A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

[Sqweaktoy]

Is your primary issue with the goal of the plan being vague, or is it with the lack of cohesion among the playerbase?

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My primary issue is the (again, almost certainly unintentional) 'sneaking' in of an item that was recently voted against. Azel has outlined quite well all the issues that can lead to, even if I don't 100% agree with his assessment of the likelihood of those issues, better safe than sorry.
I am frustrated with the 'keep putting it into votes until one wins' behavior personally, but I like everyone here enough to assume good faith.

 

[TotallyNotEvil]

[X] Plan TNE
-[X] Stranger Danger
--[X] Offer to let him study a unique shadow you've caught, as long as he shares the results of course.
-[x] Meraxes
--[X] Have some small-talk with the High Priest about his faith and it's relation to other beliefs, like the Old Gods or Burny. Then talk with Meraxas directly about the vision you had about the meeting of the 14 and their plans.


In other news, my Numerical Analysis professor apparently has a great class plan, and seems like a really nice guy... too bad I couldn't hear a word of it in a huge packed auditorium, and barely make out what was projected on the screen way down bellow.

Because his entire course runs on Python, and the classroom runs on paper and pen.

Yay for two hours of squinting at a projected screen while he fiddles with his computer.

Quality education isn't a matter of sufficiently knowlegeable professors, it's a matter of sheer infrastructure.

I can see that it essentially be a waste of my time attending the rest of it, but I gotta waste it anyway.

 

[AntaeusTheGiant]

[x] abstain

I don't have very strong opinions on this issue, so I'll save up all my salt for the issue I'm expecting to loose in a few days.

 

[Deliste]

2200 IM each for constant Circle Dance, Lay of the Land, Locate Creature, and Locate Object.

Our current Wayfinder is missing Lay of the Land from its description, but we definitely paid for it in both crafting materials and crafting time.

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Carrion Compass and a few others are worth adding, especially the low level No SR No Save detections.

 

[egoo]

too bad I couldn't hear a word of it in a huge packed auditorium, and barely make out what was projected on the screen way down bellow.

Because his entire course runs on Python, and the classroom runs on paper and pen.

Yay for two hours of squinting at a projected screen while he fiddles with his computer.

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...have you tried bringing this problem up with the professor?

Erm.
Of course, universities in countries other than Russia run on entirely different principles, that much I freely admit...

But as someone who studies to be a teacher, this "make sure that every student can hear/see the study material, whether they want to is optional" is constantly told us to be one of the cornerstones of, you know, teaching people something :/

Is it different in your country?

*genuinely has no idea if professors in universities of other countries behave differently on the matter*

 

[TotallyNotEvil]

...have you tried bringing this problem up with the professor?

Erm.
Of course, universities in countries other than Russia run on entirely different principles, that much I freely admit...

But as someone who studies to be a teacher, this "make sure that every student can hear/see the study material, whether they want to is optional" is constantly told us to be one of the cornerstones of, you know, teaching people something :/

Is it different in your country?

*genuinely has no idea if professors in universities of other countries behave differently on the matter*

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As he is young, I suppose I could try.

But what will he do? Wish us all computers?

I'm already dreading how the actual tests will be. My introductory Programming course had us hand-write code on tests.

One of the most veteran professors was confiding in us last semester, he pities the students who will have to go to Uni from these next few years forward, because there's a strong tendency in bigger and bigger classes, taught in huge auditoriums, and that's shit.

But it's cheap, and allows for the admnistration to proudly proclaim how many new spots they've opened, and how their term was killing it.

We have basic subjects, such as Calculus I, with a 30% pass rate. On an Uni like mine, you are failing, what, a thousand and a half people every semester? And usually on something that will lock up their entire curriculum.

And it's just not that hard.

The obvious conclusion is that there's something deeply wrong in how we teach here, especially on hard sciences.

Richard fucking Feynman, one of the most acclaimed phyisics teachers of all time, famously said that "no one learns a thing in this place" after he spent a semester or two as guest lecturer in one of the most well regarded Unis at the time.

We are essentially the Adeptus Mechanicus when it comes to teaching.

 

[spiritualatheist]

I'd like to point out to those relying on divination to check the trustworthiness of the necromancer that Zherys can cast 8th level spells, and likely knows mindblank. He might not, but I think that the possibility is enough to make relying on our divination in this case a bad idea.

 

[Azel]

Oh, but it doesn't have to be a deal. Going into a shop and seeing what is in offer is something minor. We could still poke this guy, see what does he have to offer, say what we can offer, without explicitly commiting to anything, and that is.

See, I get what you are saying. But you are also forcing the situation into discussing a retcon or making a deal, and that is not the case. It is not binary.

I'm not so interested in anything as to make more salt flow here, but tell me: does asking first, "browsing his wares", still count as being forced into a deal?

I think that we could simply handwave these incidents that are not so deeply thought as what they are. Yes, we had a desire to poke this guy and see what he was doing, and what we can get out of him. Even with no predetermined goal. If we don't find anything in specific, then we simply leave after pleasantries with no damage done to us whatsoever.

DP won't force us into anything. And while @Goldfish might want to avoid social awkwardness by making a deal, the thing is that we don't need to do so to avoid being awkward. We had made deals with him before, and we had also rejected deals with him. There is already a commercial relationship with him, so to speak.

Does it actually hurt us to ask? We can always say no.

And the intention of this is just to calm things down. I think that we are going too far in the extremes and the decision is becoming binary, while it doesn't have to be like that. And it only produces more salt.

Now, most of this problem can actually be solved by format. DP wrote, in the update, that we would offer lore to the necromancer. Had he structured the question as "Do you make a deal with the necromancer?" then we wouldn't be having aproblem with this. We would be simply saying no, and that's it.

EDIT: Azel did tone it down already, I arrived late.

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Yeah, that's the thing. I don't want a ret-con.

I want to think "On a second thought, this is a bad idea. Let's make this a polite social call and just be on my way."

That's it. Just Viserys changing his mind like a normal person and going home.

See, that's my problem with our supposed alliance with Zherys.

It seems we will never be able to trust him

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Well, I don't want to give him the full benefits package until he publicly bent the knee. We've fulfilled our part of the bargain and I'm against giving him any freebies until he fulfilled his side.

We just have to wait a bit and let these matters settle in instead of bulldozing ahead because of impatience.

My primary issue is the (again, almost certainly unintentional) 'sneaking' in of an item that was recently voted against. Azel has outlined quite well all the issues that can lead to, even if I don't 100% agree with his assessment of the likelihood of those issues, better safe than sorry.
I am frustrated with the 'keep putting it into votes until one wins' behavior personally, but I like everyone here enough to assume good faith.

Click to shrink...

The thing is that good or bad faith have nothing to do with it. I've seen multiple times how environments detoriated into toxic quagmires. Not because someone tried to make that happen, but simply because no one spoke out against the problematic things until it was too late.

I know that neither @Goldfish nor @egoo are doing this with malicious intent, but their positions and behaviour is creating fertile ground for toxicity in the future.

Which is why I spoke out against aimless and meandering meeting sections in Braavos already. But now we are here again, so I have to take off the velvet glove and must assume the worst or people will not realise the implications of their actions.

 

[Duesal]

Carrion Compass and a few others are worth adding, especially the low level No SR No Save detections.

Click to shrink...

Not really, given the already large amount of time that would have to be sacrificed for even one. That's a full 11 days we're looking at to make a 2200 IM Wayfinder.

 

[TotallyNotEvil]

I want to think "On a second thought, this is a bad idea. Let's make this a polite social call and just be on my way."

That's it. Just Viserys changing his mind like a normal person and going home.

Click to shrink...

Put it like that, and I don't mind it either.

 

[Sqweaktoy]

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't want a ret-con.

I want to think "On a second thought, this is a bad idea. Let's make this a polite social call and just be on my way."

That's it. Just Viserys changing his mind like a normal person and going home.


Well, I don't want to give him the full benefits package until he publicly bent the knee. We've fulfilled our part of the bargain and I'm against giving him any freebies until he fulfilled his side.

We just have to wait a bit and let these matters settle in instead of bulldozing ahead because of impatience.

The thing is that good or bad faith have nothing to do with it. I've seen multiple times how environments detoriated into toxic quagmires. Not because someone tried to make that happen, but simply because no one spoke out against the problematic things until it was too late.

I know that neither @Goldfish nor @egoo are doing this with malicious intent, but their positions and behaviour is creating fertile ground for toxicity in the future.

Which is why I spoke out against aimless and meandering meeting sections in Braavos already. But now we are here again, so I have to take off the velvet glove and must assume the worst or people will not realise the implications of their actions.

Click to shrink...

I totally agree that it's better to handle this now for very similar reasons, like I said earlier I'm more concerned about unintentional negative behavior, but that doesn't make the behaviour itself better.
I keep mentioning that i dont think it was on purpose because there was a push back against handling this the correct way due to the impression that people were being accused of outright manipulating the thread maliciously, just trying to foster a calmer atmosphere.

 

[spiritualatheist]

On something completely different, did we ever try using the identification ritual on the blood chest? Or was it just assumed that it wouldn't work? Also, can Dany take a round out of her day sometime this month and just analyze dweomer all the curiosities we have?

I don't think we have a Ruby lens, but she can get access to it as a spell-lkke ability through one of the psychic creature templates.

 

[nixter]

[X] Azel

 

[Duesal]

On something completely different, did we ever try using the identification ritual on the blood chest? Or was it just assumed that it wouldn't work? Also, can Dany take a round out of her day sometime this month and just analyze dweomer all the curiosities we have?

I don't think we have a Ruby lens, but she can get access to it as a spell-lkke ability through one of the psychic creature templates.

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We tried, but it didn't work. We have to study it the hard way.

I'm really not sure why a Mimic of all things is so hard to figure out.

 

[Azel]

Put it like that, and I don't mind it either.

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It's the gist of my vote, but I can make it more explicit.

[X] Plan Getting On With It
-[X] Necromancer
--[X] On a second thought, this is a bad idea. Let's make this a polite social call and just be on our way.
--[X] Have some small-talk with the Necromancer about magical research, then thank him for his time and guestfriendship before being on your way.
-[X] Have some small-talk with the High Priest about his faith and it's relation to other beliefs, like the Old Gods or Burny. Then talk with Meraxas directly about the vision you had about the meeting of the 14 and their plans.


As for your university troubles, I can assure you that it's not any different over here.

Even the whole "writing code with pencil and paper". In a truly awe inspiring case if Stockholm Syndrome, people are even extolling the virtue of doing it that way.

But the field of computer science is fundamentally broken anyway, so I can't really say this isn't par for the course.

 

[spiritualatheist]

We tried, but it didn't work. We have to study it the hard way.

I'm really not sure why a Mimic of all things is so hard to figure out.

Click to shrink...

Given the how DP likes to use fluff, I feel like AD has a pretty high likelihood of working, especially as it is supposed to work on everything except artifacts. If the spell fails, the the blood chest is an artifact, and we can use legend lore to help with research. If it succeeds, we are done.

If it has a built in magic aura effect, that allows a will save, so have Dany use moment of prescience. Do the same thing with the staff.

 

[Duesal]

"If we kill it, can I get to make armor out of its hide?" the swordsman asked. He did not lack for nerve at least.

"Only if you're the one that kills it," young Maelor replied in like tone.

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I wonder if we need to sit down with these two and explain who's first in line for the dragonhide armor and why. Bronn has an enchanted Reinforced Segmented Mithral Breastplate (+1), he's not getting an upgrade from that for a while for good reason. Maelor, maybe. I'm not sure. But the druids and such would still be first in line for this.

In any case, finally. Dragons to slay! I hope they contact us with news that they have a trophy for us. It will make a fine prize for the collection.

 

[Deliste]

We're getting a lot of blind vote points these days, "What do you offer the Necromancer?" What does he offer us? All we know is he studies Necromancy but we're supposed to lay it all out on the table?

 

[Trickster314]

As he is young, I suppose I could try.

But what will he do? Wish us all computers?

I'm already dreading how the actual tests will be. My introductory Programming course had us hand-write code on tests.

One of the most veteran professors was confiding in us last semester, he pities the students who will have to go to Uni from these next few years forward, because there's a strong tendency in bigger and bigger classes, taught in huge auditoriums, and that's shit.

But it's cheap, and allows for the admnistration to proudly proclaim how many new spots they've opened, and how their term was killing it.

We have basic subjects, such as Calculus I, with a 30% pass rate. On an Uni like mine, you are failing, what, a thousand and a half people every semester? And usually on something that will lock up their entire curriculum.

And it's just not that hard.

The obvious conclusion is that there's something deeply wrong in how we teach here, especially on hard sciences.

Richard fucking Feynman, one of the most acclaimed phyisics teachers of all time, famously said that "no one learns a thing in this place" after he spent a semester or two as guest lecturer in one of the most well regarded Unis at the time.

We are essentially the Adeptus Mechanicus when it comes to teaching.

Click to shrink...

Could you guys bring your own laptops to follow along? I mean in my classes its just a sea of MacBooks with like 20% of people fucking around on the internet at any given time.

 

[Deliste]

Not really, given the already large amount of time that would have to be sacrificed for even one. That's a full 11 days we're looking at to make a 2200 IM Wayfinder.

Click to shrink...

We can just have Naria add the low level stuff after the high level effects were already made, take half as long and her time is less valuable.

 

[Azel]

We're getting a lot of blind vote points these days, "What do you offer the Necromancer?" What does he offer us? All we know is he studies Necromancy but we're supposed to lay it all out on the table?

Click to shrink...

It's always been like that. If we don't come in with a pre-made offer or goal, we have to make one after the initial update.

 

[Sarasin]

I don't see the problem with never being able to fully trust Zherys honestly. As we expand our rule we will inevitably have large amounts of people who we allow to rule this or that area in our name anyway and probably most of them won't be fully trust worthy. We already have started down this road with Tolos. Zherys is clearly very competent and will be an effective vassal, much better than the investible idiots in Westeros surely. As long as he publicly bends the knee to us and does not try to subvert out interests I'm totally fine with him honestly.

 

[Trickster314]

[X] Azel

 

[Deliste]

It's always been like that. If we don't come in with a pre-made offer or goal, we have to make one after the initial update.

Click to shrink...

No, not really. [] Write In, is different to it being immediately presented as a blind offer of lore etc, that narrows perspective and encourages blind bandwagons IMO.

I imagine it's a result of DP trying to appease people complaining about things dragging out, I never had a problem with that though

 

[Deliste]

To all the munchkins: don't you want the Shadow Creature Template on our Inquisition War Dogs, for example? It increases movement speed by 50%. It gives wonderful abilities, and we can even choose from them!

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I want it on Plant Creature Darkenbeasts.