Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition

[Niksol]

Atomash is key to full scale nuclear utilization. Dice used in Atomash is saved in not having to constantly expand coal, which also lessens the transportation burden. Expanding expertise will help against a potential Chernobyl and aid in our nuclear rocket development.
Hopefully.

 

[fasquardon]

On the left end, Kleschev did the world and the members of the Supreme Soviet a favor by dying of a heart attack early in the year, with large portions of his faction splintering and the largest part taken over by Mikhail Zimyanin, effectively an over-ambitious Pravda editor.

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Aw, I'll miss Kleschev a bit.

All the insistence that Dzhussoev and Gulyam had that the reforms were the only way to go for the Austrian economy became effective attacks on their positions, ensuring that their strange deviations could be decisively expunged from the economic norm. Some of their supporters are still expected to stay and those who are convinced that capitalist methods of accumulation and development are the only way forward will keep to their perspectives no matter the reality, but an effective discreditation of the right wing has been achieved.

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Well! This is a very good prize for going hands-off on Austria. If our loony wing had actually gotten any political influence, things would have been bad.

continuing the drive to triple-lap American steel production

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Oh my...

This is US steel and pig iron production in OTL. Assuming the US of TTL are in the same ballpark (I could see US steel output being even higher in TTL since the US will have had more consistent economic intervention, the steel unions are probably an important group for the Democrats to curry favour with, lower military spending will mean that the US will have had more resources to invest domestically and there's been no oil crunch yet) our steel output is probably in the range of 350-450 million tonnes per annum. That's between 1/third and 1/half what China produces today and at least double what the OTL Soviet Union was producing in 1971 (in 1980 the Soviet Union produced 147.9 million tonnes a year, much of it low quality).

We are producing a STAGGERING amount of steel. I wonder what the heck we are actually using it on? Are we really building that much infrastructure compared to the OTL Soviet Union?

[]Inflatable Section Experiments: Launching an FGB-VA with the VA vehicle carrying an inflatable habitable section on its adaptor can prove the concept for future orbital work. The effective section itself will be a balloon designed to provide expansive living space for a theoretical crew with the conditions inside measured and monitored. If the test system works it can form a basis for the development of more advanced habitats, saving launch weight for a station program and enabling the construction of far larger experimental setups. Further, if the concept proves viable larger structures along the lines of centrifuges can be built to allow for more permanent orbital habitation in a decade. (-5 RpY Expected) (1 Dice)

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I want. 'Nuff said.

[]Reusable Launchers: The initial MKAS program following the PKA was dismissed by Glushko as an impossible engineering nightmare but it can still be resumed for the sake of providing a lighter launch vehicle. Using long-burning hydrogen engines along with a reusable launcher attached to a drop tank will improve launch capacity and especially if paired with a carrier aircraft reduce costs. The technologies for the project itself are available today with the only issue being the degree of complicated engineering work. It is believed to be possible that some form of the MKAS concept could be launched in the decade allowing space to be opened to low-cost space launch. (-10 RpY Expected) (1 Dice)

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A light air-launched rocket could be useful, especially for the military (the airplane mothership would allow access to a wide variety of orbits at short notice) but designing an airplane suitable to be the mothership has proven to be challenging in OTL (though it would push forward our aerospace engineering, and yield some very big planes which could be used for other things potentially, much as the Antonov An-225 found a niche as a specialist logistics vehicle). But this wouldn't really be a path to a reuseable vehicle that could operate on the sort of scale that could make it cost competitive with our current expendable RLA vehicles and we in no way need any of the things this sort of platform would give us. We can make do with what we currently have.

This is a glorified science project that could yield mildly useful hardware.

[]Bulk Launch Methods: The rocket has historically been the only way that payloads and humans have gotten into space, but several other concepts deserve exploration. Everything from structural and design elevations on orbital cable elevators to rocket sleds must be considered. This program itself is only expected to be theoretical and focused on making designs for the possibility along with several small-scale models for scientific viability. Some plans have already been dismissed but investing in the future potential of orbit and easy delivery to space has always been a cornerstone of the program. (-5 RpY Expected) (1 Dice)

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Could be interesting to poke this.

My personal view is that bulk launch methods like launch loops, rocket sleds or space elevators require such high demand for getting lots of stuff off of the Earth that we are unlikely to see enough demand for these to be viable in the next century, if ever.

There comes a point where if you need that much crud in space it is cheaper to make the babies who'll grow up to be new workers up there and build moon bases and factories to make all the stuff that doesn't absolutely have to come from Earth.

In other words, this is a science project that will probably never yield useful hardware.

[]Mars Sample Return: The Mars program has demonstrated that a lander can be launched and landed on the surface but further steps are needed to develop the techniques necessary for landing a larger craft. The RLA-3 has the throw weight necessary for providing a heavy enough lander and the capacity for a sample return but the technologies involved are still purely theoretical. A series of heavier landers with accompanying rovers can be developed to test landing systems. Assuming an ideal timeframe would allow a sample return before the end of the decade along with the development of hardware capable of a partially propulsive landing. (-10 RpY Expected) (1 Dice)

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I want to complete nuclear engines before we go for this one.

A nuclear drive would ENORMOUSLY increase the size of the sample that could be sent back to Earth as such a mission could have a much larger return stage. Bigger samples mean more science.

[]Station Program: With the availability of the RLA-3 for the launch of very heavy payloads, nothing prevents the development and launch of a forty-ton habitable module to orbit. The module will then be crewed through a conventional launch of the FGB-VA bus along with the transfer of experiments and technologies aboard. The development of a whole new spacecraft will take some time, but starting work towards the sustained habitation of space can enable further projects in low earth orbit and truly long-duration experiments. Current limitations in electrical and thermal systems will be the major limit on the duration of these integrated stations, but if the next decade can replicate the gains of the last ten years those will be blown past. (-25 RpY Expected) (1 Dice)

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I want to finish playing with inflatable test articles before we fund a space station.

[]Mercury Exploration Program: Current techniques and probes are sufficient for the flyby of mercury, with the main limitation falling towards the boost stage. Due to the problematic orbit of mercury, an intercept requires a massive degree of velocity to even attempt. Combining an RLA-3 along with a newly developed enlarged interplanetary stage is one proposal for such a mission allowing for an easy capability expansion without new technical developments. The stage will use the same engines and same tankage techniques if significantly scaled up for increased capability. Orbiting mercury is beyond any developed rocket, but a theoretical nuclear engine may be able to fix that. (-5 RpY Expected) (1 Dice)

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A Mercury mission could be good right now.

[]CMEA Payloads: Comecon has always wanted to launch more tonnage but at the current rates that has been questionable. Fully bringing the space program into international prominence can help any member nation deliver non-military payloads to space for a nominal cost, further improving scientific return and justifying the massive investments made to the RLA. Most of the payloads have come as a part of the German and Indian programs but those alone are expected to be sufficient to keep the production capacity of RLA's saturated for the near future and ensure a steady increase in orbital development. The capitalist world is currently behind in space program integration and ensuring that CMEA fills the lists of below the US and Union is a practical diplomatic coup. (Expands Maximum Spending) (1 Dice)

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Absolutely must do this! We wanna get lots of use out of our RLAs and we don't want our friends thinking that they need to blow their funds making their own rockets. I want all of our allies investing in cool hardware that we can borrow to super charge our manned program in a few years, or into cool hardware producing data they can share with our scientists...

Prison Reform Program: Following the report of the Obukhov Commission on the prison crisis and seeking a way to modernize the industry several changes are expected to be implemented. Previous methods of increasing workforce participation have proven to be questionable in implementation with punishment proving to be a lacking implementation. Rather than focusing on punishment, the system can be shifted towards encouraging work through alternative means. New extended sentencing guidelines will be passed with the expectation that if a prisoner is participating in work programs the sentences will be effectively reduced. For those that do not work, this represents a near doubling of sentences but it will remove the incentives for the excessive punishment of non-working prisoners. (1 Dice) (Supreme Soviet)

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Worth doing just to start moving away from the punishment-focused system we inherited from the Tsars.

Domestic Production Program: Balakirev has come to the arguably good political decision that the current struggle with trade balances makes a fertile political environment. Coming on hard to the fiber issue Balakirev has advocated for tariffs on imported fibers to improve the profitability of domestic production and strengthen industry discipline. This is to be accompanied by a strong subsidy for plants that utilize domestic petroleum by allowing them to fast-track several regulations to increase production as rapidly as possible. The full act is unlikely to pass, but some watered-down version is nearly certain to get through the Supreme Soviet, if only as a hanger-on to other legislation. (1 Dice) (Balakirev)

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Sheesh. I'm not keen on this. We'd be shooting India in the foot and loosening safety regulations on our synthetic fibre manufacturing for what? If we want to improve our trade balance, we can work on other things.

[]Immigration Reforms: There is a desperate need for more labor primarily in non-university-educated segments of the population. Sourcing it domestically has already posed severe limitations with a lack of supply of new workers graduating from universities despite the post-war population boom. By burning some influence the general immigration laws can be further opened, allowing citizenship to be granted for strategic and technical education on an accelerated basis along with improving the flow of immigration throughout CMEA. Enterprises will further be allowed to sponsor as many applicants as desired, with cross-border applications directly allowed and pre-approved for any work that cannot be filled over three months with a domestic applicant. (Uses Favor) (1 Dice)

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This sounds very promising.

It'll cause brain drain issues for our allies, but improving our immigration laws to attract the best of the best will help the people we're importing as cheap labour too. Plus this should generally strengthen the CMEA.

[]Expanding Preparation Schools: Those going into university from a suboptimal educational background or general tracks have only steadily expanded in recent years. With the pressure to improve education, the question of sufficient preparation for entrance exams is pertinent and essential for improving student achievement. Taking over partially from the private sector several programs in mathematics and sciences can be started to allow more motivated students to improve their educations and compensate for poor previous performance in placements. The majority of institutions will run on the weekends and during the summer, providing opportunities and reducing scheduling conflicts. (100 Resources per Dice 0/150) (-8 CI2 Electricity +2 Educated Labor)

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We should probably do this at some point in the near future tho. Don't want to make it so we make up too much of our educated labour shortfall by taking other people's graduates.

[]Expanded Education: More students need to go into the education system as the previous lengthening of terms is still working itself through the system. The priority will thus fall towards a comprehensive reform of the middling and lower paths of the education system to improve the performance of non-university-bound students. Technical school graduates will be offered a final year program that directly corresponds to a certification with automatic enrolment assuming a conclusion of the program and following work. To improve labor responses a considerable amount of funding can be pushed towards corrective institutions, compensating for children that would otherwise fall out of the system through an intensive program of boarding schools to re-introduce them to the standard curriculum. (Uses Favor) (1 Dice)

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I am not sure that this is such a good education reform though. Especially given the cost.

[]Force a Euro Vote: The current economic crisis in CMEA is the perfect pretext for driving forward decisive reforms to improve integration and local economics. The Euro is still in its prototypical stages but something along the lines of a universal currency of interconvertibility can be implemented now. This would be an effective introduction of standards for national economies including maximum deficits outside emergency circumstances, a normalization of interest rates, and several financial standards otherwise only upheld in the Union and Germany. The new currency itself would serve as a transitional point, taking a basket of currencies across the block to keep its valuation stable while expanding its use for all inter-state banking transactions. (Uses Favor) (1 Dice)

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This option is SUPER interesting. We already used a favour to push for accellerated Euro adoption. This... I dunno. That this is an option worries me about what is going on politically. Assuming that the Euro isn't just dead without spending two favours on the project, I worry that pushing it too hard will lead to a sloppy Euro. Plus, there's probably better uses for that favour, like immigration reform.

[]Enterprise Benefits: Allowing enterprises to offer expanded benefits can be a means of reducing direct labor price raises while continuing to expand services. An enterprise partnering with state services at a larger scale can allow some savings to be provided along with ensuring that job offers are not a direct competition of funding. The largest factor of these is likely to be canteen costs being deferred along with partnerships with local businesses to provide services to workers for free. Little reductions are expected from a full passage but even a tiny reduction in labor costs is an improvement to economic efficiency. (1 Dice)

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Oh heck no! No way! The OTL Soviet Union did this sort of thing and it made the enterprises more difficult to control, since they not only provided favours, and gave people jobs, they also gave people key services! We absolutely do not want!

[]Scientific Exchange Programs: Formalizing large-scale study and student programs to analyze foreign farming practices can improve domestic experiences and transfer new techniques. Much of what is learned will be more of an academic curiosity than useful information, but any improvement that can be made is an improvement. Borrowing techniques aren't expected to walk over any toes, as even the capitalists have not trademarked any methodologies. Expertise transfer is not expected to remotely work during this plan, but it can help in the next plan. (1 Dice)

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Can't go wrong with freedom of information where science is concerned.

[]Restructuring Bonus Allocations: The allocation of bonuses for worker performance has always been done at the managerial level but further efforts to improve allocations can be undertaken. Recentralizing the control of allocation towards lower level management for individual workers along with enforcing performance rating schemes can provide for a more dynamic and efficient environment. This will effectively decentralize the scheme along with implementing a formal rating system for most state enterprises ensuring that the most productive workers are compensated for their work. Bonus pay will further be publicized to ensure that rewards are fair and transparent, improving the worker's view of the system and eliminating any criticism of its allocation. (1 Dice)

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More transparent bonuses sound good.

[]Labor Cost Adjustments: Labor cost increases are only expected to increase as the Union continues its drive towards modernization leaving several sectors of the economy growing more expensive. Measures to control costs will have to be taken to provide for low-cost construction labor if development is to continue at the same pace. A full currency revaluation is beyond the scope of ability either politically or economically but several softer measures can be implemented. Reducing same-job cost increase maximums can allow current growth in labor costs to be slowed and improve the dynamism of labor by encouraging varied employment. (1 Dice)

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I'm not sure what this reform does. Anyone understand the bureaucratese here?

Regards,

fasquardon

 

[Vi'Talzin]

This option is SUPER interesting. We already used a favour to push for accellerated Euro adoption. This... I dunno. That this is an option worries me about what is going on politically. Assuming that the Euro isn't just dead without spending two favours on the project, I worry that pushing it too hard will lead to a sloppy Euro. Plus, there's probably better uses for that favour, like immigration reform.

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The issue with the Euro is that well, its biggest backer (Kosygin) retired, and it seem its main SoE proponents got their political influence decimated during the Voz-Klim transition (through the anti-corruption campaigns and economic crisis I suspect) as you can see mentioned in the previous Euro favor:

[]Accelerate Euro Adoption: Current tepid questions on the Euro are due to the resignation of Kosygin and some agitation for local currency. The enterprises that have massively pushed for further trade integration have to an extent been discredited but the cause itself is still justified. Ensuring that the previously made plan for a universal currency across European CMEA is adopted in full and not politically fought can provide significant long-term dividends. Forcing the vote before 1975 and in what is likely to be an economic upturn will only further improve the odds of universal passage. (Costs a Favor from Romanov)

So right now, we have an uninterested Romanov (it cost a favor from him to make sure he is onboard with the vote), a Semyonov in a very shaky political position (if it takes a favor from him, the Euro's biggest proponent, to force a vote, it means he must be wary of spending his political capital in pushing for it) and well, us. If we aren't proactive here, I expect things to move very slowly in terms of the Euro. Especially if Semyonov loses his position in the next couple of years. So I guess the rationale of pushing for a vote now is ensuring the question of the Euro isn't thrown into the backburner.

The option as it is written seems relatively reasonable, certainly ensuring some fiscal responsibility in say, Yugoslavia would probably help us avoid some issues down the line, though at the cost of some economic growth, and having a version of the ECU should help with interbloc trade and to develop CMEA's financial insititutions. The main issue, of course, is if it fails. If it does, Semyonov spent a lot of political capital to look bad at a time his position is already shaky. We would probably lose some face and hurt our relationship with his faction as well. If it works, we please some enterprises, give ourselves and Semyonov a W and get significant progress on the question of the Euro.

 

[agumentic]

This sounds very promising.

It'll cause brain drain issues for our allies, but improving our immigration laws to attract the best of the best will help the people we're importing as cheap labour too. Plus this should generally strengthen the CMEA.

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It really isn't. Everyone, let's not forget that one of the goals of this plan is to create a wealthy domestic consumer base that can provide internal demand to our industry. Unsurprisingly, the best way to create said base is to actually pay our workers a lot - so, what is the point in trying to push through an immigration reform explicitly aimed at dropping the labor prices? That's just shooting ourselves in the foot.

Moreover, having to actually pay their workers will pressure the management into modernizing the production lines on its own, without us having to force it from above. We've already committed to one strategy, changing course now would be really counterproductive.

 

[Vi'Talzin]

[] Plan Transportation Goes BRR
-[]6390/6395 Resources (5 Reserve), 42 Dice Rolled
-[]Infrastructure (5/3 Dice, 580 R)
--[]Central Asian High Capacity Roads, 3 Dice (220 R), 98%/%
--[]Water Distribution Systems(Stage 7/10), 1 Dice (140 R), 0%/0%
--[]Development of the Volga, 1 Dice (110 R), 99%/100%
-[]Heavy Industry (9/10 Dice, 2240 R)
--[]Kursk Steel Mills(Stage 1/2), 3 Dice (630 R), 89%/94%
--[]Kansk-Achinsk Basin Exploitation(Stage 2/5), 1 Dice (160 R), 86%/100%
--[]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 3 Dice (930 R), 12%/19%
--[]Gorky Automotive Plant Modernization, 2 Dice (520 R), 36%/50%
-[]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[]Mars Sample Return, 1 Dice
--[]Mercury Exploration Program, 1 Dice
--[]CMEA Payloads, 1 Dice
-[]Light Industry (5/6 Dice, 740 R)
--[]Light Home Appliance Plants, 2 Dice (320 R), 79%/87%
--[]Second Generation Furnishings, 2 Dice (260 R), 79%/87%
--[]Home Supplies Production, 1 Dice (160 R), 100%/100%
-[]Chemical Industry (8/11 Dice, 1500 R)
--[]Timan-Pechora Fields, 1 Dice (130 R), 75%/90%
--[]Plastic Industries(Stage 2/5), 2 Dice (420 R), 35%/50%
--[]Expanded Ammonia Plants, 2 Dice (420 R) 77%/85%
--[]Synthetic Rubber Plants(Stage 2/4), 1 Dice (280 R), 100%
-[]Agriculture (4/4 Dice, 480 R)
--[]Farmers Markets, 2 Dice (220 R), 59%/72%
--[]Water Management Programs, 2 Dice (260 R), 59%/72%
-[]Services (5/3 Dice, 850 R)
--[]Expanded Childcare(Stage 6/6), 1 Dice (90 R), 52%/67%
--[]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 3/5), 4 Dice (570 R), 93%/97% (~67%/75% considering two stages)
-[]Bureaucracy (6/6 Dice, 0 R)
--[]Prison Reform Program, 1 Dice
--[]Increasing Domestic Innovation, 1 Dice
--[]Domestic Production Program, 1 Dice
--[]Force a Euro Vote, 1 Dice
--[]Reorganize a Department(Light Industry), 1 Dice
--[]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Transportation Enterprises)

Made this plan with an ideia of decisively adressing transportation this turn, not only is []Transportation Enterprises a cheap (Very High Profitability) project, but it should be an overall big boost to our economy by improving access to and decreasing transportation costs, especially now when oil prices are so low. Putting 4 dice in it and dedicating Klim's attention to it should give us better than even odds to finish it in one go.

Other than that, I think its now or never when it comes to starting -[]Atomash, all three stages should take around 10/11 dice considering progress reductions from our previous projects. So if we want to finish them all we really need to get started lest bad rolls or unforeseen circumstances make it difficult to fund. Also, in terms of heavy industry, we should probably do a automotive plant modernization, so we are better prepared to compete with the Japanese in the international market and also because it should be quite profitable. To that end, I think -[]Gorky Automotive Plant Modernization is a good place to start, it should earn us back some political favor from the local party considering the going under of the machine tooling monopoly over there by providing some employement to all those former Gorky Combinat engineers.

In terms of Bureaucracy, I think -[]Force a Euro Vote is my preferred choice, I want it to be done as soon as possible, so we have some extra tools and hedges against a block wide economic crisis. Hopefully we roll well and shore up Semyonov's position as well in doing so. I also put in Klim's focus on transportation enterprises so we can do two stages at once if all goes well, and into reorganizing LI since we lack a deputy and are almost all out of projects there. Hopefully a new deputy will bring in new projects.

 

[Simon_Jester]

What's this I'm hearing about people arguing that we shouldn't develop more oil fields this year? I seem to remember someone saying it, but I also know we're trying to keep oil prices down, but that some are worried about dropping them too low?

Can anyone summarize the state of discussion here?

 

[agumentic]

[] Plan Infrastructure and Money
-[]6395/6395 Resources (0 Reserve), 45 Dice Rolled
-[]Infrastructure (6/3 Dice, 710 R)
--[]Central Asian High Capacity Roads, 2 Dice (220 R), 65%/77%
--[]Water Distribution Systems(Stage 7/10), 2 Dice (280 R), 60%/72%
--[]Civilian Airports(Stage 3/5), 1 Dice (100 R), 40%/55%
--[]Development of the Volga, 1 Dice (110 R), 99%/100%
-[]Heavy Industry (9/10 Dice, 2240 R)
--[]Kursk Steel Mills(Stage 1/2), 3 Dice (630 R), 89%/94%
--[]Kansk-Achinsk Basin Exploitation(Stage 2/5), 1 Dice (160 R), 86%/100%
--[]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 3 Dice (930 R), 12%/19%
--[]Gorky Automotive Plant Modernization, 2 Dice (520 R), 36%/50%
-[]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[]Inflatable Section Experiments, 1 Dice
--[]Mercury Exploration Program, 1 Dice
--[]CMEA Payloads, 1 Dice
-[]Light Industry (5/6 Dice, 740 R)
--[]Light Home Appliance Plants, 2 Dice (320 R), 79%/87%
--[]Second Generation Furnishings, 2 Dice (260 R), 79%/87%
--[]Home Supplies Production, 1 Dice (160 R), 100%/100%
-[]Chemical Industry (8/11 Dice, 1560 R)
--[]Timan-Pechora Fields, 1 Dice (130 R), 75%/90%
--[]Plastic Industries(Stage 2/5), 3 Dice (630 R), 89%/94%
--[]Expanded Ammonia Plants, 2 Dice (420 R), 59%/72%
--[]Synthetic Rubber Plants(Stage 2/4), 2 Dice (380 R), 100%/100%
-[]Agriculture (4/4 Dice, 450 R)
--[]Domestic Meat Programs(Stage 4/10), 2 Dice (230 R), 2%/7%
--[]Farmers Markets, 2 Dice (220 R), 59%/72%
-[]Services (4/3 Dice, 695 R)
--[]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 3/5), 3 Dice (570 R), 93%/97%
--[]Town-Market Construction, 1 Dice (125 R), 15%/30%
-[]Bureaucracy (6/3+3 Forced Dice, 0 R)
--[]Prison Reform Program, 1 Dice
--[]Increasing Domestic Innovation, 1 Dice
--[]Domestic Production Program, 1 Dice
--[]Force a Euro Vote, 1 Dice
--[]Scientific Exchange Programs, 1 Dice
--[]Reorganize a Department(Light Industry), 1 Dice


So here's my version of the plan.
Infra: We finally address our long-standing issues of infrastructure, and so throw six dice that have a good chance to finish CA HC roads, Water stage 7, airports and Volga development all in one go.
Heavy Industry: We start Atommash and Gorky Modernization to help the city recover.
Rocketry: Inflatable Stations to prepare for possible future novel space stations, Mercury for our unmanned focus.
Light Industry: Standard "finish everything" array.
Chemical Industry: Plastics, Ammonia and Synthetic Rubber, all certain or likely to finish.
Agriculture: Farmer markets to sell meat and also going back to our highly profitable meat program.
Services: Finishing stage 3 of Transportation and small chance of finishing Town Markets as well.
Bureaucracy: Forcing the Euro as a favour, because now is the best time and it doesn't kneecap our domestic consumer base. Also Reorganizing LI department now that we cleared it and picking up harmless scientific exchanges.

 

[UrWishy]

Can anyone summarize the state of discussion here?

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Basically Blackstar said keeping it too low is making our industry inefficient and apparently (sudden i think?) there is a cut off on our drilling (probably causing our prices to spiral upwards without brakes)

Instead there is a consensus of slowly rising the oil prices now since apparenctly the longer the oil prces high the longer our economy to become efficient but still stable (than later when we have no brakes.)

 

[Vi'Talzin]

What's this I'm hearing about people arguing that we shouldn't develop more oil fields this year? I seem to remember someone saying it, but I also know we're trying to keep oil prices down, but that some are worried about dropping them too low?

Can anyone summarize the state of discussion here?

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Basically, if we get the oil price under 20 we will start exporting to Western markets, we would make a lot of money, but its not going to significantly affect the price of it internally and in CMEA. Unless we want to get some hard currency, it doesn't make much sense long term to start exporting oil, its basically stealing future economic growth for some immediate gains right now.

If we go too hard on oil now, our depletion rates will be much worse in following plans, so we will have to spend a lot more in extraction instead of new industry and growing our economy more directly. Basically, we want to keep oil prices low enough to spur strong economic growth in our sphere but not low enough that we screw ourselves in a decade. Hence, we should try to stay in the 20-40 bracket this plan, whilst probably letting it edge steadily towards the next one so our industry doesn't get too used to it.

 

[Vi'Talzin]

[X] Plan Transportation Goes BRR
-[X]6240/6395 Resources (150 Reserve), 41 Dice Rolled
-[X]Infrastructure (5/3 Dice, 580 R)
--[X]Central Asian High Capacity Roads, 3 Dice (220 R), 98%/%
--[X]Water Distribution Systems(Stage 7/10), 1 Dice (140 R), 0%/0%
--[X]Development of the Volga, 1 Dice (110 R), 99%/100%
-[X]Heavy Industry (9/10 Dice, 2240 R)
--[X]Kursk Steel Mills(Stage 1/2), 3 Dice (630 R), 89%/94%
--[X]Kansk-Achinsk Basin Exploitation(Stage 2/5), 1 Dice (160 R), 86%/100%
--[X]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 3 Dice (930 R), 12%/19%
--[X]Gorky Automotive Plant Modernization, 2 Dice (520 R), 36%/50%
-[X]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Mars Sample Return, 1 Dice
--[X]Mercury Exploration Program, 1 Dice
--[X]CMEA Payloads, 1 Dice
-[X]Light Industry (5/6 Dice, 740 R)
--[X]Light Home Appliance Plants, 2 Dice (320 R), 79%/87%
--[X]Second Generation Furnishings, 2 Dice (260 R), 79%/87%
--[X]Home Supplies Production, 1 Dice (160 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Chemical Industry (7/11 Dice, 1350 R)
--[X]Timan-Pechora Fields, 1 Dice (130 R), 75%/90%
--[X]Plastic Industries(Stage 2/5), 2 Dice (420 R), 35%/50%
--[X]Expanded Ammonia Plants, 2 Dice (420 R) 77%/85%
--[X]Synthetic Rubber Plants(Stage 2/4), 2 Dice (380 R), 100%
-[X]Agriculture (4/4 Dice, 480 R)
--[X]Farmers Markets, 2 Dice (220 R), 59%/72%
--[X]Water Management Programs, 2 Dice (260 R), 59%/72%
-[X]Services (5/3 Dice, 850 R)
--[X]Expanded Childcare(Stage 6/6), 1 Dice (90 R), 52%/67%
--[X]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 3/5), 4 Dice (570 R), 93%/97% (~67%/75% considering two stages)
-[X]Bureaucracy (6/6 Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Prison Reform Program, 1 Dice
--[X]Increasing Domestic Innovation, 1 Dice
--[X]Domestic Production Program, 1 Dice
--[X]Force a Euro Vote, 1 Dice
--[X]Reorganize a Department(Light Industry), 1 Dice
--[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Transportation Enterprises)

 

[MSH]

Making plans for this becomes extremely troublesome when things like the -20 for infra and the universal +10 aren't included in the listed cost.

 

[agumentic]

[X] Plan Infrastructure and Money
-[X]6395/6395 Resources (0 Reserve), 45 Dice Rolled
-[X]Infrastructure (6/3 Dice, 710 R)
--[X]Central Asian High Capacity Roads, 2 Dice (220 R), 65%/77%
--[X]Water Distribution Systems(Stage 7/10), 2 Dice (280 R), 60%/72%
--[X]Civilian Airports(Stage 3/5), 1 Dice (100 R), 40%/55%
--[X]Development of the Volga, 1 Dice (110 R), 99%/100%
-[X]Heavy Industry (9/10 Dice, 2240 R)
--[X]Kursk Steel Mills(Stage 1/2), 3 Dice (630 R), 89%/94%
--[X]Kansk-Achinsk Basin Exploitation(Stage 2/5), 1 Dice (160 R), 86%/100%
--[X]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 3 Dice (930 R), 12%/19%
--[X]Gorky Automotive Plant Modernization, 2 Dice (520 R), 36%/50%
-[X]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Inflatable Section Experiments, 1 Dice
--[X]Mercury Exploration Program, 1 Dice
--[X]CMEA Payloads, 1 Dice
-[X]Light Industry (5/6 Dice, 740 R)
--[X]Light Home Appliance Plants, 2 Dice (320 R), 79%/87%
--[X]Second Generation Furnishings, 2 Dice (260 R), 79%/87%
--[X]Home Supplies Production, 1 Dice (160 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Chemical Industry (8/11 Dice, 1560 R)
--[X]Timan-Pechora Fields, 1 Dice (130 R), 75%/90%
--[X]Plastic Industries(Stage 2/5), 3 Dice (630 R), 89%/94%
--[X]Expanded Ammonia Plants, 2 Dice (420 R), 59%/72%
--[X]Synthetic Rubber Plants(Stage 2/4), 2 Dice (380 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Agriculture (4/4 Dice, 450 R)
--[X]Domestic Meat Programs(Stage 4/10), 2 Dice (230 R), 2%/7%
--[X]Farmers Markets, 2 Dice (220 R), 59%/72%
-[X]Services (4/3 Dice, 695 R)
--[X]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 3/5), 3 Dice (570 R), 93%/97%
--[X]Town-Market Construction, 1 Dice (125 R), 15%/30%
-[X]Bureaucracy (6/3+3 Forced Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Prison Reform Program, 1 Dice
--[X]Increasing Domestic Innovation, 1 Dice
--[X]Domestic Production Program, 1 Dice
--[X]Force a Euro Vote, 1 Dice
--[X]Scientific Exchange Programs, 1 Dice
--[X]Reorganize a Department(Light Industry), 1 Dice

 

[Vi'Talzin]

Making plans for this becomes extremely troublesome when things like the -20 for infra and the universal +10 aren't included in the listed cost.

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I recommend using notgreat's spreadsheet, it already includes them and automatically tallies resources and dice. It also lets you know chance of completion which is quite handy when planning!

 

[Vi'Talzin]

[]Saratov Machine Building Plant: Petrochemical extraction has only gotten more complex in the last decade with simpler drilling rigs becoming both outdated and inefficient. Rather than resorting to an increase in secondary recovery techniques, deals can be made with the Americans to import both expertise and technologies for increasing oil extraction. The industry itself is considered to be secondary to direct defense applications and the current relations offer a window where some technical exchanges can be conducted. The item most of interest is the production of new generation slant drilling equipment along with expertise in its operation, as domestic production will be able to learn important lessons and develop its innovative industry in the field. (300 Resources per Dice 0/150) (-46 CI5 Electricity +2 Steel +1 Non-Ferrous +1 General Labor +1 Educated Labor) (Cost Changes)

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One thing that caught my eye this turn was this tidbit... 1972 is awfully close, and with it comes new elections. There is basically zero chance Humphrey gets re-elected, the man is nowhere near as competent as Johnson and has to deal with all the baggage of the New Deal and Civil Rights movement that is about to slam the Dems right in the face (the US has faced severe rioting this past turn). It is very likely that in 1973, the President of the United States might be someone a lot more protectionist and hostile to our interest, so I think there is a very strong case to be made on starting this project right now. Same with the []Scientific Exchange Programs. I will see if I can make a plan with it soon if I have some time.

 

[Drieder]

[X] Plan Educated Redshirts

 

[Quickshot0]

Well! This is a very good prize for going hands-off on Austria. If our loony wing had actually gotten any political influence, things would have been bad.

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It also arguably helps in that it means the Soviets might not solve all disagreements with their puppet states via tightening the leash and cracking the whip. At least not nearly openly as they did OTL, something which might help in keeping some what better relations between the various areas and some more ability to try out new ideas.

Could be interesting to poke this.

My personal view is that bulk launch methods like launch loops, rocket sleds or space elevators require such high demand for getting lots of stuff off of the Earth that we are unlikely to see enough demand for these to be viable in the next century, if ever.

There comes a point where if you need that much crud in space it is cheaper to make the babies who'll grow up to be new workers up there and build moon bases and factories to make all the stuff that doesn't absolutely have to come from Earth.

In other words, this is a science project that will probably never yield useful hardware.

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Admittedly a lot of these ideas are unlikely to go anywhere fast, though there is one bulk launch system that could be made to work in principle even in the 70s. Which would be the spacegun concept. One of the most interesting variants of that idea was to use a light gas gun suspended in the ocean, so you could afford to have a super long and straight barrel, thus allowing for larger objects and higher speeds. Obviously the high acceleration and velocity would create limitations on what one could send, but light gas guns are real and should definitely be capable of hitting very high speeds indeed, 7+ km/s is certainly in reach.

I'm not sure there are many other some what realistic ideas that could be used any time soon. But I'd have to admit I would have some interest in the chance of developing a spacegun. That certainly could have prospects on say making resupply for space stations a lot cheaper, or supply an early space industry more affordably perhaps.

I also kind of disagree with your premise it would just be cheaper to do it all in space. Considering the complexities of a lot of our technologies a link between earth bound and space industry for a long time to come is likely. So eventually there would be a need to greatly depress launch costs to help get through that bottleneck when setting up a full space industry. Else all your costs will become ridiculously high for that goal.

I want to complete nuclear engines before we go for this one.

A nuclear drive would ENORMOUSLY increase the size of the sample that could be sent back to Earth as such a mission could have a much larger return stage. Bigger samples mean more science.

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While that is true, it is conceivable the nuclear program could take 10-15 years to complete. In which case one would be looking at a potential missed opportunity cost, where one could have used the much larger Mars Lander and recovery system development to help aid in developing a better and more reliable manned Lunar lander. It would after all require developing a far more sophisticated lander and landing system capability, together with being bigger then any previous system, thus helping on getting more scale experience.

Of course this isn't necessary either, but it is something to keep mind.

On the science side... we've never actually managed to get a Mars return sample ourselves sadly, maybe next decade. And if one wanted to maintain some level of higher space enthusiasm, a Mars sample return would definitely get you a bit on the PR side. And thus potentially help contribute to some more budget space.

I want to finish playing with inflatable test articles before we fund a space station.

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Well understandable, though an argument could be made that having an early station design to test out requirements for a later larger inflatable one could make sense as well. It depends a bit on how much momentum one wants to maintain in the manned part of the space program I guess. Though admittedly the cost for the station is pretty high...

 

[MordredRaal]

[X] Plan Transportation Goes BRR

 

[MSH]

[X] Plan Infrastructure and Money

 

[polat32]

[X] Plan Supplying our Azeri Girlboss with Texan Drills, Soviet Greyhound and Quenching the Thirst of the Nation

 

[Nevis]

[X] Plan Bite The Bullet
-[X]6380/6395 Resources (15 Reserve), 41 Dice Rolled
-[X]Infrastructure (3/3 Dice, 330 R)
--[X]Central Asian High Capacity Roads, 2 Dice (220 R), 65%/77%
--[X]Development of the Volga, 1 Dice (110 R), 99%/100%
-[X]Heavy Industry (10/10 Dice, 2950 R)
--[X]Kansk-Achinsk Basin Exploitation(Stage 2/5), 1 Dice (160 R), 86%/100%
--[X]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 9 Dice (2790 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Inflatable Section Experiments, 1 Dice
--[X]Mercury Exploration Program, 1 Dice
--[X]CMEA Payloads, 1 Dice
-[X]Light Industry (6/6 Dice, 870 R)
--[X]Air Conditioner Plants(Stage 6/8), 3 Dice (450 R), 65%/75%
--[X]Second Generation Furnishings, 2 Dice (260 R), 79%/87%
--[X]Home Supplies Production, 1 Dice (160 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Chemical Industry (10/11 Dice, 1940 R)
--[X]Expanded Ammonia Plants, 2 Dice (420 R), 59%/72%
--[X]Stabilization of Agrochemicals(Stage 1/2), 2 Dice (380 R), 59%/72%
--[X]Synthetic Rubber Plants(Stage 2/4), 6 Dice (1140 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Agriculture (0/4 Dice, 0 R)
-[X]Services (3/3 Dice, 290 R)
--[X]Expanded Childcare(Stage 6/6), 2 Dice (180 R), 100%/100%
--[X]Expanding Preparation Schools, 1 Dice (110 R), 0%/5%
-[X]Bureaucracy (6/3+3 Forced Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Prison Reform Program, 1 Dice
--[X]Increasing Domestic Innovation, 1 Dice
--[X]Domestic Production Program, 1 Dice
--[X]Expanded Education, 1 Dice
--[X]Enterprise Benefits, 1 Dice
--[X]Scientific Exchange Programs, 1 Dice

I am making a callout post that you are all cowards.

 

[Crazycryodude]

I'm not sure what this reform does. Anyone understand the bureaucratese here?

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Fucking with salary raise schedules to try and get something as close to a de facto wage freeze as we can get without officially calling a legal wage freeze (again).

"Reducing same-job cost increase maximums can allow current growth in labor costs to be slowed and improve the dynamism of labor by encouraging varied employment" translates roughly to "reducing possible raises will keep costs down and ensure only the most desperate workers (who will take any shit we give them out of necessity) stay in low wage jobs"

 

[VonVonson]

Imo we should get started on atommash this turn. We will always need more power and being able to free ourselves from the coal treadmill will make providing it much easier. Otherwise taking advantage of that tooling we built and chasing some profit making projects while we pick at ESA will leave us better able to actually use the extra dice we'd get

[X] Plan Transportation Goes BRR
[X] Plan Infrastructure and Money
[X] Plan Bite The Bullet

 

[Kirai]

[X] Plan I can quit Infra Anytime I Want
-[X]6280/6395 Resources (115 Reserve), 45 Dice Rolled
-[X]Infrastructure (7/3 Dice, 900 R)
--[X]Central Asian High Capacity Roads, 2 Dice (220 R), 65%/77%
--[X]Water Distribution Systems(Stage 7/10), 2 Dice (280 R), 60%/72%
--[X]Civilian Airports(Stage 3/5), 1 Dice (100 R), 40%/55%
--[X]Development of the Volga, 1 Dice (110 R), 99%/100%
--[X]ESA, 1 Dice (190 R), 0%/0%
-[X]Heavy Industry (8/10 Dice, 1830 R)
--[X]Kursk Steel Mills(Stage 1/2), 3 Dice (630 R), 89%/94%
--[X]Kansk-Achinsk Basin Exploitation(Stage 2/5), 2 Dice (320 R), 100%/100%
--[X]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 2 Dice (620 R), 0%/0%
--[X]ZIL Automotive Plant Modernization, 1 Dice (260 R), 0%/0%
-[X]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Inflatable Section Experiments, 1 Dice
--[X]Mercury Exploration Program, 1 Dice
--[X]CMEA Payloads, 1 Dice
-[X]Light Industry (6/6 Dice, 870 R)
--[X]Air Conditioner Plants(Stage 6/8), 3 Dice (450 R), 65%/75%
--[X]Second Generation Furnishings, 2 Dice (260 R), 79%/87%
--[X]Home Supplies Production, 1 Dice (160 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Chemical Industry (9/11 Dice, 1730 R)
--[X]Timan-Pechora Fields, 1 Dice (130 R), 75%/90%
--[X]Plastic Industries(Stage 2/5), 2 Dice (420 R), 36%/50%
--[X]Expanded Ammonia Plants, 2 Dice (420 R), 59%/72%
--[X]Stabilization of Agrochemicals(Stage 1/2), 2 Dice (380 R), 59%/72%
--[X]Synthetic Rubber Plants(Stage 2/4), 2 Dice (380 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Agriculture (4/4 Dice, 480 R)
--[X]Farmers Markets, 2 Dice (220 R), 59%/72%
--[X]Water Management Programs, 2 Dice (260 R), 0%/0%
-[X]Services (3/3 Dice, 470 R)
--[X]Expanded Childcare(Stage 6/6), 1 Dice (90 R), 52%/67%
--[X]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 3/5), 2 Dice (380 R), 65%/77%
-[X]Bureaucracy (6/3+3 Forced Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Prison Reform Program, 1 Dice
--[X]Increasing Domestic Innovation, 1 Dice
--[X]Domestic Production Program, 1 Dice
--[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Transport Enterprises), 1 Dice
--[X]Immigration Reforms, 1 Dice
--[X]Scientific Exchange Programs, 1 Dice

[X] Plan Redshirt
Approval voting plan redshirt. It does mostly what I want, albeit not doing air conditioning smh.

 

[SirKana]

How did the electricity CI work again? I recall it had something to do with exports but can't find a definition.

 

[Crazycryodude]

How did the electricity CI work again? I recall it had something to do with exports but can't find a definition.

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It's a legacy statistical feature from when all indicators were tracked as material balances like electricity is, the Confidence Interval (CI) indicates that we are 95% sure the actual value is somewhere +/- that amount around the central value. So 272 CI18 translates to there being a 95% chance that our actual electricity value is between 254 and 290.