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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition

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The reason to do AT guns is so that we can have better tank guns ready to go when we roll out the T-34, not because our current ones are inadequate for anything the Germans had as of June 1941 IOTL.

But better divisional guns is kind of a big deal for pretty much the whole army and we'll need to make a lot more of them, so if we can only do one we should do that first.
 
The 45mm we already have is entirely capable of chewing up 3's and won't start having major trouble with the 4's until the second year of the war, an AT gun upgrade isn't super pressing. Especially since divisional guns double as AT guns, and a medium caliber dual purpose AT/direct fire infantry support gun is exactly what you want in a tank gun so if divisional guns go well that's our tank gun problem solved.
 
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[ ] Plan The Great Trials with Anti-tank
Infrastructure 8 Dice
-[ ] Create Bus Lines, 1 Infra Dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Angara River Systems, 7 Infra Dice (105 Resources)
Heavy Industry 12 Dice
-[ ] Magnitogorsk Planned City(Stage 5), 11 HI Dice (220 Resources)
-[ ] Power Production Campaigns(Stage 3), 1 HI Dice (20 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry 6 Dice
-[ ] Baku Oil Refineries, 4 LCI Dice (60 Resources)
-[ ] Expanded Radio Plants Further, 2 LCI Dice (60 Resources)
Agriculture 4 Dice
-[ ] New Socialist Towns(Stage 5), 2 Agriculture Dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Expand Factory Farms, 2 Agriculture Dice (30 Resources)
Services 4 Dice
-[ ] Technical Colleges, 4 Services Dice (40 Resources)
Military 8 Dice (+4 Free Dice)
-[ ] Trial New Long-Range Guns, 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New Heavy AA Guns, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New AT Guns, 30 resources, two die
-[ ] Trial New Interceptor(Polikarpov), 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New 45 Ton Tank, 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New Level Bombers, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New Sub-Machine Guns, 1 Military Dice (10 Resources)
-[ ] Perm Plant Expansion, 2 Free Dice (40 Resources)
-[ ] Gorky Artillery Plant, 2 Free Dice (50 Resources)
Bureaucracy 2 Dice
-[ ] Normalize Eastern European Trade, 2 Bureaucracy Dice

The only difference in the plan is that I am doing Anti-Tank instead of Divisional Guns. Doing this early also means, we can build up a good stockpile of guns that may last the entire war instead of becoming less effective half way through.
 
[ ] Plan Amended Push
Infrastructure 8 Dice
-[ ] Angara River Systems, 7 Infra Dice (105 Resources)
-[ ] Regional Interlinked Grids (Siberia), 1 Infra Dice (15 Resources)
Heavy Industry 12 Dice (+2 Free Dice)
-[ ] Magnitogorsk Planned City(Stage 5), 12 HI Dice + 1 Free Die (260 Resources)
-[ ] Power Production Campaigns(Stage 3), 1 Free Die (20 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry 6 Dice
-[ ] Baku Oil Refineries, 4 LCI Dice (60 Resources)
-[ ] Expanded Radio Plants Further, 2 LCI Dice (60 Resources)
Agriculture 4 Dice
-[ ] New Socialist Towns(Stage 5), 2 Agriculture Dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Expand Factory Farms, 2 Agriculture Dice (30 Resources)
Services 4 Dice
-[ ] Technical Colleges, 4 Services Dice (40 Resources)
Military 8 Dice + 2 Free Dice
-[ ] Trial New Long-Range Guns, 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New AT Guns, 1 Military Dice (15 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New Light AA Guns, 1 Military Dice (15 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New Heavy AA Guns, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New Divisional Guns, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New 45 Ton Tank, 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[ ] Trial New Level Bombers, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Perm Plant Expansion, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Gorky Artillery Plant, 2 Free Dice (50 Resources)
Bureaucracy 2 Dice
-[ ] Normalize Eastern European Trade, 2 Bureaucracy Dice

Resources Used: 820
Resources Remaining: 55

Amended the plan a bit. Still has a good chance to finish Magnitogorsk this turn, dice freed went into light AA trial (something RKKA lacked and lamented OTL) and a bit of progress on coal, as we'll need a lot of it.

On the ongoing AT guns vs divisional guns debate... Divisional are 152mm, yes?
Then I'd ask why no-one considers axing long-range guns in favor of those discussed.
These heavy guns are very heavy hard to maneuver, culminating in things like Dora. Not exactly something we need when we have got good enough CAS plane to do their job - and production of these should take care of our M-63 engine reserve, so going for Polikarpov's ersatz while we should get an option to do a proper fighter in a turn or two seems unnecessary for me.
 
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Our pre-war gun is going obsolete as the war evolves pretty much no matter what, all our pre-war equipment is. Worrying about 1943 when we haven't even survived 1941 yet is getting super far ahead of ourselves imo
 
Dwergar said:
and a bit of progress on coal, as we'll need a lot of it.
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A bit of extra progress on coal is not worth six months of additional research progress on a design Trial.

It'd be much better spent being placed on a trial for something like a new fighter. Our pilots in Spain have been practically begging us to get one ASAP.
 
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Why 7 dice on Angara instead of 6 or lower?

Also, yeah we need the new plane. It can probably replace new AT guns, those don't seem like a HUGE priority to me.
 
Chimeraguard said:
A bit of extra progress on coal is not worth six months of additional research progress on a design Trial.

It'd be much better spent being placed on a trial for something like a new fighter. Our pilots in Spain have been practically begging us to get one.
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It wouldn't arrive in big numbers to Spain, and it would be a marginal ersatz no matter what we're going to do - what with it using an engine that would likely go out of production soonish.
AND we have a CAS plane in service which should utilize these reserves of M-63 engines.

I'd prefer to wait half a year, but get a better fighter then, with a massively more powerful engine. And it's explicitly acknowledged that there are such fighters in the works, and the only reason to go for Polikarpov's is that it is ready right now.
As we're not going to get Barbarossed next turn, I don't think we need to haste so much.
 
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Dwergar said:
It wouldn't arrive in big numbers to Spain, and it would be a marginal ersatz no matter what we're going to do - what with it using an engine that would likely go out of production soonish.
AND we have a CAS plane in service which should utilize these reserves of M-63 engines.

I'd prefer to wait half a year, but get a better fighter then, with a massively more powerful engine.
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Then put the coal die on another military trial. Any other military trial. The extra R&D time another early trial gives us is worth far more than a bit more progress on coal mining that doesn't actually increase our surplus there until it's close to done.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Statistical needs to be done ASAP though, as it's benefit accrues over time.
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For us to reap the benefits of statistics we need to survive GPW first (and preferably don't lose so much shit as USSR did in OTL). Going all-in on foreign trade we get more immediate benefits meaning more shit to fight Nazis with, and as a side effects we get better relations with everyone we want to sway into opposing Nazis.

If we get to the point where Germany has to also conquer (for example) Hungary, Romania, Sweden and Spain to secure their rear against anyone who might want to stab them in the back once they get Barbarossa going... That's another year of campaigns that they have to do before having a go at us. Another year we would be able to spend building RKKA into Channel-reaching steamroller.
 
[x] Plan The Great Trials with Anti-tank
Infrastructure 8 Dice
-[x] Create Bus Lines, 3 Infra Dice (60 Resources)
-[x]Buildup of Rail Stock (Diesel, Western Regions) , 5 Infra Dice (75 Resources)
Heavy Industry 12 Dice
-[x] Magnitogorsk Planned City(Stage 5), 11 HI Dice (220 Resources)
-[x] Power Production Campaigns(Stage 3), 1 HI Dice (20 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry 6 Dice
-[x] Baku Oil Refineries, 4 LCI Dice (60 Resources)
-[x] Expanded Radio Plants Further, 2 LCI Dice (60 Resources)
Agriculture 4 Dice
-[x] New Socialist Towns(Stage 5), 2 Agriculture Dice (20 Resources)
-[x] Expand Factory Farms, 2 Agriculture Dice (30 Resources)
Services 4 Dice
-[x] Technical Colleges, 4 Services Dice (40 Resources)
Military 8 Dice (+4 Free Dice)
-[x] Trial New Long-Range Guns, 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[x] Trial New Heavy AA Guns, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[x] Trial New AT Guns, 30 resources, two die
-[x] Trial New Interceptor(Polikarpov), 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[x] Trial New 45 Ton Tank, 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[x] Trial New Level Bombers, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[x] Trial New Sub-Machine Guns, 1 Military Dice (10 Resources)
-[x] Perm Plant Expansion, 2 Free Dice (40 Resources)
-[x] Gorky Artillery Plant, 2 Free Dice (50 Resources)
Bureaucracy 2 Dice
-[x] Normalize Eastern European Trade, 2 Bureaucracy Dice
[X] Plan Amended Push

I think the moratorium is over?
 
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I wonder if it would better to double up on all the military trials, because with a single dice 30% of it will end up rushed.
 
[X] Plan Amended Push
Infrastructure 8 Dice
-[X] Angara River Systems, 7 Infra Dice (105 Resources)
-[X] Regional Interlinked Grids (Siberia), 1 Infra Dice (15 Resources)
Heavy Industry 12 Dice (+2 Free Dice)
-[X] Magnitogorsk Planned City(Stage 5), 12 HI Dice + 1 Free Die (260 Resources)
-[X] Power Production Campaigns(Stage 3), 1 Free Die (20 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry 6 Dice
-[X] Baku Oil Refineries, 4 LCI Dice (60 Resources)
-[X] Expanded Radio Plants Further, 2 LCI Dice (60 Resources)
Agriculture 4 Dice
-[X] New Socialist Towns(Stage 5), 2 Agriculture Dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Expand Factory Farms, 2 Agriculture Dice (30 Resources)
Services 4 Dice
-[X] Technical Colleges, 4 Services Dice (40 Resources)
Military 8 Dice + 2 Free Dice
-[X] Trial New Long-Range Guns, 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[X] Trial New AT Guns, 1 Military Dice (15 Resources)
-[X] Trial New Light AA Guns, 1 Military Dice (15 Resources)
-[X] Trial New Heavy AA Guns, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Trial New Divisional Guns, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Trial New 45 Ton Tank, 1 Military Dice (25 Resources)
-[X] Trial New Level Bombers, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Perm Plant Expansion, 1 Military Dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Gorky Artillery Plant, 2 Free Dice (50 Resources)
Bureaucracy 2 Dice
-[X] Normalize Eastern European Trade, 2 Bureaucracy Dice

Resources Used: 820
Resources Remaining: 55
 
[X] Plan Even Greater Trials

I slightly prefer this plan.
10ebbor10 said:
I wonder if it would better to double up on all the military trials, because with a single dice 30% of it will end up rushed.
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It also means cutting our R&D progress in literal half. Maybe when we have a lower amount of research to do we can afford it, but right now?

Plus, our stuff doesn't have to be great, just serviceable.
 
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