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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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DeltaV11.2 said:
It is, I'm going to remind everyone, 1962 in the quest.
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Oh, ah, I am worrying about what we'll be able to do in the 70s and 80s. So yeah, this isn't stuff for the near term, though assembling a multi-launch moon ship might involve some of the same technology as a permanent propellant depot.

Though keeping liquid hydrogen in orbit is IMO 21st century technology, without the complexity and severe engineering challenges of trying to keep liquid hydrogen stored in orbit, a hypergolic or methlox propellant store is a cheap and relatively simple program. The Soviets tested hypergolic propellant transfers in OTL, quite successfully in the 70s.

General_Urist said:
It's not "moonshot victory versus build sustainable space program". It's "moonshot victory vs build foundations for sustainable space infrastructure and make the SupSov very cranky".
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I think people are underestimating just how cranky spending billions on space and just getting a propaganda win would make the SupSov. If the US Congress wasn't happy with the returns on the investments they were making into Apollo, I doubt even a majority of them would be happy with only a propaganda win - not at the cost the moon shot will take.

Well, maybe I am overestimating that risk too.

We do have a real chance of being successful at everything. The space program has been going REALLY well so far, after our slower-than-OTL start, and we've gotten crazy lucky with some of our rolls. So hey, maybe all this talk of what to prioritize if the crunch gets really bad won't be needed. That'd be pretty nice.

I'm just saying, if we did start to have real problems, I have my priorities.

Quickshot0 said:
How ever having said all this, I think fasquardron is being a little overdramatic as well.
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I certainly was to Simon.

But more generally, I've just been trying to show people my reasoning about my priorities IF we got unlucky or made seriously bad calls with regards to the space program. And I don't think that point is over-dramatic. Just, maybe I wasn't clear about making that point and instead it sounded like I thought there was a current crisis that needed to be addressed.

Simon_Jester said:
Never mind. Just... never mind. I don't want to talk to you about this anymore.
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I'm sorry, you were making a fair point and I shouldn't have snapped at you.

Regards,

fasquardon
 

    • [X] Plan Medical Minded, Moscow Moderation
      -[X]Secondary City Metro Lines(Stage 5), 1 Dice (75 R)
      -[X]Moscow Renovation, 2 Dice (120 R)
      -[X]Passenger Rail Network(Western SU), 4 Dice (280 R)

    • -[X]Consumable Product Initiatives(Stage 1), 2 Dice (100 R)
      -[X]Electrified Appliance Production, 2 Dice (120 R)
      -[X]Heat Pump Plants(Stage 1), 2 Dice (150 R)

    • -[X]Farming Supply Provisioning, 1 Dice (40 R)
      -[X]Agricultural Diversification, 3 Dice (150 R)

    • -[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Passenger Rail Network(Western SU)), 1 Dice
      -[X]Currency Agitation, 1 Dice


      [X] Plan Planes Trains and Roads guest starring the Medical Push
      -[X]Moscow Renovation, 3 Dice (180 R)
      -[X]Passenger Rail Network(Western SU), 2 Dice (140 R)
      -[X]Trans-Siberian Road, 2 Dice (120 R)

    • -[X]Consumable Product Initiatives(Stage 1), 1 Dice (50 R)
      -[X]Heat Pump Plants(Stage 1), 3 Dice (225 R)
    • -[X]Chemicalization of Alcohol Production, 2 Dice (100 R)


    • -[X]Agricultural Diversification, 2 Dice (100 R)
      -[X]Light Transportation Systems, 2 Dice (100 R)

    • -[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Moscow),
      -[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Heat Pumps),



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    differing actions. somehow I find myself a bit unsatisfied with both.
for example I like the second plan's infra allocation, but I prefer the first plan's... everything else, I think :V


eh, for now

[X] Plan Medical Minded, Moscow Moderation
 
General_Urist said:
Did this happen in the fifth plan? I thought the end of the plan was when we got a nat 1 on oil/gas, and we only unlocked our modern has power plants with the nat 100 in H2 1956.
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We had oil/gas power plant projects then already, fixed the title.
General_Urist said:
And while we didn't explicitly promise beating the Yankees to the moon, I'm not sure we explicitly promised putting the first man in orbit, or the first satellite- but look how pissy the SupSov got when we failed that one!
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Blackstar has said there is a good chance neither of us get the political will to get to the moon. The SupSov/Congress don't like immolating mountains of money to put people in a rock essentially. It can happen, but its not super likely and it will lead to a subsequent massive decrease in funding iirc

That is to say, I think Fasquardon is on the right track here.
 
To elaborate my thoughts: My understanding is that a unified CMEA currency is pretty much guaranteed at this point, the states all having agreed to it. Only the exact details were up in the air, so I took the "currency agitation" option to mean The Voz butting in to the negotiations to ensure that the new currency was implemented in a way that suited him and (he thinks) the work of the MNKh- potentially burning political capital meddling in things he does not properly understand.

If I'm misunderstanding and we actually do need the extra push to make sure the Euro happens, then I apologize and will probably update my plan.
 
fasquardon said:
I think people are underestimating just how cranky spending billions on space and just getting a propaganda win would make the SupSov. If the US Congress wasn't happy with the returns on the investments they were making into Apollo, I doubt even a majority of them would be happy with only a propaganda win - not at the cost the moon shot will take.

Well, maybe I am overestimating that risk too.

We do have a real chance of being successful at everything. The space program has been going REALLY well so far, after our slower-than-OTL start, and we've gotten crazy lucky with some of our rolls. So hey, maybe all this talk of what to prioritize if the crunch gets really bad won't be needed. That'd be pretty nice.

I'm just saying, if we did start to have real problems, I have my priorities.
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People kind of forget that the Apollo project was never popular in the US. In only barely broke even on popular support during the actual moon landing, but all around that people thought it was a waste of money. The apollo project greatly increased in popularity decades after it was over. The idea of it as this glorious achievement is far more modern than people think.

Similarly, the prestige victory wore out fast. Apollo 11 could be seen on every channel. The later missions did not get such broadcasts.

Now, part of that can be blamed on a failure of NASA doing outreach and getting the public interested in space, but I don't think we can expect to be much better at this.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Now, part of that can be blamed on a failure of NASA doing outreach and getting the public interested in space, but I don't think we can expect to be much better at this.
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I think awhile ago I saw something about the early Soviets managing to do fairly well in promoting their own successes in space. Though if that was true convincing of the public, or the public just going along because the authoritarian state promoted it, that I do not know.

Still as one can see with the Moon Landings now, it does give one some prestige many decades down the road as well, so I guess there is that?
 
Alright, so in terms of strategies for You Are Going To: Space we have:

- Bribing people with prestige, tech, and economic returns.
- Put all of the Space on TV so everyone can see it.
- International cooperation (voluntary) and international cooperation (involuntary).
- Create Soviet scifi nerds with open cultural standards.
- Avoid other forms of crisis so that nobody tries to raid the space budget.
- Put the space nerds we created into the party colleges to foment the creation of Space Communism several decades early.
- Start a bureaucratic conspiracy to hide parts of the space budget in other budgets, this might actually be legal due to us being the ministry of everything.
- Make Yuri Gagarin the next General Secretary (no consequences) (but unironically getting as many people who have experienced overview as possible in government would probably only help us).
- Trick the Americans into intensifying the space race, thus allowing us to justify intensifying the space race. To do this without triggering nuclear war I suggest we send the next President a photograph of Venus with "cope" written on the back in Russian.
- Take so many clandestine actions against the anti-space SupSov bloc that people start to think they're under a curse.
- Bribing people...with money.
 
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MSH said:
Alright, so in terms of strategies for You Are Going To: Space we have:

- Bribing people with prestige, tech, and economic returns.
- Put all of the Space on TV so everyone can see it.
- International cooperation (voluntary) and international cooperation (involuntary).
- Create Soviet scifi nerds with open cultural standards.
- Avoid other forms of crisis so that nobody tries to raid the space budget.
- Put the space nerds we created into the party colleges to foment the creation of Space Communism several decades early.
- Start a bureaucratic conspiracy to hide parts of the space budget in other budgets, this might actually be legal due to us being the ministry of everything.
- Make Yuri Gagarin the next General Secretary (no consequences) (but unironically getting as many people who have experienced overview as possible in government would probably only help us).
- Trick the Americans into intensifying the space race, thus allowing us to justify intensifying the space race. To do this without triggering nuclear war I suggest we send the next President a photograph of Venus with "cope" written on the back in Russian.
- Take so many clandestine actions against the anti-space SupSov bloc that people start to think they're under a curse.
- Bribing people...with money.
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This is one of those posts where every one of the 5 available reactions could work. I settled on the basic like. Getting tech nerds into the part is something The Voz is trying to do, but we're not getting any technocracy for a long time. Speaking of points two and 4... Ay yo Voznesensky you know those "artists" you call useless? If they write sci-fi they'll help make sure the next generation gives a shit about your cybernetics!

...This past discussion and vote have felt pretty quiet. I hope this quest is not dying.
 
General_Urist said:
...This past discussion and vote have felt pretty quiet. I hope this quest is not dying.
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don't be dramatic, Blackstar is still writing. she's just doing 3 quests at once, and the update was posted just 3 days ago.

truth is, a lot of "fast" discussion about this quest just happens on the discord. nothing secret or anything, but people who want an immediate answer often write there instead.
 
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