challenge. While an argument can be made for too much, too soon, remember that Moderate stuff is for classwork, not extracurricular items like sims. Other than anime logic, there's not many other reasons for the flight merge.

On to your second point, yes, an exercise does not need to be incredibly difficult, which is why impossible is out of the question. But you cannot expect spontaneous teamwork between the scrubs and the aces if you do not create a safe environment for this co-operation to grow. Moderate difficulty isolates the aces, as they are not tested at all, unlike a real-life situation (remember how Anna and Shuri curbstomped a moderate scenario on the first day without breaking a sweat). It is better to put our flight in a scenario that they will likely face out on the battlefield, not some easy mission from the past.

As for your final point, Moderate creates a false balance in the flight by isolating and marginalizing the aces from the rest of the flight, it is not simulating a more realistic scenario (i.e. the whole point of the simulations) than a difficult one. A moderate scenario may increase the teamwork between the non-aces, but, when you isolate nearly half the flight while not providing a more realistic simulation than what a difficult one provides, it serves no point in doing a moderate scenario compared to a difficult one.

Side-Note: to @LightMage - When you mentioned that everyone does not know each other's fighting styles, why put a moderate difficulty in an already limited environment (no Higgs = sadness) to limit half the flight even more? That is why a difficult scenario is better for me; it doesn't limit the aces, it creates a more realistic real-life situation, and it helps the flight co-operate much better. You're hurting our flight's balance and co-operation if you limit the aces' input.