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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Takesis said:
Was rereading, and as highlighted, Valaena has a baby brother, that's why Monford was ok with us taking her. The rumour mill that this infant was bethrothed to Myrcella is what caused us to reach out to Lord Velaryon in the first place.
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I actually checked this. In canon (301), Monford's heir, Montarys, was six years old. Which means he's going to be born soon, but isn't alive yet seeing as the date is (293). Could you quote the relevant text for me that says he has a son? Thank you.
 
tarrangar said:
Not actively helping souls leave isn't the same as forcing them to stay, if the ones in charge are preventing resurrection spells from working it's slavery, if they are just not resurrecting people themselves, then that's simply the equivalent of not paying for your citizens to immigrate away.

It's the difference between the government not paying for a boat ticket, if you want to emigrate from an island nation, and the government stationing armed patrol boats to prevent you from leaving, them not giving you a ticket is not making you a slave or Serf, them stationing armed patrol boats is, and of course if they put you in chains and force you to work for them, then that's not just Serfdom but slavery.

Which mean the soul trade is just selling body-less slaves, but afterlives aren't inherently slavery, although all the Fiendish afterlives and quite a few others, are the afterlife equivalent of slaver states.
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There is one problem with that hypothesis. Hell is a Prison! Not a Free Nation! Criminals dont have the right to leave their cells whenever they feel like it. Everyone wants out.

Heaven let's people who want to leave, leave. But for those in the Evil after lives I always fluffed it as those who can fight or sneak their way out or cut a deal to send more souls down get out. One is free choice the other is just a Monsters cutting a deal with bigger Monsters to cause more pain.
 
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LonelyWolf999 said:
I actually checked this. In canon (301), Monford's heir, Montarys, was six years old. Which means he's going to be born soon, but isn't alive yet seeing as the date is (293). Could you quote the relevant text for me that says he has a son? Thank you.
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The child he had last year is little Montarys, yes.

Edit:

As for any possible discrepancy due to timelines, remember this isn't canon. Butterflies abound.
 
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Sep 4, 2018 at 6:00 AM, finished with 223209 posts and 15 votes.
  • [X] Plan "Having your cake and eating it, too" Dragon Edition
    -[X] "Do not attempt to play me for a fool, Yrten Sword-Sunder. Show me the respect I deserve and I shall reciprocate in full. Now what is your true goal in taking a prize of such value that doing so will forever after earn you the personal ire of the Brazen Throne?"
    --[X] Attempt to learn what, if anything beyond mere greed, motivates Yrten to attack the treasure ship.
    -[X] If Yrten's response is satisfactory, propose a counter-offer. If not, depart and begin hunting down the Efreeti military convoys.
    --[X] We will give Yrten a Sending Stone with an Arcane Mark on it. While he and his crew seek out the treasure ship, we will hunt our own prey. When he is ready to attack the treasure ship, Yrten will use the Sending Stone to send us a message and we will Teleport to his location, along with our minions.
    ---[X] Loot will be split evenly between him and his crew and us, though we would like the opportunity to purchase some part of his share should we find it interesting. The same offer is available to Yrten if he finds something interesting among what we take.
    -[X] We will set out to raid the military supply convoy which is on its way to aid the Efreeti invading the Plane of Earth and fighting the Shaitan. If we have time afterward before Yrten contacts us, we will seek out the second convoy supplying the salamanders.
    -[X] Viserys learns Avasculate from his upgraded Expanded Arcana feat.
    [X] Plasn As Goldfish, But With Avasculate
    -[X] The same basic plan as Goldfish, but Viserys learns Avasculate
    [X] Plasn As Goldfish, But With Avasculate
    -[X] The same basic plan as Goldfish, but Viserys learns Avasculate
    -[X] Standing Order: Block all attacks with Dreamcasting: Wings of Cover if possible
    -[X] Dreamcasting: Displacement, keep distance
    -[X] Dremcasting: Sonorous Hum, keep distance
    -[X] Dreamcasting: Major Image, keep distance and keep the Image merged with yourself
    -[X] Dreamcasting: Resilent Sphere on self, play the scared mortal
    -[X] Dreamcasting: Greater Invisibility, the Major Image makes it seem that you are still there
    -[X] Dreamcasting: Assay Spell Resistance, meanwhile taunt him to unload his Breath Weapon onto the Sphere
    -[X] Dreamcasting: Dimension Door, leave the Major Image behind and hide outside of Blindsight range
    -[X] Dreamcasting: Spectral Hand
    -[X] Dreamcasting: Shivering Touch, deliverd by Spectral Hand
    -[X] Repeat Shivering Touch until it drops. Recast Spectral Hand if necessary.
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Abhishek M said:
There is one problem with that hypothesis. Hell is a Prison! Not a Free Nation! Criminals dont have the right to leave their cells whenever they feel like it. Everyone wants out.

Heaven let's people who want to leave, leave. But for those in the Evil after lives I always fluffed it as those who can fight or sneak their way out or cut a deal to send more souls down get out. One is free choice the other is just a Monsters cutting a deal with bigger Monsters to cause more pain.
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Yeah but Hell has no ability to get out once you have served your sentence, you are tortured forever, and it is actively corrupt trying to entice more people into committing crimes to get more funding, and imprisoning innocents whenever it can get away with it.

If we take over hell would be a prison meant to secure and rehabilitate the prisoners, and the truly irredeemable ones would be fed to Yss, but as it is now, Hell is not a prison it's a slaver nation, the majority of slaves are just criminals, sentenced to slavery in Hell for their crimes.
 
The whole DnD cosmology is an Existential Horror with no escape for anyone except those lucky few who are high level PC's or are friends of one.

The mere existance of a verifiable Hell should be enough to make any populace which knows about it to despair and desperetly try to live some sort of 'objectively Good' life to avoid the worst prize and at least have a boring afterlife in heaven...

The more educated urban core and those civilians who are at the vanguard of our magitek revolution should, on the other hand, be screaming right now for a metaphysical Manhattan Project to redirect the flow of souls and end the nightmare inducing horror.
 
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bigbow said:
The whole DnD cosmology is an Existential Horror with no escape for anyone except those lucky few who are high level PC's or are friends of one.

The mere existance of a verifiable Hell should be enough to make any populace which knows about it to despair and desperetly try to live some sort of 'objectively Good' life to avoid the worst prize and at least have a boring afterlife in heaven...

The more educated urban core and those civilians who are at the vanguard of our magitek revolution should, on the other hand, be screaming right now for a metaphysical Manhattan Project to redirect the flow of souls and end the nightmare inducing horror.
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Some people actually pact their way into the relatively higher echelons of Baator. They spend lees time as Lemures and more as other lesser Baatezu.

Can't really compete against that if that is what they chose
 
Azel said:
I'm not writing a new Pact Primordial just because some people here are way too hung up on that slavery nonsense.
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I am. It goes like Trump's foreign policy: I'M A DRAGON, BITCH.

Analysis by skilled legal scholars: the Imperial administration claims jurisdiction over the souls of the dead. All serious complains are to be directed to the Imperial Companions. Spurious complaints can go directly to the "Larder" department, and can if needed appeal to R&D or the Army's life-fire training organisation administrative section.
 
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Tomcost said:
Some people actually pact their way into the relatively higher echelons of Baator. They spend lees time as Lemures and more as other lesser Baatezu.

Can't really compete against that if that is what they chose
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DP always hammers how deeply miserable they are though, beyond the pride and the power. Its a wretched existance.

By the way I'm not delving into the slavery debate. I'm justt saying that the whole system (river of souls, hell, celestia, everything) is a Holocaust that should be replaced with something sensible.
 
bigbow said:
DP always hammers how deeply miserable they are though, beyond the pride and the power. Its a wretched existance.

By the way I'm not delving into the slavery debate. I'm justt saying that the whole system (river of souls, hell, celestia, everything) is a Holocaust that should be replaced with something sensible.
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Yet for many is an existance that they chose.

We need a remedy for mortal stupidity. Not a whole different system
 
Just remember—if you guys want the slightest chance in hell of rewriting reality to that extent, then you'll need to side with me when the time comes to campaign for epic levels.
 
It's 11:10 AM here and I haven't got my morning update.

I'm grumpy, and I don't wanna take a nap.

*grumbles, grabs a gun and goes off to rescue DP from the nazi zombie terrorist alliance*
 
Azel said:
I'm not writing a new Pact Primordial just because some people here are way too hung up on that slavery nonsense.
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When we conquer the Abyss the Pact Primordial will be obsolete anyway, it's purpose was to effectively combat the Abyss, with no Abyss to combat it become outdated, and it's only when we have accomplished that, that soul slavery will be first on the list.
 
Duesal said:
Just remember—if you guys want the slightest chance in hell of rewriting reality to that extent, then you'll need to side with me when the time comes to campaign for epic levels.
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I agree here. Not nessesarily about rewriting reality, but all change comes from power and we need to hit harder and be able to take more to deal with the pure amount of antipathy from very powerful beings we'll have directed towards us from our actions.
 
The Abyss is a wonderful place to farm for loot and sacrifices.

I don't even care if you guys try to get rid of it. I'll just be collecting stuff for the Larder on the side while you waste time on that impossible task.
 
It can certainly be quarentened at least. Or regularly purged with magitek thermonuclear bombs.

You just have to get creative, magic is bullshit like that. Also needs epic levels, but that's a given for any sort of transplanar tampering.
 
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