Yes, a third level wand is totally cheap and accessible. Stop trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Guys, 'torturer' is a perfectly valid occupation here.
 
Except that's not how it will go down. Do not delude yourself. You're uniting the former freemen classes against the new order, because they will perceive those we punish as innocent of wrong doing, and hold them up as martyrs. Instead of hammering in the message of "the old order is done and gone. Now this is how things will go from now on, you are all freemen equal before the King, so worry about what you are doing today and turn your eyes to the future" you will just widen the divides of the past and push the city towards violence and counter-violence. Who has wronged me in the past? "That freed slave got my father killed, when he was known as one of the masters with the lightest touch!"

There is a reason almost every just, modern law system considers ex-post facto laws unjust.
I would rather deal with that, than I would deal with having to execute people for avenging their murdered loved ones, if we executed all the actual murderers amongst the slavers, then at least we can know that any murderer we have to punish, wont be a case of having to punish someone for taking rightful revenge.

I don't want to stand in the position of having to pass judgement on a former slave, because he killed the former slaver who raped and killed his sister.

And that's the kind of situation we will have to deal with, if we spare the slavers who unrightfully had slaves executed.
 
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I want to retroactively consider all slaves freemen, which mean having had them killed for something that you wouldn't kill a freeman for is murder, the slavery itself will be forgiven, but any punishments they have levied on their slaves, that they wouldn't have levied on a free servant, that I want them punished for.

If former slaves are killing slavers who never had innocents executed, or if they are killing the relatives of slavers then they must be punished, but a murderer is a murderer, regardless of if it was legal because the target was a slave, so if a former slave kill a pardoned slaver, because the slaver had his little sister executed some years back, then I will argue fiercely for pardoning the former slave.
I don't think you get it for Tyrosh is not a society with slaves, they are a slave society, much like how Westeros is not a society with feudalism but a feudal society.
Tower of the Hand said:
Historians and other scholars describe the difference between a society with slaves and a slave society thusly: in the former, while some people own slaves, slavery is but one interest among many and can be eliminated without great effort; in the latter, slavery becomes such a vital interest that everything else - the economy, the law, politics, culture, society, religion - becomes reshaped to support it. Dissenting voices and values must be discarded and then banned, and outside influences become threatening.
If you want to kill slave owners in Tyrosh for killing slaves for things they wouldn't kill freemen for are you also willing to have Westerosi lords killed for executing smallfolk for reasons they wouldn't kill other lords?
 
Obviously we are killing the worst of the masters, to keep the slaves happy.
But the more merciful we are, the less scared the other cities will be, which in my opinion is important enough that we should keep our "Righteous fury" instincts in check.
 
Yes, a third level wand is totally cheap and accessible. Stop trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Guys, 'torturer' is a perfectly valid occupation here.
I would rather see that practice eliminated.
We have better options.
Even Inquisitors have better options.

And people who don't have access to the levels of magic needed also don't have the superhuman Sense Motive needed to make torture in any way helpful or reliable because, just as a reminder, it doesn't work IRL.

If you need magic of at least the 2nd level to make it remotly work we can also use less ugly alternatives at that point.
 
No Duesal, almost every damn lord has an interrogator, even if it isn't a ful-time one.

It's just a thing that happens. Remember, beheadings are family-friendly entertainment, and heads on pikes is just right and proper.

In this game, it is something that is not spoken of in polite company, and (Westerosi) lords tend to not want to be seen taking part in it.

I don't think it's as socially acceptable to do it as you are implying/stating. Except of course when it is part of a family fun day out, then it's wholesome fun for the whole family!
 
I would rather deal with that, than I would deal with having to execute people for avenging their murdered loved ones, if we executed all the actual murderers amongst the slavers, then at least we can know that any murderer we have to punish, wont be a case of having to punish someone for taking rightful revenge.

I don't want to stand in the position of having to pass judgement on a former slave, because he killed the former slaver who raped and killed his sister.

And that's the kind of situation we will have to deal with, if we spare the slavers who unrightfully had slaves executed.
There is no such thing as a "right of revenge". Even Yrael had former slaves executed for forming what amounts to lynch mobs.

This city needs order. Not high-handed victors "justice".
 
There is no such thing as a "right of revenge". Even Yrael had former slaves executed for forming what amounts to lynch mobs.

This city needs order. Not high-handed victors "justice".

Exiled, I believe, but also a slave was found guilty for setting a fire to distract his owners that ended up killing children
 
No Duesal, almost every damn lord has an interrogator, even if it isn't a ful-time one.

It's just a thing that happens. Remember, beheadings are family-friendly entertainment, and heads on pikes is just right and proper.
That at least is one thing I don't want to change. People should still cheerfully attend the executions of enemies of the Imperium.
 
Build suggestion for our new lvl 1 Human Sorcerers:

Lvl 1 Sorcerers with the Sphere of fire ACF (+1 CL with fire spells and -2 CL for cold spells). Take a Raven familiar both for flavor, because we have Ravens everywhere and because they can talk and scout.

Stats: Cha<Con<Int<Dex<Wis<Str

Feats: Precocious Apprentice (scorching ray), Fiery Burst, Flaw (murky-eyed), Flaw (noncombatant), Improved Initiative, Bloodline of Fire,

Skills: Knowledge (arcana), Concentration, Spellcraft. If possible, Knowledge (the planes) and Bluff would be nice.

Spells known: Prestigiditation, Arcane Mark, Detect Magic, Read Magic
LV 1: Kelgore's Firebolt, Charm Person

Final result: A caster level of 5 for fire spells (so 5d6 damage at medium range with Kelgore's Firebolt), and Fiery Burst at will for 2d6. Very squishy in a fight, so they have Improved Initiative and should get to cover and stay there, sniping with fire and the dropping back down.

@TotallyNotEvil I think that you made the build for the other Legion mages. What do you think of this one?
Should I change some feats? Give them Mage Armor instead of Charm Person?
They could get UMD as a class skill and lose the familiar if I gave them the Dragonblood Sorcerer Substitution Level: worth it?


@DragonParadox, how are stats determined for them?
And would you accept this feat for them, as well as the "+1 CL for fire spells and -2 CL for Cold spells" ACF? Reason being that they are unlocking Dragon/Valyrian blood, and that they are literally being trained by a Red Dragon after all.
 
I would like to say on the chapter itself that I'm tremendously happy about this part going off without a hitch. With the Bleeding Tower down, the fleet can approach in peace and the light rain means they won't be spotted until they are very close to the harbor already.
 
There is no such thing as a "right of revenge". Even Yrael had former slaves executed for forming what amounts to lynch mobs.

This city needs order. Not high-handed victors "justice".
Lynch mobs are different from the right of vengeance, lynch mobs kill innocents as much as they kill the guilty, the right of vengeance only apply when the state should have punished the victim, but didn't for some reason.

When the law fails you, is when it becomes right to take it into your own hand, so long as you remember to keep within doing what the law should have done, it's not an excuse to begin to murder the murderer of your loved ones children, because the law failed to punish him, but it is a just reason to kill the murderer yourself since the law wont.
Exiled, I believe, but also a slave was found guilty for setting a fire to distract his owners that ended up killing children
That slave who ended up killing children needed to be punished, what I really don't want to punish, is a former slave who killed the actual slaver who had his loved ones killed.
 
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Lynch mobs are different from the right of vengeance, lynch mobs kill innocents as much as they kill the guilty, the right of vengeance only apply when the state should have punished the victim, but didn't for some reason.

When the law fails you, is when it becomes right to take it into your own hand, so long as you remember to keep within doing what the law should have done.

That slave who ended up killing children needed to be punished, what I really don't want to punish, is a former slave who killed the actual slaver who had his loved ones killed.
You are arguing that a person should, if he feels that the law failed him, carry out a vigilante killing of the offender. That is no different then a lynch-mob. You are arguing in favor of random people killing others just because they feel they should be allowed to do so.

What the hell!?
 
Part MCMLXIX: A Sellword's Word
A Sellword's Word


Twenty-Seventh Day of the Second Month 293 AC

Gorgious the Generous is not by any measure a handsome man. Sparse greying hair frames a face wrinkled like an old prune, and what you can see of the rest of him is hardly any better. Truth be told you would rather not see him in his current state of undress, hidden only by the fraying sheets. Yet for all that you must look deeper, lest the ordinary tableau hide some more sinister truth.

Thankfully neither you nor Dany spy any telltale signs to show the woman is more than she appears, a courtesan or lover, in a somewhat unfortunate place. With a touch of enchantment you send her deeper into slumber before carefully taking the sellsword's weapon out of reach and shaking him awake.

"Who... what the devil," he calls, beginning to struggle. To his eyes you must be an indistinct shadow against the faint light filtering though the tent's walls.

"We mean you no harm," you assure him, a half-truth at best, but one he thankfully takes as enough to stop, though it might also have been Oathkeper's flames as Ser Richard half-draws it from its sheath.

"Prince Viserys, I pressume?" he asks after a moment of taking in your features by the sword's light. "To what do I owe the honor of your company?" His tone is thick with irony, but you pay it no mind.

"I come bearing warning and an offer," you begin.

"Turn my cloak lest you turn my guts inside out, is it? I thought princes were above assassination... with their own two hands at least," he interrupts, testing you, seeking to distract you or perhaps both.

You would be wrong then, you think, grimly recalling Gorthos' fate, though outwardly you keep a a pleasant demeanor as you explain what you had learned of fiends and treachery in the ranks of his company.

"So I'm fucking expected to believe that there are demons running loose, that one of my men is conspiring with them against me, and that you came here to warn me out of the kindness of your heart?" the sellsword asks incredulously, tone rising with every word until you fear that he might wake his lover even through the haze of enchanted sleep.

"The first two, but not the third," you counter. "Before this night is out Tyrosh will fall to my men, for steel and sorcery both I have enough of to make it so. However, I am no savage to revel in slaughter nor a fool to love the looting of my own future subjects or blood spilled for its own sake. I would much rather have the aid of your men in taking and holding the city, guaranteeing you a place in my realm."

"A place as a traitor and turncloak whom no man would trust to keep faith and a contract unbroken," comes the shrewd reply. "I'm old enough to have seen companies make that mistake before, but the Second Sons have ever held faith and that is why the broken sword still flies where so many other banners are lost and forgotten."

"Faith is a thing for more than one to keep, whether they be paymaster and sellsword or lord and bannerman," Dany interjects unexpectedly, causing the man to actually flinch slightly from her heavenly guise. Your sister continues not noticing or, more likely, not caring. "To allow such a canker to grow in their city makes the magisters unfit to command you, just as though they let the plague run rampant and expected you all to stand and die at your posts. Is any gold worth that?"

"I have seen no demons nor even any sorcerers of note... until now," he replies. "I'll not break the company's word and bond over tales spun in the night."

Truth be told you find yourself grudgingly respecting the man who can say that looking death in the face, inconvenient though his honor might prove to be. Thus you ask plainly: "And if we prove the truth out our words by bringing this traitor forth, will that be enough?"

As you speak you notice Dany whispering softly under her breath her eyes distant as they oft are when she draws upon the dream. Your eyes still touched by sight beyond sight you instantly recognize the spell. She mirrors Gorgious' nod with one of her own. The man does not play you false.

You suspect Merro will not be so easily caught unaware as his commander had, given he already has ties with the daemon-callers. By the same token, however, you doubt he is expecting quite the kind of opposition you and your company can bring to bear.

How do you capture Merro for interrogation?

[] Write in

OOC: That was a really outlandish story you had to sell here even with all your buffs. On the plus side you could not really fail because the rolls for it were already done when you divined the answer at the beginning of the month.
 
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Build suggestion for our new lvl 1 Human Sorcerers:

Lvl 1 Sorcerers with the Sphere of fire ACF (+1 CL with fire spells and -2 CL for cold spells). Take a Raven familiar both for flavor, because we have Ravens everywhere and because they can talk and scout.

Stats: Cha<Con<Int<Dex<Wis<Str

Feats: Precocious Apprentice (scorching ray), Fiery Burst, Flaw (murky-eyed), Flaw (noncombatant), Improved Initiative, Bloodline of Fire,

Skills: Knowledge (arcana), Concentration, Spellcraft. If possible, Knowledge (the planes) and Bluff would be nice.

Spells known: Prestigiditation, Arcane Mark, Detect Magic, Read Magic
LV 1: Kelgore's Firebolt, Charm Person

Final result: A caster level of 5 for fire spells (so 5d6 damage at medium range with Kelgore's Firebolt), and Fiery Burst at will for 2d6. Very squishy in a fight, so they have Improved Initiative and should get to cover and stay there, sniping with fire and the dropping back down.

@TotallyNotEvil I think that you made the build for the other Legion mages. What do you think of this one?
Should I change some feats? Give them Mage Armor instead of Charm Person?
They could get UMD as a class skill and lose the familiar if I gave them the Dragonblood Sorcerer Substitution Level: worth it?


@DragonParadox, how are stats determined for them?
And would you accept this feat for them, as well as the "+1 CL for fire spells and -2 CL for Cold spells" ACF? Reason being that they are unlocking Dragon/Valyrian blood, and that they are literally being trained by a Red Dragon after all.
For the prodigies among the sorcerers I wanted to give them the dragonblooded subtype.
 
Why have their CHA their lowest stat? :V

Yeah, Cha > Con > INT > DEX > Wis > Str.

I'm waiting for @DragonParadox to comment on allowing Sorcerers to naturally cap at 6th, and perhaps give them a bonus feat like wizards get, or straight Academy Sorcerer abilities.

Also, UMD is highly unreliable at low levels.

I'm leaning towards the cap at 6 for simplicity but at the same time I like the fluff for academy sorcerer.
 
You are arguing that a person should, if he feels that the law failed him, carry out a vigilante killing of the offender. That is no different then a lynch-mob. You are arguing in favor of random people killing others just because they feel they should be allowed to do so.

What the hell!?
Sometime the law is so corrupt that it's the only right choice, so long as that's not the case then it shouldn't be done, but in a world where you can bribe your way out of murder, sometime vigilantism is the only way justice will be done.

Of course you must be prepared that the law will hunt you if you do that, because if it was corrupt enough to forgive a murderer because he was rich, then it's definitely also going to hunt you down, for killing a rich guy who was generous with bribes.

My argument isn't that I feel that a person should do so, my argument is that sometimes such things is the only way for justice to happen, and I don't want our realm to be one of those places, I want to punish all the murderers hiding behind the fact that their victims were slaves, because I don't want to be in the position, of having to punish people for avenging their loved ones, who were murdered legally because they were slaves.

If the law is corrupt enough you go from vigilante to resistance fighter, and I will consider our law corrupt enough, if we let murderers go because their victims were slaves.
 
All dragonseeds are free to take Draconic Heritage (Red) as a feat which would get them counted as Dragonblooded.
I'm kind of tempted to find a prodigy and bring them under Viserys' wing to advance them three levels in the Dragonblooded PrC, just so we can get that Blood of the Dragons (Ex) that would make them immune to Sleep and Paralysis. And then afterwards we give them a different PrC to advance in. The hypothetical dragonseed could be one of our future dragonriders... when we take care of our scarcity of dragon eggs.

Also @TotallyNotEvil, since Sothoryos unfortunately seems unlikely to happen, let's do a Dragonstone action instead. DP said we could spend a few days looking at the volcano and rooting through the fortress for dragon eggs and those weird dragonkin.
 
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