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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition

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Simon_Jester said:
This isn't hysteria. I think we objectively have a problem because of fuel becoming more expensive. Poland's going into political unrest over this kind of thing; that doesn't happen unless fuel shortages are causing real economic consequences.

We've been quite conservative about things like roads and oil extraction, and as I've said many times before, I think it's because we keep projecting 21st century American progressive sensibilities onto a mid-20th century developing-country economic reality. It's biting us in the ass.
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Oh no I am not denying that there was a problem, in the sense that energy prices in Poland had legit climbed high enough to cause people serious problems. I was just ribbing on SupSov and friends for thinking there was some serious structural/technological problem that was preventing us from expanding oil production sufficiently- as opposed to the current high prices being merely the result of RNGsus beating us over the head with help from anti-corruption's obstructions.

We shoved what four dice into Samotor over two turns and only made it to 70/100 progress.
 
General_Urist said:
Oh no I am not denying that there was a problem, in the sense that energy prices in Poland had legit climbed high enough to cause people serious problems. I was just ribbing on SupSov and friends for thinking there was some serious structural/technological problem that was preventing us from expanding oil production sufficiently- as opposed to the current high prices being merely the result of RNGsus beating us over the head with help from anti-corruption's obstructions.

We shoved what four dice into Samotor over two turns and only made it to 70/100 progress.
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One might argue that Voz undermining oil extraction through cronyism, and then the complete failure of the oil industry afterwards due to an attempt to root out corruption, is a structural issue.
 
General_Urist said:
Oh no I am not denying that there was a problem, in the sense that energy prices in Poland had legit climbed high enough to cause people serious problems. I was just ribbing on SupSov and friends for thinking there was some serious structural/technological problem that was preventing us from expanding oil production sufficiently- as opposed to the current high prices being merely the result of RNGsus beating us over the head with help from anti-corruption's obstructions.

We shoved what four dice into Samotor over two turns and only made it to 70/100 progress.
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What is limiting oil extraction is people trying to think decades ahead about the future environment in a Time were that is not a thing at all.
 
To me it just seemed like we just didn't really have many incentives to invest in oil during the Voz years as we had no indicators for its prize and every oil project we completed made less money than the last so why not invest in the consumer goods industry to get that up and running and make consistent RpT and employ more people.
 
The main thing is that the population and the power usage per capita are both skyrocketing. There'll be a time where we can be less aggressive about this and shift the power mix. Early renewables should be available by around the 80s and can be justified from a natsec perspective, though they won't beat fossil fuels on the price game until either the petrodollar collapses or the 2010s.

Until then, we need to aggressively get out of this developmentalist period. Despite the political instabilities, I think we're closer than realized towards preventing the OTL collapse. Breaking the military's stranglehold on computers is one of the big risks still to come, meme OGAS or no meme OGAS.
 
MSH said:
The main thing is that the population and the power usage per capita are both skyrocketing. There'll be a time where we can be less aggressive about this and shift the power mix. Early renewables should be available by around the 80s and can be justified from a natsec perspective, though they won't beat fossil fuels on the price game until either the petrodollar collapses or the 2010s.

Until then, we need to aggressively get out of this developmentalist period. Despite the political instabilities, I think we're closer than realized towards preventing the OTL collapse. Breaking the military's stranglehold on computers is one of the big risks still to come, meme OGAS or no meme OGAS.
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The military here isn't the all consuming economy beast like the OTL as well if have been reading updates correctly.
 
Wondering what new projects we're eventually going to get in services now that we only have childcare, transportation, and insurance remaining. I assume there might be expanded road clearing given the new roads or more garbage capabilities if this isn't enough. I'd also guess more legal projects, as there's a clear need for it, albeit a lack of lawyers for them.
 
UrWishy said:


Total Resources of USSR (1928 to 1965)
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By contrast, here's RL US real (IE, inflation adjusted) GDP over that period.


Truly soviet worker stronke - percentage growth is higher before WW2 than the USA saw over this entire period! (Well, more significantly this is the upward explosion of a modernizing economy versus the incremental improvement of a modern one)

(Couldn't get the graph to just be normal and only include the actual data ranges :p)
 
HanEmpire said:
It says it right there, it's the total Resources of the USSR. We're a command economy and our Ministry always has access to double digit percentage of the national economy, so UrWishy calculated the size of the total pie using our slice.
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I see, on closer look the numbers check out. But it would have been clearer if the graph indicated it had units of "resource income per half-annum" or such.
 
ZabetTheRabbit said:
All I can tell is that number go up. And isn't that what really matters in the end? shhh don't worry about other "economic indicators"
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Most of those have been doing tolerably well too. People live in nicer places, more have jobs under nicer conditions, and so on.

The pollution, of course, is something we're trying not to think about, because in-character a lot of people in the 1960s aren't thinking about it.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Most of those have been doing tolerably well too. People live in nicer places, more have jobs under nicer conditions, and so on.

The pollution, of course, is something we're trying not to think about, because in-character a lot of people in the 1960s aren't thinking about it.
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So what if the River was on fire trees catch on fire all the time why is it so hard to imagine water can as well. - the average Soviet factory manager.
 
The callous disregard for the environment in the mid 20th century is hard for our modern sensibilities to comprehend. Anthropocentrism and not worrying about global warming are one thing, but the powers that be of the era really looked at stuff like rivers catching fire from all the hydrocarbons in them and went "ehh, no biggie".

Under Malenkov TTL there were at least moves towards curtailing pollution that was directly harmful to human health (e.g. smog) and I hope that isn't being eroded.
 
General_Urist said:
Anthropocentrism and not worrying about global warming are one thing
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In fact, I will say more - I can name some Soviet philosophers and writers who promoted the ideas of the need for climate change - not through the release of hydrocarbons (because we need to get rid of the oil and gas industry), but through special mirrors or artificial suns. In particular, the goal was to expand the subtropical zone (which was considered the most favorable for life), as well as to free Antarctica from ice caps and begin the industrial development of the region.
 
Comrade Future said:
In fact, I will say more - I can name some Soviet philosophers and writers who promoted the ideas of the need for climate change - not through the release of hydrocarbons (because we need to get rid of the oil and gas industry), but through special mirrors or artificial suns. In particular, the goal was to expand the subtropical zone (which was considered the most favorable for life), as well as to free Antarctica from ice caps and begin the industrial development of the region.
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One gets the sense that a lot of these Soviet philosophers who considered the subtropical zone the most favorable for life didn't have much experience of living in a tropical climate prone to heat waves and 100% humidity...
 
Simon_Jester said:
One gets the sense that a lot of these Soviet philosophers who considered the subtropical zone the most favorable for life didn't have much experience of living in a tropical climate prone to heat waves and 100% humidity...
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Well, you know - considering that two-thirds of Russia is located in a cold zone (which leads not only to inconvenience for locals, but also to heating costs), and the other third is an extreme farming zone. So yes - even if the idea is stupid, it is still relevant for Russian people.
 
Yes, naturally. I'm not saying that people from such a cold country do not have reasons for thinking this way, merely remarking on the exact nature of the fallacy they are likely to wind up in as a result of being familiar with the problems of arctic conditions and unfamiliar with the problems of tropical conditions.
 
Something that has been a recurring find in the anti-corruption investigations has been Price Fixing. From the big ring in Gorky we got on the plan's first turn to the rash of them in Minsk exposed on the floor of the Supreme Soviet, this collusion among managers has been a major parasite on the Soviet economy.

And I can't think of any practical way to remedy it so long as we have market mechanics. It doesn't show up on any balance sheet or engineering drawing, and it's incentivized heavily by our profitability metrics. The pseudo-capitalist managers know their basic game theory, and can calculate that if they all keep their prices high they'll have better-looking numbers than if they all raced to the bottom trying to undercut each other. Anyone have any ideas? Please help.

Crazycryodude said:
Both the lack of a crash during the war and the explosive growth of the Voz era are kinda surprising to see actually charted out like that, very informative!
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In the war the Nazis couldn't get past Kyiv so we did not lose much production capacity, but I am surprised by how much it went up during it. As for The Voz, at 40% (25+15) of GDP it was our highest rate of investment thus far so it makes sense growth would be rapid, but I am surprised the number went up THAT fast.
 
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