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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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How about a multiple use smoky confinement bottle. That costs a spell slot to use and can only contain one entity at a time? Basically an item to act as a permanent reagent and page of spell knowledge for Smoky confinement? Or basically a rehash of my old Manacles of Chains of Light idea.

Because come on who doesn't want magic photon packs and ghost traps to bust some spooks.
 
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Duesal said:
@Mormont, in our Huge Halfdragon form we're strong enough that we can literally lift the ships and teleport back with them. We don't even need the Shadow Tower for this. We successfully stole an entire inn, after all.

By the way, @BeepSmile, I completely agree with you. I also want another Wayfinder or two. I also want to add a Lay of the Land effect and a Locate Plant or Animal effect. It'll be tricky fitting it in the future crafting schedules, but good god it'll be worth it.
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Ok, here's the thing, I am fairly convince d we need to lift sweet f-a to teleport something. It just has to be a discrete object that can be a container or building or boat or whatever that weighs less than Viserys max carry weight. The object does not need to be lifted, just touched. This is important for structural integrity as lifting buildings or boats will probably just get you a broken building or boat. I point this out because others have been under the impression that objects have to be lifted and I disagree very strongly with that.
I've checked and it wasn't stated clearly if the inn was physically picked up or not... But, where would one actually grip it to do so? How would one distribute the weight as opposed to what happens when superman tries to lift a plane?
If I'm being a dick, I'm sorry, but this has been brought up before, and there were strongly held opinions based on assumptions of limitations that were not confirmed, and I don't want the implication that we have to physically pick up an object to teleport it to just be assumed correct unless DP says so.

Also, we should have a nice sturdy flat bit of rock set aside as a receiving point for looted buildings, just incase we want one on short notice and don't want to need to prep new foundations.
 
@Duesal, @Azel, what do we want from Lys' tree? We can have the effects set to hide the Heart Tree of course, but what do we want out of the extra?

I had wished the three deities we are sponsoring would have cooperated in making a sort of mangrove sea serpent. It would have doubled as a guardian for our waters and as a "submarine"when we finally get to invade the Elder Brain's domicile, but the Old Gods wants the Landwarden for themselves.

Treants then? Weirwood Leshies?

Oh, I know! @TotallyNotEvil, @Goldfish, does D&D have Final Fantasy style "Summons?" Like a spell to summon something that performs an attack, or a finishing move. What if we ask for a spell we can use once a month to invoke the "Wrath of the Old Gods" (i.e. Hammer of the Waters 1/16th of the power. Time to drown the Bey of Beggars?) Tie it in to the Runestaff as an additional spell perhaps?
 
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BeepSmile said:
Ok, here's the thing, I am fairly convince d we need to lift sweet f-a to teleport something. It just has to be a discrete object that can be a container or building or boat or whatever that weighs less than Viserys max carry weight. The object does not need to be lifted, just touched. This is important for structural integrity as lifting buildings or boats will probably just get you a broken building or boat. I point this out because others have been under the impression that objects have to be lifted and I disagree very strongly with that.
I've checked and it wasn't stated clearly if the inn was physically picked up or not... But, where would one actually grip it to do so? How would one distribute the weight as opposed to what happens when superman tries to lift a plane?
If I'm being a dick, I'm sorry, but this has been brought up before, and there were strongly held opinions based on assumptions of limitations that were not confirmed, and I don't want the implication that we have to physically pick up an object to teleport it to just be assumed correct unless DP says so.

Also, we should have a nice sturdy flat bit of rock set aside as a receiving point for looted buildings, just incase we want one on short notice and don't want to need to prep new foundations.
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No worries, I more or less forgot that feature. My bad. :p
Takesis said:
@Duesal, @Azel, what do we want from Lys' tree? We can have the effects set to hide the Heart Tree of course, but what do we want out of the extra?

I had wished the three deities we are sponsoring would have cooperated in making a sort of mangrove sea serpent. It would have doubled as a guardian for our waters and as a "submarine"when we finally get to invade the Elder Brain's domicile, but the Old Gods wants the Landwarden for themselves.

Treants then? Weirwood Leshies?

Oh, I know! @TotallyNotEvil, @Goldfish, does D&D have Final Fantasy style "Summons?" Like a spell to summon something that performs an attack, or a finishing move. What if we ask for a spell we can use once a month to invoke the "Wrath of the Old Gods" (i.e. Hammer of the Waters 1/16th of the power. Time to drown the Bey of Beggars?) Tie it in to the Runestaff as an additional spell perhaps?
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Hmmm...

The Tree of Lys
"A young woman's face, her eyes kind and her smile like the summer sun, her expression maternal and protective."
Effects:
CL 20 Hallow Effect
Secondary Effect 1: Panacea - People are healed, and afterwards they are expected to help tend to the godswood for a month as payment.
Secondary Effect 2: Heart's Ease
Secondary Effect 3: Death Ward

Death Ward for obvious reasons -- Lys should have quite the hatred for the undead. Heart's Ease and Panacea in case the locals feel like getting healed.

Honestly, Death Ward is the only truly thematic thing there. The other two can be replaced with little issue. Tongues is another option. Protection from Energy. Zone of Truth. Etc. Plenty of choices. And since the effects of the tree aren't as important as the fact that it's bound to the Landwarden, I'm at a bit of a loss about that the "best" choice is.
 
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Duesal said:
No worries, I more or less forgot that feature. My bad. :p

Hmmm...

The Tree of Lys
"A young woman's face, her eyes kind and her smile like the summer sun, her expression maternal and protective."
Effects:
CL 20 Hallow Effect
Secondary Effect 1: Panacea - People are healed, and afterwards they are expected to help tend to the godswood for a month as payment.
Secondary Effect 2: Heart's Ease
Secondary Effect 3: Death Ward

Death Ward for obvious reasons -- Lys should have quite the hatred for the undead. Heart's Ease and Panacea in case the locals feel like getting healed.
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The modified healing/fire ward spell, in a city of hundreds of thousands. Well 2 hundreds. That would feed the OG quite a bit, no?
 
Duesal said:
Yeah, that's probably a better choice. Death Ward, Panacea, and the modified healing/fire ward? Not a bad combo by any means.
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We should probably discuss the death ward with the thread and ask DP how useful it might be compared to heart's ease - the healing of mental strain/damage might make more people more likely to go for the blood healing, like 2-10% more, due to grateful slaves having an easier time with getting over (well, not over, but closer to it, or something like it) thier suffering. We saw it with Lelia when she was rescued, how grateful she was. Let's have the OG have some of that gratitude.

Death ward might be thematic due to recent Lys problems, but the root cause is a twisted landwarden, not its undead slave. I really do think that the healing tree setup we have in the docks is optimal for mass use.

One thing I've been wondering though - the pancaea cost - how many people are actually able to look after a godswood area at once?

I can imagine them getting a little crowded :p.

I wonder if we can't sell a tree to Brravos at somepoiny, but it would have to be free for people to use as we want max sacarafic, but we can sell the idea as "helps stop the end of everything" easily enough.

Edit: for PR and party cohesion reasons and generally saving time, I wonder how much HD it would take to rez Amrelath.
 
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BeepSmile said:
Ok, here's the thing, I am fairly convince d we need to lift sweet f-a to teleport something. It just has to be a discrete object that can be a container or building or boat or whatever that weighs less than Viserys max carry weight. The object does not need to be lifted, just touched. This is important for structural integrity as lifting buildings or boats will probably just get you a broken building or boat. I point this out because others have been under the impression that objects have to be lifted and I disagree very strongly with that.
I've checked and it wasn't stated clearly if the inn was physically picked up or not... But, where would one actually grip it to do so? How would one distribute the weight as opposed to what happens when superman tries to lift a plane?
If I'm being a dick, I'm sorry, but this has been brought up before, and there were strongly held opinions based on assumptions of limitations that were not confirmed, and I don't want the implication that we have to physically pick up an object to teleport it to just be assumed correct unless DP says so.

Also, we should have a nice sturdy flat bit of rock set aside as a receiving point for looted buildings, just incase we want one on short notice and don't want to need to prep new foundations.
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Quite sure DP agreed with my reasoning the first time I raised this, no need to worry about structural integrity past settling.

Lift is just an easy shorthand for "within the maximum carrying capacity of Viserys".
 
@Duesal so the tree will protect itself by virtue of being useful? Thats a good start, however there is one more fairly powerful asset we have not used to its full potential:
We should visit Benerro, discuss with him both the protection of the tree (its good, and thus does the Lord's work), and possibly some support for taking over Tyrosh.
Slave guides, magisters murdered and their unsullied set free, door opened un the night, priests calming the masses etc.
I know Rh'llor is a dick, but lets face It, we wont be getting rid of him for a long long time, his is the most widespread religion on essos, so we need to work with them like it or not.
 
BeepSmile said:
We should probably discuss the death ward with the thread and ask DP how useful it might be compared to heart's ease - the healing of mental strain/damage might make more people more likely to go for the blood healing, like 2-10% more, due to grateful slaves having an easier time with getting over (well, not over, but closer to it, or something like it) thier suffering. We saw it with Lelia when she was rescued, how grateful she was. Let's have the OG have some of that gratitude.

Death ward might be thematic due to recent Lys problems, but the root cause is a twisted landwarden, not its undead slave. I really do think that the healing tree setup we have in the docks is optimal for mass use.

One thing I've been wondering though - the pancaea cost - how many people are actually able to look after a godswood area at once?

I can imagine them getting a little crowded :p.

I wonder if we can't sell a tree to Brravos at somepoiny, but it would have to be free for people to use as we want max sacarafic, but we can sell the idea as "helps stop the end of everything" easily enough.
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The other part of it is that there are only so many effects that are valid for the Heart Tree. If we find something that's non-standard like Panacea it has to be vetted by DP and subsequently nerfed, which is where the month of servitude comes in. And yeah... the godswood would get very crowded. I think the only reason the godswood of Sorcerer's Deep isn't overrun all the time is because we offered free magical healing right from the start. But back to Death Ward... it can probably be dropped for something else. I just figured the people would be a lot more accepting of the tree if they knew it was firmly anti-undead.
das_slash said:
@Duesal so the tree will protect itself by virtue of being useful? Thats a good start, however there is one more fairly powerful asset we have not used to its full potential:
We should visit Benerro, discuss with him both the protection of the tree (its good, and thus does the Lord's work), and possibly some support for taking over Tyrosh.
Slave guides, magisters murdered and their unsullied set free, door opened un the night, priests calming the masses etc.
I know Rh'llor is a dick, but lets face It, we wont be getting rid of him for a long long time, his is the most widespread religion on essos, so we need to work with them like it or not.
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Not!Asmodeus? Tricky, tricky. And there's still Garin's debt to him. I really wish we could get our hands on another Unravelling... That aside, yes, we should open up talks with Benerro again. We're probably going to need his help against Zherys.
 
das_slash said:
@Duesal so the tree will protect itself by virtue of being useful? Thats a good start, however there is one more fairly powerful asset we have not used to its full potential:
We should visit Benerro, discuss with him both the protection of the tree (its good, and thus does the Lord's work), and possibly some support for taking over Tyrosh.
Slave guides, magisters murdered and their unsullied set free, door opened un the night, priests calming the masses etc.
I know Rh'llor is a dick, but lets face It, we wont be getting rid of him for a long long time, his is the most widespread religion on essos, so we need to work with them like it or not.
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I disagree, we can tell the church that if they want to worship, they can do it in a way that is in keeping with our laws and give those that choose otherwise the opportunity to leave peacefully.

We come with power and sellswords and compromising with evil when you really really don't have to just leads to problems.

Brenno is a great dude, but his owner is a prick of the highest order.

I suppose my main point of contention is that I don't think we need to work with Rhllor's church. *shrugs*
 
BeepSmile said:
I disagree, we can tell the church that if they want to worship, they can do it in a way that is in keeping with our laws and give those that choose otherwise the opportunity to leave peacefully.

We come with power and sellswords and compromising with evil when you really really don't have to just leads to problems.

Brenno is a great dude, but his owner is a prick of the highest order.

I suppose my main point of contention is that I don't think we need to work with Rhllor's church. *shrugs*
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If we don't work with his church, then we simply don't own essos, pretty much all the slaves worship him, you are going to set them free then ban their beliefs and culture? We can simply ignore the church, true, but again, we do that then we don't own essos, we are their emperor but we won't be their leader.
Edit: its the same issue as canon!dany, you need to understand your people, not use force and hope things will work out your way.
 
das_slash said:
If we don't work with his church, then we simply don't own essos, pretty much all the slaves worship him, you are going to set them free then ban their beliefs and culture? We can simply ignore the church, true, but again, we do that then we don't own essos, we are their emperor but we won't be their leader.
Edit: its the same issue as canon!dany, you need to understand your people, not use force and hope things will work out your way.
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I find your argument unconvincing, but you do raise very good points. I'll have to think on it further as I think that part of the reason I'm not giving your points the consideration they deserve is that... I don't like it. *Shrugs*

There's nothing stopping them giving themselves to Rhllor in thier own hearts, but the organised priesthood has got to go so we can replace it somehow. At least that is my view.

As you can see, the "somehow" shows that I do not have a plan myself, but this was brought up before when the laws were being made. Not sure where consensus was left at, I think we just copied however Brravos does it.

To clarify, you make good points, yet my heart rebels against your logic!

Force and hope are indeed a shitty method. I'll read back over what was said in thread around westhaven.

Rhllor is an entrenched enemy.
We'd best get started on trying to find ways to weaken it. ;).
 
BeepSmile said:
I find your argument unconvincing, but you do raise very good points. I'll have to think on it further as I think that part of the reason I'm not giving your points the consideration they deserve is that... I don't like it. *Shrugs*

There's nothing stopping them giving themselves to Rhllor in thier own hearts, but the organised priesthood has got to go so we can replace it somehow. At least that is my view.

As you can see, the "somehow" shows that I do not have a plan myself, but this was brought up before when the laws were being made. Not sure where consensus was left at, I think we just copied however Brravos does it.

To clarify, you make good points, yet my heart rebels against your logic!

Force and hope are indeed a shitty method. I'll read back over what was said in thread around westhaven.

Rhllor is an entrenched enemy.
We'd best get started on trying to find ways to weaken it. ;).
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We can always use the discworld method, strengthen his church until we form a shell that stands on its own, and then let Rhllor dies slowly on his own as he realizes he is no longer a part of his own faith.
.. not sure that would work here, but it would be fun if it did.
 
das_slash said:
We can always use the discworld method, strengthen his church until we form a shell that stands on its own, and then let Rhllor dies slowly on his own as he realizes he is no longer a part of his own faith.
.. not sure that would work here, but it would be fun if it did.
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That is a bloody hilarious thought. I wish I could believe it would work, but it requires the god in question to stop paying attention for a long time. Unlikely imo :'(
 
Deliste said:
Quote?
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I don't have a quote, but if the White Walkers got to counteract sacrifice rewards, then they would be way more active than they are, the clansmen have been sacrificing thousands, and we have sacrificed some pretty strong things, yet Bloodraven complained not at all about all our sacrifices meaning he had to deal with White Walker activity constantly, so the logical conclusion is that they don't get to counteract sacrifices.
 
das_slash said:
If we don't work with his church, then we simply don't own essos, pretty much all the slaves worship him, you are going to set them free then ban their beliefs and culture? We can simply ignore the church, true, but again, we do that then we don't own essos, we are their emperor but we won't be their leader.
Edit: its the same issue as canon!dany, you need to understand your people, not use force and hope things will work out your way.
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Believe whatever you want, the Law is the Law and the people and their church will follow it or they'll deal with the Legal consequences.

I despise exceptions to the Law, particularly religious ones.

If that's not what you're getting at I see no reason to involve the church in our takeover.
 
We should probably talk to Bennero and the other priest in Lys about the role of the tree and how the Old Gods are the main gods trying to stop the Lobg Night. This is mainly due to how the priest there kicked us out of his temple after we used other types of magic to save the temple from attack.
 
The Red God is the special brand of evil that already wants to work with us. At this point, basically the only correct thing said about them is "they're too well entrenched to simply get rid of" which is accurate, we would be pissing people who would otherwise love us off by antagonizing the priesthood. And the thing is, the Priesthood should want to ally with us. The doctrine states that slavery is an inherent facet of the world's natural order, because all things fall under the purview of R'hllor, all glory is his, all failures are simply part of "the plan".

As we see with Melisandre in canon, the rest is completely and entirely flexible. Strict adherence to doctrine? Flexible if the person is important to "the plan". They're Westerosi savages after all, they'll learn eventually. Willingness to burn people to satisfy R'hllor? Preferable, but as long as you've still got their ear, you can make do without it.

Its leaders are just as willing to compromise theology for the sake of advancing their agendas as the Faith of the Seven is. Because the religions exert their power and influence indirectly instead of directly, and pretty much always have, because people can be manipulated to pursue their own agendas, or manipulated to follow your agenda, and that's the way they like it.

What we need to do is stop treating every religious organization like... well, Tiamat, basically. Although they're all, in the end, just upjumped elementals, once they get old enough they're sticky upjumped elementals. Tiamat is not well entrenched. No organized faith. Only cultists. No problem targeting a fringe terror group like that.

Treat R'hllor's church like... well, like any other political faction, and they will come to the table. They may say they're something else, but they're not.
 
Crake said:
What we need to do is stop treating every religious organization like... well, Tiamat, basically. Although they're all, in the end, just upjumped elementals, once they get old enough they're sticky upjumped elementals. Tiamat is not well entrenched. No organized faith. Only cultists. No problem targeting a fringe terror group like that.
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At least on this plane.

Absolutly speaking she might well be older than mankind and her own Plane (or rented place in the Hells/Abyss, if she has that) is likely as entrenched as it gets and filled with more Abishai and draconic creatures than we can imagine.

We should really try to find out how much/easily gods can act on the material, what exactly it takes for them to send their minions here.
Because that Aspect certainly wasn't called by any regular cleric, it has been there before the Essaria-expedition, if we can believe the mercs.

We should put "Nature of the Divine and connection between Planes" on our research-list, right after Soul-lore.
 
Crake said:
The Red God is the special brand of evil that already wants to work with us. At this point, basically the only correct thing said about them is "they're too well entrenched to simply get rid of" which is accurate, we would be pissing people who would otherwise love us off by antagonizing the priesthood. And the thing is, the Priesthood should want to ally with us. The doctrine states that slavery is an inherent facet of the world's natural order, because all things fall under the purview of R'hllor, all glory is his, all failures are simply part of "the plan".

As we see with Melisandre in canon, the rest is completely and entirely flexible. Strict adherence to doctrine? Flexible if the person is important to "the plan". They're Westerosi savages after all, they'll learn eventually. Willingness to burn people to satisfy R'hllor? Preferable, but as long as you've still got their ear, you can make do without it.

Its leaders are just as willing to compromise theology for the sake of advancing their agendas as the Faith of the Seven is. Because the religions exert their power and influence indirectly instead of directly, and pretty much always have, because people can be manipulated to pursue their own agendas, or manipulated to follow your agenda, and that's the way they like it.

What we need to do is stop treating every religious organization like... well, Tiamat, basically. Although they're all, in the end, just upjumped elementals, once they get old enough they're sticky upjumped elementals. Tiamat is not well entrenched. No organized faith. Only cultists. No problem targeting a fringe terror group like that.

Treat R'hllor's church like... well, like any other political faction, and they will come to the table. They may say they're something else, but they're not.
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That's a fair point. One thing I am worried about though is how Burny will react when we plant a heart tree in Lys due to the way his cleric in Lys reacted when we used the Merlin King's token to defend their temple.
 
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