That's true enough. I just think that being able to gain the Shadow-Traced template at will would be better for her. It includes decent Damage Reduction, Spell Resistance, and a +2 bonus to her Charisma, all of which are great for a risk adverse Sorceress who might still be called on to engage in combat in an emergency.

There's an unfortunate chance she will never progress beyond 10th level, so we should try to make the most of that last level, IMO.
I agree that it's a very good template, but I first want a WoG from @DragonParadox how it's supposed to work with spellcasting before making any decisions there.

If it actually allows her to cast four spells independantly she can go nova for incredible effects for one or two rounds, if all copies mirror her spellcasting she can quadrouple the effects of all her spells while having it active. The Shadow-effect is offset by her focus on Illusion, I think TNE already showed the math on that one.
Either would be pretty OP for a fullcaster.
I think we should try for some compromise there.
 
I agree that it's a very good template, but I first want a WoG from @DragonParadox how it's supposed to work with spellcasting before making any decisions there.

If it actually allows her to cast four spells independantly she can go nova for incredible effects for one or two rounds, if all copies mirror her spellcasting she can quadrouple the effects of all her spells while having it active. The Shadow-effect is offset by her focus on Illusion, I think TNE already showed the math on that one.
Either would be pretty OP for a fullcaster.
I think we should try for some compromise there.

To be honest, I would be perfectly happy if @DragonParadox ruled that the Traces couldn't cast spells at all. Even without that ability, they are still quite useful.
 
I'm kinda sick of having everyone have a fantastic custom PrC. I'd vote to have her go Sorcerer! Or maybe take a +1 Template like the Dark or Shadow Creature Template (was that one updated to +2? Not sure) that increases her survivability. Dark gives her speed and Hide in Plain Sight as well as great boost to her stealth skills. Shadow Creature grants her the same, as well as Fast Healing and Plane Shift 1/day!

Sure it doesn't advance her spellcasting, but these do seem rather great for her!
 
I'm kinda sick of having everyone have a fantastic custom PrC. I'd vote to have her go Sorcerer! Or maybe take a +1 Template like the Dark or Shadow Creature Template (was that one updated to +2? Not sure) that increases her survivability. Dark gives her speed and Hide in Plain Sight as well as great boost to her stealth skills. Shadow Creature grants her the same, as well as Fast Healing and Plane Shift 1/day!

Sure it doesn't advance her spellcasting, but these do seem rather great for her!

No.

Sorcerer base class is awful and you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting it.
 
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To add to that flat negative, you just don't dip caster levels generally when you can help it. And adding in a dip to account for all the class features at the very end of the progression is more of a compromise than anything else, to someone already unlikely to make it that far.
 
I'm kinda sick of having everyone have a fantastic custom PrC. I'd vote to have her go Sorcerer! Or maybe take a +1 Template like the Dark or Shadow Creature Template (was that one updated to +2? Not sure) that increases her survivability. Dark gives her speed and Hide in Plain Sight as well as great boost to her stealth skills. Shadow Creature grants her the same, as well as Fast Healing and Plane Shift 1/day!

Sure it doesn't advance her spellcasting, but these do seem rather great for her!
She gets teleport next CL.
Teleport.

And base sorcerer is not something you give, it's something you inflict.

Planeshift has a 200 mile randomisation factor and requires teleport to be reasonable to use.

Again: teleport next level :D.

Also, and I know I'm the one focused on this; skill points :D
 
I'll be honest and say that I don't think she'll ever hit level 11 if we don't increase her survivability. I'm not too keen on yet another crazy custom PrC for someone who's really quite secondary, so that's why I was suggesting Templates that make her significantly harder to kill. That way she'd hopefully be more willing to go out and fight if needed and get a few more levels!
 
Okay, time to blow all of your minds! Teana Qualifies for Incantatrix if we retrain one of her feats into a metamagic one!

Similarly she can also easily qualify for Spellsword (She needs the Dodge feat, and for the special requirement just give her some armor and a sword and she can easily kill a wolf or something a low-level warrior). One level gives her a 10% asf reduction, so she could go around in Githcraft Mithril full plate with basically no penalty!
 
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Okay, time to blow all of your minds! Teana Qualifies for Incantatrix if we retrain one of her feats into a metamagic one!

Similarly she can also easily qualify for Spellsword. One level gives her a 10% asf reduction, so she could go around in Githcraft Mithril full plate with basically no penalty!

Too bad she would never progress far enough as an Incantrix to make it worth learning.

And Spellsword...dude... :facepalm:
 
Too bad she would never progress far enough as an Incantrix to make it worth learning.

And Spellsword...dude... :facepalm:
Hey, Spellsword is a decent dip for someone who wants survivability! Especially seeing as she already has Iron Will for some reason. Of course she'd only take one level in the class, but it isn't bad at all considering that she's already paid most of the cost to qualify.

Edit: And having her be an Incantatrix is honestly not bad. The prerequisites are basically already met, and she'd get decent benefits even at low levels. One level of Incantatrix is a bonus feat, which is deent but uninspired. Then one more level is Cooperative Metamagic which just makes her more useful to us when it comes to rituals and such (or using spells before battle, spells as artillery...). It's a pretty good ability for her considering the role we give her in our tactics and government! Then the level 3 ability is great, but she'll probably never get there. So she'll never really break the game using Incantatrix Persistomancy crazyness, but she'll get some decent benefits out of it.

I'd honestly go for Spellsword though. It's usually a terrible class, but it'd be decent for her. Especially so if she never gets past level 10!
 
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Part MDCCCXXXII: Unwelcome Tidings
Unwelcome Tidings

Twenty-Fourth Day of the First Month 293 AC

Ysilla Royce does not flinch from recounting her deeds, but nor does she seem particularly apologetic in her account. Though she does not quite manage the quiet dignity she is playing for, you have to give her credit for speaking without a hind of shrillness of childish resentment. If you were to make a guess on the matter, you would say she has practiced speaking these very words many times over, and to his credit Lord Royce listens stony-faced, placing a hand on his wife's shoulder when she is about to speak up

"... so having struck my bargain I called Waymar and a little while later he showed up in my dreams by magic, not his magic, the princesses' that is, to check on me."

The first words out of Bronze Yohn's mouth are not quite what you expected. "At what hour precisely did you sneak out of the keep and by what path did you go?"

"Er... that does that mater?" the girl asks, a lot less sure now that she is no longer reciting from a script.

"Because I would like to know who needs to be striped of my colors and put in the stocks for good measure," the old lord announces gravely. "To have failed to spot your coming and going bespeaks of more than failure to do their duty. Contempt might be closer."

"They were probably... er nursing a sore head," Ysilla tries faintly to help, obviously uncomfortable with having lost some of the men-at-arms their livelyhood.

"Well if they were drunk that's perfectly reasonable then." Yohn looks about ready to spit fire, and looking everywhere but at his daughter, perhaps for fear of venting his anger on her.

"The oath will not be anything too onerous or dishonorable, father. We took care of it," Waymar interjects.

"Oath? What oath?!" Lady Royce exclaims. "How could a child be expected to make deals with those... savages? They know no more honor than a rabid dog."

You clear your throat before explaining, "She swore it beneath the gaze of the Old Gods, and they care little for the age of the who gives an oath beneath the branches of a godswood, for seven to seventy all mortals seem just as young for ones as ancient as they."

Bronze Yohn flinches at the words and sits down heavily, giving a long look to the wine pitcher before thinking the better of it. "What's to be done, then? Find and kill this witch before she can tall her due?" The words are spoken with no small measure of disdain, but with resolve also. No less than you might expect from the man who wrote to Waymar time and time again though some might count it treason.

"When Ysilla shared her predicament with us we worked to ensure that nothing too onerous would be asked of her," you try to reassure the lord.

"And I'm going to be able to protect myself better anyway. Waymar promised to teach me magic, and I bet he knows a lot more then some wildling witch," the girl pipes in, rather unhelpfully you would judge.

Now the old lord pours his drink hands trembling ever so slightly, in anger, fear, or perhaps both. Rather than addressing what his daughter had said, he turns to you again and asks, "How can you know my daughter will not be harmed or shamed by the oath she gave to the wildlings?"

What do you reply?

[] Write in

OOC: Well that could have gone better... but also considerably worse.
 
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Now the old lord pours his drink hands trembling ever so slightly, in anger, fear or perhaps both. Rather than addressing what his daughter had said he turns to you again and asks: "How can you know my daughter will not be harmed or shamed by the oath she gave to the wildlings?"

Talked to to the witch's supervisor and made it clear that she and her gods would get in trouble with us if they fucked up.

@Duesal You don't have that Adept under other adventurers.
 
"Because my bargaining position with the Old Gods is far better theirs, and they know it. Their "Godspeaker" receives orders from the Old Gods. Targaryens make treaties and agreements with them. And what has their Godspeaker done? Sacrificed a few mortals, maybe an undead or two? We have hunted down and slain many of the mightiest horrors that dared to return to this world along the rising tides of magic. We further the power and influence of the Old Gods more than any clansman ever could, and they know it. Should there be war between us, their magic and blessings will turn against them and the Old Gods themselves would not choose to protect them over me!"

Maybe phrase this a little less unbelievably?
 
[X] Plan "These things happen to teach lessons, and then Viserys bails you out of the fire"
-[X] "To be perfectly honest my Lord? They would be beyond foolish to ask what would be beyond the means or overruling the expectations of a young girl of a noble house not yet even flowered. What could a girl of her years yet do without personal power at her own command but the ear of her Lord father? If it was beyond such means and they asked it anyway, foolish are they in the doing, then, since they would answer to her relatives and their allies."
-[X] "Such open ended favors exchanged with strangers are not what I would recommend any person make without desperation guiding them, but then anyone could have made such a promise not many years ago and without the eyes and ears of the Gods weighing heavily upon them. The world is closer to the stories of yore than it is to the one either of our fathers lived in, which is why I stress the importance of educating... everyone, about the dangers that we face, both from men who dabble in sorcery, have the ears of gods, or whatever else ilk preys upon the misconceptions of mankind this day."
-[X] "As to what can be done? I doubt fire and steel should be necessary to absolve her of the favor owed... if but mere words were exchanged between they and I. I admit I am mostly interested in what kind of person would even be interested in holding such a promise over the head of a child in her position. No doubt if they hold such designs as you imagine upon her, they will come to regret them before long."
 
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Idea:

[]Smile. "Because Waymar and I, at the least, are going to go and see what this wildling wants (suggesting a PfE, but if she wishes something else, we are open to negotiation. To a point.) And we are going to make it very clear that if anything egregious is requested, then all of her clan will die. Quickly. Party do some sort of aura of power thing*. If she attempts to hold onto the debt to use later, her clan will die. Quickly. I prefer to have people live than not, but I will destroy them if need be.

*can we do aura of power effect?
 
[X] "In this matter you need not fear, Lord Royce. Your daughter is as safe now as she was prior to the ill-advised adventure which saw her cross paths with the Wildling witch."
-[X] "The Wildlings are but puppets of another master, one who has a vested interest in their continued survival. He knows perfectly well what would happen to his pawns should they seek to take advantage of your daughter's Oath. Waymar, aided by myself and our companions, would fall upon them with the same wrath that has already shattered armies and torn asunder the champions of Hell."
--[X] If asked about the Wildlings' master, reply with "He is an ancient creature far beyond your ability to influence, Lord Royce. Although you would perhaps count him an enemy, he is vital to the defense of Westeros against enemies none are currently prepared to face. As distasteful as it is to admit, let alone tolerate, the Wildlings are but one of the tools he wields to stave off a greater threat in order to give the realm time to prepare. On this matter I can say more, as the Enemy has the means to learn when it is spoken of, even in hushed whispers behind warded walls."


@DragonParadox Would this be an acceptable PrC for Teana? I know it's powerful, but I want to get the most bang for our buck out of 10th level if that's as far as she ever progresses.
 
She has been constantly adventuring.
I agree that her class is shit, but she should have a decent level in it by now.
Not to underestimate, she's propably worth as much as an actual PC that's a few levels lower.
I mean, she, her grandfather, and someone else very recently almost died to some relatively low-level Winterborn. Even if she's breeched PC levels, she still can't make herself a challenge to an actual PC. I simply do not consider her enough of a threat to bother keeping track of. I'll add her in if you insist, but I really don't see the need for it.

@Goldfish, no revealing Bloodraven.
 
Don't have time to write a vote - on my phone - but we should probably frame this in the same manner as how we are King and Protector to our subjects in matters supernatural. She is one we see as subject, and we owe her family for everything Waymar has done in our service. If it comes to it, we will ensure her safety, as any liege would.

@Crake
 
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