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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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MTB said:
wtf" levels describing the exclusivity of the library.
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We have plans at making both a public library, and a dedicated book-keeping place.

It's just that we don't have time to build either at the moment.

And it is not like they were very public back in keep either :/
 
@MTB, exactly, Lyre is doing stuff right now.

@DragonParadox, numbers for ya'
Knowledge (Arcana) +14
Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +5
Knowledge (Geography) +11
Knowledge (History) +10
Knowledge (Law) +12
Knowledge (Nature) +6
Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) +8
Knowledge (Religion) +13
Knowledge (The Planes) +9
Knowledge (War) +5
Knowledge (Arcana) +14
Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +7
Knowledge (Geography) +11
Knowledge (History) +10
Knowledge (Law) +12
Knowledge (Nature) +6
Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) +8
Knowledge (Religion) +13
Knowledge (The Planes) +13
Knowledge (War) +6
Knowledge (Architecture) +3
 
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I'm honestly thinking about asking that book-keeping abomination to come visit our library, letting us take copies of it's collection in return.

We have just so many unique books, that aren't present anywhere else on elemental planes, that it isn't even funny.
 
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zxzx24 said:
The following is based on quite a bit of supposition, and may be negated or outright changed later on.


Is Yrael with us or against us?​
Yrael is pretty firmly in the 'with us' category. Because he has helped us in multiple engagements and widely agrees with our plans and goals. If not 100% on board with our methods.

I imagine it would take quite a lot (like him hearing about the wildfire we sat on) to put him in the 'against us' category.

The problem with Yrael​
One problem is how unlikely he is to actually put himself beneath us in a formal power structure. This is a problem. We simply do not know why exactly, and we should simply ask him because he is an Archon, so we can do that.
(assuming he even can while following the laws of Heaven.)

Like any other sentient being his loyalty always will be conditional. The problem with this is that he is a lawful good outsider. Which mean he will likely cleave as closely as possible to the ideal of loyalty.

This likely means that his loyalty can and likely always would be explicitly conditional. Which is a big huge butt fuck problem when you are making an empire and one piece of your map says. "Not actually part of the empire but were besties really".**

**At least I assume this would be a problem.

Why stop at swearing himself to us?​
So we have Yrael. Who can, and likely would agree to troop movements, educational and cultural exchange, information sharing, status reports, spymilling info sharing, ect, ect.

The problem is what he is not willing to share with us. Which is not a lot, but is probably some things. Combined with him having to be 100% 'You are the best and will gladly march into hells gate with you' loyal to us to join the empire.

I am also fairly certain him swearing himself into our empire would be desertion and or treason of some kind.

Territory.​
Archons are naturally disinterested in taking and holding territory in the prime material. Believing mortals can and should sort their own problems out. Having done some reading I am kind of impressed Azema got him to hold onto the city.
​
What I think we should do.​
He can and will go out and conquer regions in an effort to stabilize them. Making them more difficult to conquer. I do not think this is a problem, because politically, socially, and economically we can crush anything less than a free city in less than an afternoon. This problem will get smaller as we expand.

Frankly I would be fine with taking the slow(est) route. Just stay allies with him and create progressively more and more inclusive and binding treaties as we grow to trust each other more. Its not like he would go back on his word or stir shit up against us (intentionally). Which is far far better for our cause than most. This would likely take decades or centuries. But our diplomatic prowess and the nature of Archons would prevent it from devolving into a huge cluster fuck in the meantime.



As I was writing this something kind of struck me.

If he refuses to swear himself to us on the grounds of still being a ranking member of Heavens military... Thats kind of a huge opportunity.

Because if he is we already have a leg up on diplomancing one of the outermost planes. If heavens government works the way I think it does it also means we have a leg up on diplomancing the entire plane.

If this does turn out to be the case I would recommend we learn as much as possible about Heavens political landscape and begin capitalizing on our alliance with whatever passes for a faction in the mounting Heavens.

If whoever Yrael works for considers his words their bonds we can so use that.

Wow this ended up being a long one.

TLDR: Slow burn treaties with Archons until they withdraw or we absorb them through osmosis.

Edit: WOW this ended up being really long holy shit. I even cut out a lot of it. No more writing at 3:00 am for me jeeze.

Anyway. I theorize that Heaven in its entirety functions as one single government whos members all help each other to varying degrees based on geopolitics.. As well as all being part of the same gigantic army.
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See, we disagree on the first point. Yrael spoke some very clear warnings during our last meeting and immediately left after the battle. Not even a goodbye or something.

I have strong doubts that he still fully supports us, if he did ever.
 
So, what do we want from these people?

As the update so aptly illustrated, demanding oaths of silence and loyalty severely hampered our efforts to acquire crafters in the other parts of the city.

Rather than demanding they keep the Plane of Balance secret for fear of revealing it before we are ready, why don't we attempt to secure their services, perhaps via contract, but not have them actually come to work for us until after the conference which will take place early next turn? That's not even three weeks away IC.
 
Goldfish said:
So, what do we want from these people?

As the update so aptly illustrated, demanding oaths of silence and loyalty severely hampered our efforts to acquire crafters in the other parts of the city.

Rather than demanding they keep the Plane of Balance secret for fear of revealing it before we are ready, why don't we attempt to secure their services, perhaps via contract, but not have them actually come to work for us until after the conference which will take place early next turn? That's not even three weeks away IC.
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On the other hand adventurers are the most likely to take the oath of secrecy from a shady character hailing from an undisclosed location, as long as you pay them well.
 
DragonParadox said:
On the other hand adventurers are the most likely to take the oath of secrecy from a shady character hailing from an undisclosed location, as long as you pay them well.
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I'd rather have eccentric Artificers that will stick around SD making stuff for us instead of adventurers who will want to go out and murderhobo in our back yard.
 
@Azel can you link me or send me the clear warnings you mentioned? The only thing I was able to find was him pointing at Amrelath.

DragonParadox said:
"Hail, friends of Manatrys who delivered it in its hour of need," Yrael calls
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DragonParadox said:
"It is my thought that I and the mightiest among my fellows could aid in your own battles, be it against mortal men or undying horrors."
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Specifically the lecture that got mentioned... quite a few times actually.
 
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What terms of service do we want, ya'll? Start at one year maybe?
 
zxzx24 said:
@Azel can you link me or send me the clear warnings you mentioned? The only thing I was able to find was him pointing at Amrelath.





Specifically the lecture that got mentioned... quite a few times actually.
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This one:
The deal done, you move on to more delicate matters of politics, explaining first your new relationships with Relath, which could hardly be hidden in any case. The news is met with some disapproval, for your duel for supremacy with the sea dragon serves as a reminder of how he subjugated the city by force alone. While the archons were pragmatic enough to work with Relath because it is clear that his rule was better than the one he overthrew, it is clear conquest for its own sake is not something they approve of.
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I'm not trying to murder Yrael for shits and giggles. The important question right now is if we can sell him on the idea that Dragon-Emperor Viserys, Ruler of the Prime Material, is objectively the best possible outcome for the sinkhole Planetos. Because we will take very large amounts of land not in centuries, but in years. We have concrete plans for everything west of the Bone Mountains already. Within six months, we will own southern Essos from the Narrow Sea to Slavers Bay. If they have a problem with us conquering, they will blow a fuse right then and there.
 
Are the alignments here primarily CG? Maybe tailor the argument to emphasize the positive impact of their actions vs just contractual obligations?
 
I have heard a lot of people express a ton of anger and hatred towards Yrael. As well as several people stating a wish to kill him.

This is concerning to me for several reasons.

Edit: Not a willingness to kill him should he be a problem

A desire to kill him. To the point of wishing that he would become a problem.
 
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