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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Maybe worth noting, I think it's possible to trade away most if not all of a Paladins magicky stuff like lay on hands for more mundane flavored options with alt class features.

There's a Complete Champion option that completely tosses away spellcasting for bonus feats, for example. And a ton that trade away things like turn undead and lay on hanfs.

Can probably comb together a knight that way that's better than fighter.
 
Here's a bit about how I see fighting prowess is Westeros:

There are certain plateaus of ability that are difficult or impossible to surpass:

Level 1 to 5: Take a healthy motivated individual and give him the best possible tutors and you get this at most. Ser Richard is in the upper range of this, he was squire to a prince
Level 6 to 10: Harden that individual through years of combat that should by rights have killed him an he might get this far.
Level 11 to 15: Living legends, people like the Sword of the Morning, Baristan the Bold in his heyday of even the Kingslayer
Level 16 to 20: "Divine blessing" range You are incredibly unlikely so see warriors of this stature.
 
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Katsuragi said:
Maybe worth noting, I think it's possible to trade away most if not all of a Paladins magicky stuff like lay on hands for more mundane flavored options with alt class features.

There's a Complete Champion option that completely tosses away spellcasting for bonus feats, for example. And a ton that trade away things like turn undead and lay on hanfs.

Can probably comb together a knight that way that's better than fighter.
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If you trade away all the paladin's magic then you end up with an even worse fighter than a fighter

also, remember that this is not the player character. it is an NPC we lucked out and recruited, and one that won't be leveling up as fast as the MC is.

Your typical thug is probably a commoner with high str and con. Your typical city watch is a low leveled warrior (a nerfed fighter, with no bonus feats). your typical thief is an expert. Actual fighters and rogues do exist, but they are those with talent who are simply better than their expert and warrior counterparts.
This guy has more talent than your typical warrior does, but he is not main character chosen one hero
 
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DragonParadox said:
Here's a bit about how I see fighting prowess is Westeros:

There are certain plateaus of ability that are difficult or impossible to surpass:

Level 1 to 5: Take a healthy motivated individual and give him the best possible tutors and you get this at most. Ser Richard is in the upper range of this, he was squire to a prince
Level 6 to 10: Harden that individual through years of combat that should by rights have killed him an he might get this far.
Level 11 to 15: Living legends, people like the Sword of the Morning, Baristan the Bold in his heyday of even the Kingslayer
Level 16 to 20: "Divine blessing" range You are incredibly unlikely so see warriors of this stature.
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I'd divide that by 2 or at least 1.5. A Level 12/15 will eat Baristan the Bold, Sword of the Morning, and the entire Kingsguard imho. And that is only with equivalent gear. If they go into smiting, alchemy or some other crafting skills that will allow them to create superior gear then its not even a contest.
 
remulian said:
I'd divide that by 2 or at least 1.5. A Level 12/15 will eat Baristan the Bold, Sword of the Morning, and the entire Kingsguard imho. And that is only with equivalent gear. If they go into smiting, alchemy or some other crafting skills that will allow them to create superior gear then its not even a contest.
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Agreed on the gear. Warping realty beats waving sharp metal bits about.

I think level 14-15 is fair for Bary the Ninja Knight all things considered.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Agreed on the gear. Warping realty beats waving sharp metal bits about.

I think level 14-15 is fair for Bary the Ninja Knight all things considered.
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I once read a very convincing article about how Aragorn was level three. Let me see if I can find it.

However, having Viserys as a sorcerer means you'll probably have to up the CR of most NPCs eventually. Otherwise, by mid level he'll curbstomp.

Edit: Correction, he's level five. Article below.

The Alexandrian » D&D: Calibrating Your Expectations
 
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Paloswag said:
However, having Viserys as a sorcerer means you'll probably have to up the CR of most NPCs eventually. Otherwise, by mid level he'll curbstomp.
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Not really. I mean Viserys himself will probably be targeted already by the highly magic sensitive organisations like people who have the Valyrian Magic pointing artifacts (read Citadel), future seeing red priests, warlocks, Ashai, Others and Children. Not Viserys Targeryan but the Sorcerer who is starting to use magic.

Fighting most of them is going to be political past lvl 5 and past lvl 7-10 a magic user should have basically no conventional counter in a fight, unless he is stupid enough to solo a army. So that means that by lvl 7-10 people will very much prefer do anything but fight us directly and start using poison, assassins, ambushes, catpaws, intrigue, massive numerical superiority, millions of gold coins, dragons and other mythical creatures, and various ritual magic bullshit as we progress down the levels.
 
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Paloswag said:
I once read a very convincing article about how Aragorn was level three. Let me see if I can find it.

However, having Viserys as a sorcerer means you'll probably have to up the CR of most NPCs eventually. Otherwise, by mid level he'll curbstomp.

Edit: Correction, he's level five. Article below.

The Alexandrian » D&D: Calibrating Your Expectations
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I sort of agree with it as far as it goes but when you factor in his acts at the Hornburg and in the battle of Minas Tirith you almost have to bump him higher. For instance he repeatedly sallied against an enemy that had overwhelming odds and did not even get a scratch for it.

As for your mid level encounters... Magic is returning in all its terror and wonder.

Remember Warlock Myrcella, Wizard Sam, Druid Arya, and Favored Soul Gendry?

Even beyond that here are things slumbering in the darker corners of the world that the Maesters in their wisdom scoff at.
 
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DragonParadox said:
I sort of agree with it as far as it goes but when you actor in his acts at the Hornburg and in the battle of Minas Tirith you almost have to bump him higher. For repeatedly sallied against an enemy that had overwhelming odds and did not even get a scratch for it.

As for your mid level encounters... Magic is returning in all its terror and wonder.
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I think its just trying to make the point that we base all our power levels on a 1-20 scale because we know 20 is the highest, when if you look at the numbers, a much smaller scale would do. The author brings up how a level 5 blacksmith could easily hit a +19 bonus, which is more than enough for masterwork creations with the potential for legendary quality with a natural 20 (total roll of 39).

It means that the most extraordinary blacksmiths in the real world top out at 5th​ level. Amakuni, the legendary Japanese swordsmith who created the folded-steel technique? 5th​level.
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The same with a level 5 Einstein, who can hit +15 knowledge(physics).

He can casually answer physics-related questions (by taking 10) with a DC of 25. Such questions, according to the PHB description of the Knowledge skill, are among the hardest physics questions known to man. He'll know the answers to the very hardest questions (DC 30) about 75% of the time.
And when he's doing research he'll be able to add the benefits of being able to reference scientific journals (+2 circumstance bonus), gain insight from fellow colleagues (+2 bonus from aid another), use top-of-the-line equipment (+2 circumstance bonus), and similar resources to gain understanding of a problem so intractable that no one has ever understood it before (DC 40+).
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Paloswag said:
I think its just trying to make the point that we base all our power levels on a 1-20 scale, when if you look at the numbers, a much smaller scale would do. The author brings up how a level 5 blacksmith could easily hit a +19 bonus, which is more than enough for masterwork creations with the potential for legendary quality with a natural 20 (total roll of 39).




The same with a level 5 Einstein.
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ASOIAF has feats in combat that are impossible in the real world. Baristan at Duskdale, Jaimie almost cutting his way through to Rob before finally being overwhelmed.
 
BTW can anyone suggest a nerfed wizard, the adept class is not exactly what I am looking for (too divine flavored).

I'm really hoping one exists. I'm not looking forward to trying to design one from scrach.
 
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DragonParadox said:
BTW can anyone suggest a nerfed wizard, the adept class is not exactly what I am looking for (too divine flavored).

I'm really hoping one exists. I'm not looking forward to trying to design one from ccrach.
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Just give him a different spell list, like the bards. He's pretty underpowered as far as casters go. Just have him pick situational spells over the ones PCs would normally take.
 
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Paloswag said:
Just give him a different spell list, like the bards. He's pretty underpowered as far as casters go. Just have him pick situational spells over the ones PCs would normally take.
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I'll probably have to design one myself to simulate the spells available.

I'm more interested in alternative class interpretations and features that are underpowered rather than overpowered.
 
DragonParadox said:
Here's a bit about how I see fighting prowess is Westeros:

There are certain plateaus of ability that are difficult or impossible to surpass:

Level 1 to 5: Take a healthy motivated individual and give him the best possible tutors and you get this at most. Ser Richard is in the upper range of this, he was squire to a prince
Level 6 to 10: Harden that individual through years of combat that should by rights have killed him an he might get this far.
Level 11 to 15: Living legends, people like the Sword of the Morning, Baristan the Bold in his heyday of even the Kingslayer
Level 16 to 20: "Divine blessing" range You are incredibly unlikely so see warriors of this stature.
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Click to shrink...

I feel like the gap between a level 10 and level 5 DnD fighter is way too big for a more realistic feeling setting such as Westeros.

Sure, the gap between me and Conor McGregor is huge, but edged weapons, and armor are huge equalizers- to the point that what you ate in the morning or whether or not you slept in the wrong position can make a difference in an outcome. Jorah Mormont on a good day, for example, unhorsed Barristan Selmy. So guys like Jaime Lannister or Sandor Clegane had fearsome reputations, which certainly helped, but an average knight always had a chance of getting lucky and killing him. Hell that's almost what happened to the Hound. Sure, he was drunk, but there's no way a level 12 fighter loses to a 4 sub level 5 fighters with subpar equipment, even if the level 12 is blackout drunk.
 
Yeangst said:
I feel like the gap between a level 10 and level 5 DnD fighter is way too big for a more realistic feeling setting such as Westeros.

Sure, the gap between me and Conor McGregor is huge, but edged weapons, and armor are huge equalizers- to the point that what you ate in the morning or whether or not you slept in the wrong position can make a difference in an outcome. Jorah Mormont on a good day, for example, unhorsed Barristan Selmy. So guys like Jaime Lannister or Sandor Clegane had fearsome reputations, which certainly helped, but an average knight always had a chance of getting lucky and killing him. Hell that's almost what happened to the Hound. Sure, he was drunk, but there's no way a level 12 fighter loses to a 4 sub level 5 fighters with subpar equipment, even if the level 12 is blackout drunk.
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A level 12 fighter can still rol a natural 1 and with the added state of being blackout drunk he can roll a negative result.
 
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DragonParadox said:
BTW can anyone suggest a nerfed wizard, the adept class is not exactly what I am looking for (too divine flavored).

I'm really hoping one exists. I'm not looking forward to trying to design one from scrach.
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One of the things I have seen is to limit the pseudo wizard to 1 school with the occasional extra spell and some extra goodies for their speciality
by default that already exists for some schools via
Warmage/Beguiler/Dread Necromancers
I have seen some custom classes for the other schools on the order of the stick forums but i don't remember quite where, i can look for it later
 
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[X] Still interested, if undecided.

I have no clue what I want to vote for here, but I'm adding this so that you don't take my lurking for disinterest.
 
I would vote if I had any knowledge about character-building in D&D, no disinterest here, just waiting for the next option I understand.
 
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