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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@DragonParadox, only 5 votes so far, but no organized disagreement as of yet. Also @BeepSmile, can you fix your vote please? :p
Adhoc vote count started by Duesal on Jan 10, 2018 at 11:01 AM, finished with 137665 posts and 6 votes.
  • [X] Things to help Oberyn
    -[X] Can commission or buy from us and our mage smiths
    --[X] Amulets of PfE
    ---[X] Possible +2 Constitution enhancement
    --[X] +2 Gloves of Dexterity (Oberyn and Nymeria only)
    --[X] +2 Belt of Strength (Oberyn and Nymeria only)
    --[X] Ring of Healing (Oberyn and Nymeria only)
    --[X] Masterwork Razor-Edged weapons for all of his men, Masterwork armor of their choice, and Masterwork shields of their choice
    --[X] +1 Weapons and Armor
    --[X] Silvered Weapons
    --[X] Magelights
    --[X] Rhoynish Cold Iron Mace
    --[X] Offer to sell Oberyn mithral armor in whatever form he might prefer, but only for Oberyn given how precious the metal is (also at a significant markup, again due to how precious the metal is)
    ---[X] Possibility of enhancing armor to +1
    --[X] Offer to sell Oberyn a mithral spear if he desires one
    ---[X] Possibility of enhancing spear to +1
    -[X] Things he gets for free
    --[X] Bag of obsidian sand attuned to our brazier so we and Tyene can contact him whenever we please
    --[X] An arcane-marked stone he is to carry around with him at all times so that we can teleport to him if we ever figure out he's in great danger
    -[X] One condition
    --[X] The Volantines aren't quite enemies yet, but it's a close thing. It's one thing to negotiate with the Mysterium to allow yourself to pass unmolested to explore the ruins of the Rhoynish cities, but we would be very displeased if Oberyn were to enter talks with the Mysterium in hopes of gaining another source of magic. It's not so much looking for another source that upsets us so much as the fact that the Mysterium is the source under consideration.
    ---[X] Elaborate on why you don't want Oberyn engaging in talks with the Mysterium. There are a host of reasons Viserys would be all too happy to discuss.
    ----[X] If they are looking for more sources of magic you wouldn't begrudge them contact with the Orphne Court of Braavos (or just Braavos in general given their budding magic economy) or the Archons of Mantarys.
    -[X] Update on the Elia situation
    --[X] We have gained a link to another world from an angel (nice person, bit sad), where such magics are more readily available. If that does not work out, our group's powers will eventually reach such heights. Within the year, most likely.
    ---[X] Be sure not to set him off with this, but nonetheless warn against taking any deals from Outsiders or their ilk since there's always a far worse price to pay
    -[X] Discuss with Oberyn which cities he plans to raid and what he hopes to find, and go over the dangers and opportunities with him
    --[X] If the occasion calls for it, offer to help him carry away and teleport any truly heavy loot that he might wish to bring home
    -[X] Discuss how he plans to recognize and avoid any curses, and there are sure to be a great deal of curses in the tragic ruins of the Rhoynish cities
    -[X] Discuss what protections he has prepared to ward off Greyscale and the Stone Men
    -[X] Discuss what exactly his plan was before meeting with us
    --[X] We are steadily making progress and soon Dany will be strong enough to attempt to bring Elia back
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Artemis1992 said:
I guess I just fundamentally don't get what is so bad about our allies working with our enemies.
Already didn't understand it with Aberi and Cersei andnow I still don't.:(
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I think the big issue is that the thread, and thus Viserys, doesn't really do allies.

If we meet someone that we like, we almost always attempt to make them our subordinate.

If we meet someone who is too strong to subordinate, we try and kill them.

If we are unable to kill them, either for political reasons or for being too weak, we instead become allies of convenience, with a good chunk of the thread planning to either murder them or subordinate them to Viserys later.

TLDR, thinking of yourself as the eventual ruler of everything isn't very condusive to making good allies.

Edit:

[X] Duesal
I hate voting on mobile lol.
 
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Raichu1972 said:
I think the big issue is that the thread, and thus Viserys, doesn't really do allies.

If we meet someone that we like, we almost always attempt to make them our subordinate.

If we meet someone who is too strong to subordinate, we try and kill them.

If we are unable to kill them, either for political reasons or for being too weak, we instead become allies of convenience, with a good chunk of the thread planning to either murder them or subordinate them to Viserys later.

TLDR, thinking of yourself as the eventual ruler of everything isn't very condusive to making good allies.
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It's less that and more the basic fact that your allies aren't really allies if they're working with your enemies.
 
Duesal said:
It boils down to it being a major violation of trust. It's a general expectation that your supposed allies don't help your enemies. If they do help your enemies, people who are actively either hurting you or threatening you, then they aren't really allies at all.

For example, if we discovered that the Sealord had made a deal with Robert behind our backs and was actively funneling magic items into Westeros, the thread would be rightfully pissed.
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Just not me?
Robert becoming a more relevant threat might be an interesting devolpment.

I'm very live and let live to everyone we are not currently and directly interacting with.
Anger at fictional people only holds until someone is out of sight for me, then I wish them best of luck.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Just not me?
Robert becoming a more relevant threat might be an interesting devolpment.

I'm very live and let live to everyone we are not currently and directly interacting with.
Anger at fictional people only holds until someone is out of sight for me, then I wish them best of luck.
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I think it's well-established that the way you think is far from the norm.

Most people would be pretty fucking angry if one of their supposed allies started selling powerful weapons to their enemies. That's pretty much a stab in the back.

Most people also don't wish their enemies well the second they're out of sight.
 
BeepSmile said:
I concur, ish, I'd rather sell than for a price, but not as high a price as goldfish. @Duesal, what about offering to sell him a mithril or adamantium spearhead for a for fair price, and explain the various damage resistances and piercing of each.
Maybe offer to +1 it at additional cost if he likes?
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I'm totally against letting any Adamantine out of our direct control. It's virtually non-existent on Planetos outside of our small amount. Let's keep it that way.
 
Duesal said:
It's less that and more the basic fact that your allies aren't really allies if they're working with your enemies.
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Nah, they are only working with our enemies because our enemies are not their enemies.

We don't have loyal allies because our allies are all those of convenience.

The mercs tried to kill us, and then we made a deal with them to do things for us if we let them into Planetos iirc.

They have no ties to anyone here, and definitely no real loyalty to us, and thus have no real reason to not work with our enemies.

Zherys is someone who I wouldn't trust for shit, and definitely holds no love in his heart for us. He would backstab us in a heartbeat if he could get away with it consequence free, and we would do the same to him.

Relath is in general a bad ally because Dragons don't really do alliances, and he doesn't respect us because he is a dragon and we are not. It doesn't help that a vocal part of the thread wants to murder his guts.

The only real allies we have are Yrael in Mantarys, who we seem to be avoiding for whatever reason, and the Sealord, who can't openly back us without getting into war with the Iron Throne.
 
Goldfish said:
I'm totally against letting any Adamantine out of our direct control. It's virtually non-existent on Planetos outside of our small amount. Let's keep it that way.
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Agreed. This, and quite frankly we don't have enough Adamantine anyway. I want to build out a better suit of armor for Ser Richard when Lya levels up enough.
Raichu1972 said:
Nah, they are only working with our enemies because our enemies are not their enemies.
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That's the thing. If you're allies with someone, even if you're not actively fighting their enemies with them, it's the most basic of expectations that at least you won't start aiding their enemies.
Raichu1972 said:
The mercs tried to kill us, and then we made a deal with them to do things for us if we let them into Planetos iirc.
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That was actually with the condition that they never aid our enemies, so if it turns out that Aberi is in fact allying with the Lannisters he'll knowingly have broken the agreement he made with us.
 
Duesal said:
Agreed. This, and quite frankly we don't have enough Adamantine anyway. I want to build out a better suit of armor for Ser Richard when Lya levels up enough.

That's the thing. If you're allies with someone, even if you're not actively fighting their enemies with them, it's the most basic of expectations that at least you won't start aiding their enemies.

That was actually with the condition that they never aid our enemies, so if it turns out that Aberi is in fact allying with the Lannisters he'll knowingly have broken the agreement he made with us.
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It probably helps that I never thought of Zherys or Aberi as our allies :p

I thought of them more as nonaggression pacts, where so long as we don't fuck with them they don't fuck with us.

But yeah, if we want non terrible alliances we should probably put some more work into it, like we have with Braavos and Dorne.
 
Raichu1972 said:
It probably helps that I never thought of Zherys or Aberi as our allies :p

I thought of them more as nonaggression pacts, where so long as we don't fuck with them they don't fuck with us.

But yeah, if we want non terrible alliances we should probably put some more work into it, like we have with Braavos and Dorne.
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I never once considered those two as allies. With Aberi the main reason we're mad at him is that one of the conditions of our agreement was that he shouldn't aid our enemy, and then the very first interlude we have of him sees him getting in contact with Cersei Lannister. For his sake he better just be trying to cheat her out of a whole lot of gold.

As for Braavos and Dorne, we're already putting a lot of work into it. With Braavos we have a partnership with the Iron Bank, reduced tolls for the Stepstones, we helped set up the Silver Eye, we're training Alyssande to return as Braavos' foremost protector, we actively deal with any major magical disasters on their behalf, etc.

And for Dorne we sent Velen to them, we sent the Lampad to them, we caught that one terrorist who poisoned hundreds of people for them, we gave Oberyn our spare ships to poor @Mormont's dismay, we put doubt into Lord Dayne's arguments against magic and saved Doran a lot of headaches, and we're working to bring Elia back to life. Oh, and now, we're equipping them for one of the most dangerous dungeon delvings they could possibly do.
 
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@Duesal @DragonParadox

It looks like Dursal's vote has an offer of + Con on the PfE. I would like to once again state my absolute objection to putting any enchantments on a PfE item.
We got burned by that decision before, on the road to Mantareys.

The only way I'd be for such an offer to anyone would be to sell them a party member's con PfE item and make sutible replacement items.
 
@Duesal Really, i'd offer to sell him the same thing I want to craft for Bronn: a +3 Adamantine weapon. It bypasses Magic, Silver, Cold Iron and Adamantine DR, which makes it essentially the closest you can get to a permanent universal weapon.

It being a spear also means we can do Changeling for extra versatility, and sell him a crystal of returning.

Much like Bronn, if he has the ability to stab it, he is liable to kill it.
 
Duesal said:
I never once considered those two as allies. With Aberi the main reason we're mad at him is that one of the conditions of our agreement was that he shouldn't aid our enemy, and then the very first interlude we have of him sees him getting in contact with Cersei Lannister. For his sake he better just be trying to cheat her out of a whole lot of gold.

As for Braavos and Dorne, we're already putting a lot of work into it. With Dorne we have a partnership with the Iron Bank, reduced tolls for the Stepstones, we helped set up the Silver Eye, we're training Alyssande to return as Braavos' foremost protector, we actively deal with any major magical disasters on their behalf, etc.

And for Dorne we sent Velen to them, we sent the Lampad to them, we caught that one terrorist who poisoned hundreds of people for them, we gave Oberyn our spare ships to poor @Mormont's dismay, and we're working to bring Elia back to life. Oh, and now, we're equipping them for one of the most dangerous dungeon delvings they could possibly do.
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I was actually using Braavos and Dorne as examples of good allies that we put work into lol.

I was saying that getting good allies like Braavos and Dorne likely requires that we put effort into them the same way we put effort into those two.

Like, let's use Mantarys as an example.

Yrael would likely help us out if we ran into trouble, but Mantarys is still kinda a shithole, and thus he can't really give us any sort of help.

We never really bothered to do anything with Mantarys, from maybe helping it rebuild to trading with it or attempting to spread a Godswood there or whatever, and thus Yrael is having to slowboat the recovery process and isn't going to be useful for awhile.
 
BeepSmile said:
It looks like Dursal's vote has an offer of + Con on the PfE. I would like to once again state my absolute objection to putting any enchantments on a PfE item.
We got burned by that decision before, on the road to Mantareys.

The only way I'd be for such an offer to anyone would be to sell them a party member's con PfE item and make sutible replacement items.
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So, you are absolutely loath to make Stat + PfE itens, unless we make more of them? I don't understand you here at all.
 
BeepSmile said:
@Duesal @DragonParadox

It looks like Dursal's vote has an offer of + Con on the PfE. I would like to once again state my absolute objection to putting any enchantments on a PfE item.
We got burned by that decision before, on the road to Mantareys.

The only way I'd be for such an offer to anyone would be to sell them a party member's con PfE item and make sutible replacement items.
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@BeepSmile, in the end it'll be Oberyn's risk. But this isn't really that important and I have no stake in this being a Amulet of PfE + Con, so I'll just switch the adding a Con enhancement to the belts.
TotallyNotEvil said:
@Duesal Really, i'd offer to sell him the same thing I want to craft for Bronn: a +3 Adamantine weapon. It bypasses Magic, Silver, Cold Iron and Adamantine DR, which makes it essentially the closest you can get to a permanent universal weapon.

It being a spear also means we can do Changeling for extra versatility, and sell him a crystal of returning.

Much like Bronn, if he has the ability to stab it, he is liable to kill it.
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Can we even make a +3 weapon?

EDIT: Also, do we even have the adamantine to spare?
 
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How much do we need to use for a spear head? If he has the money for a +3 item, and wants it, I say he can comission it and we drop it off later. But considering time cost, there should be a surcharge for such a thing.

Edit: we have so many enemies of such power and reach that trying to keep a monopoly forever in anything is not possible. Including adamantium.
 
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Azel said:
Relath is running major trade operation in MS. That's sadly not true.
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We have no idea how successful he has been. Given his representatives reaction upon seeing Molten Skies, there might be no trade.

TotallyNotEvil said:
@Duesal Really, i'd offer to sell him the same thing I want to craft for Bronn: a +3 Adamantine weapon. It bypasses Magic, Silver, Cold Iron and Adamantine DR, which makes it essentially the closest you can get to a permanent universal weapon.

It being a spear also means we can do Changeling for extra versatility, and sell him a crystal of returning.

Much like Bronn, if he has the ability to stab it, he is liable to kill it.
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That's far too much, in both time and resources. Start with a +1 weapon and upgrade it later.
 
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