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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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das_slash said:
But we are going to use the knightly traditions anyway? we should suggest the basics of an order if they dont come naturally to Waymar, adding a "of the X" to all knights belonging to the order, and a shared Heraldy. kind of like the kingsguard, but with knighthood being granted on joining the order.
edit: faceless'd
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Pretty much this. Feeling up to writing the charter?
I would gladly make the heraldry on the weekend.

@DragonParadox, the Nightwatch arguably counts too.
 
Mormont said:
The issue is tieing the knighthood to the magic. Can we make knights? Yes. Can we ennoble people, including mages? Yes. Okay why must we entangle the ideas. Let one be one and the other be the other where they overlap, like with Waymar, he is both. Ven Diagrams are a thing, and he's at the middle of this one. Any future mages we have don't need to be knights, if they impress us that much ennoble them. If they don't impress us, then why reward them at all?
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I'm not intending to turn every mage into a knight. This order is there to catch people like Waymar who are part of both worlds and not fully part of either.

Enobled wizards get their own thing.
 
Mormont said:
The issue is tieing the knighthood to the magic. Can we make knights? Yes. Can we ennoble people, including mages? Yes. Okay why must we entangle the ideas. Let one be one and the other be the other where they overlap, like with Waymar, he is both. Ven Diagrams are a thing, and he's at the middle of this one. Any future mages we have don't need to be knights, if they impress us that much ennoble them. If they don't impress us, then why reward them at all?
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We are just creating a frame for those we decide to ennoble, we are not giving knighthoods to everyone, but titles and honorifics are things people in westeros know and respect, a "Ser Mageor the wizard" carries more respect than "Mageor the wizard that works for the king".
one we create the order we wont have to treat it on a case by case basis, we can just say "he earned his knighthood, he can now wear the colors of the order and receive lands in blah blah blah"
 
Azel said:
Pretty much this. Feeling up to writing the charter?
I would gladly make the heraldry on the weekend.

@DragonParadox, the Nightwatch arguably counts too.
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Nah, the NW can't be considered a Knightly Order since they induct commoners and non-knights. Hell of the cannon Lord's Commander I can't think of one that was actually a knight. There was Hoare during the conquest, both Jon Snow and the Old Bear followed the old gods*, Qorgyle is dornish so maybe him, there was the Stark kid, and I have one down a rabbit hole. Oops.

*And didn't have Jorah's battlefield knighting

Edit: HAHA :ninja:
 
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Hi @DragonParadox I wanted to ask you a question about the afterlife in the setting. Does the wall of the faithless apply in this setting? Is entry unto the Heavenly realms rely on worship on a good deity or is it one based solely on actions in this quest? I am just curious. If this discussion has happened before or if you have already mentioned the answer or requested this question not be asked I apologize.

It's just that with the number of deities we have met recently and the Abyss gate I was curious.
 
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We don't have to call them knights if that's an issue some of y'all are having.

They could be the Eldritch Guard, the Arcane Brotherhood, the Order of Mysteries, etc.

It all amounts to the same thing, though.
 
Azel said:
I'm not intending to turn every mage into a knight. This order is there to catch people like Waymar who are part of both worlds and not fully part of either.

Enobled wizards get their own thing.
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Then why do we need this? If he falls into the set of people that can get a knighthood anyway, why go through these needless extra steps? Why say A is A and B is B, you can be both A & B unless I think you uber duper special and know your C. What's the point? I honestly can't see any benefit at all to this.
 
Mormont said:
Then why do we need this? If he falls into the set of people that can get a knighthood anyway, why go through these needless extra steps? Why say A is A and B is B, you can be both A & B unless I think you uber duper special and know your C. What's the point? I honestly can't see any benefit at all to this.
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Because vanilla Westeros knights all serve the Seven, swear by them and burn casters at the stake.
You are trying to shoehorn Waymar into a construct that actively tried to kill him.

Edit: Tell me which knight except him is doing alchemy and which mage is fighting with a sword.
 
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Abhishek M said:
Hi @DragonParadox I wanted to ask you a question about the afterlife in the setting. Does the wall of the faithless apply in this setting? Is entry unto the Heavenly realms rely on worship on a good deity or is it one based solely on actions in this quest? I am just curious. If this discussion has happened before or if you have already mentioned the answer or requested this question not be asked I apologize.

It's just that with the number of deities we have met recently and the Abyss gate I was curious.
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The Wall of the faithless is only for Forgotten Realms.
 
Azel said:
Because vanilla Westeros knights all serve the Seven, swear by them and burn casters at the stake.
You are trying to shoehorn Waymar into a construct that actively tried to kill him.

Edit: Tell me which knight except him is doing alchemy and which mage is fighting with a sword.
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So Jorah Mormont supported and worshipped the Seven? Ser Richard is going to oppose our battle with the Seven? Please. The tie between knights and the Seven exists solely in the mind of the respective knight. Some septons will call on it, some knights will listen, and most will continue to do whatever they damn well please.
 
So, basically we want to create a group for magic-using fighters that are nobles simply by enterting the group, even if they weren't before? And the reason to do so is to create a context and rules that define how these persons are to be treated, what their rights are and who has to great whom first?
Integrating them into the existing organization, as a knightly order with specific entry requirements and specific tasks, in addition to those common to all knights, seem like the easiest thing to do that.
 
Mormont said:
So Jorah Mormont supported and worshipped the Seven? Ser Richard is going to oppose our battle with the Seven? Please. The tie between knights and the Seven exists solely in the mind of the respective knight. Some septons will call on it, some knights will listen, and most will continue to do whatever they damn well please.
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In case you haven't noticed, this was a hang-up for Richard for a good long while until he came to terms with our deal with the Old Gods.
 
MTB said:
So, basically we want to create a group for magic-using fighters that are nobles simply by enterting the group, even if they weren't before? And the reason to do so is to create a context and rules that define how these persons are to be treated, what their rights are and who has to great whom first?
Integrating them into the existing organization, as a knightly order with specific entry requirements and specific tasks, in addition to those common to all knights, seem like the easiest thing to do that.
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The existing structure is Seven dominated which makes me very apprehensive of adding to it instead of keeping a healthy seperation, but yeah. That's the gist of it.

Edit: Keep in mind that Mormont wants him to swear to the seven quiet heavily in front of the Old Gods. That's my issue.
Remember: the north has no knights.
 
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Azel said:
The existing structure is Seven dominated which makes me very apprehensive of adding to it instead of keeping a healthy seperation, but yeah. That's the gist of it.

Edit: Keep in mind that Mormont wants him to swear to the seven quiet heavily in front of the Old Gods. That's my issue.
Remember: the north has no knights.
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I suppose I didn't explicitly state it but I mentioned the godswood to allude to the idea of pulling this away from the seven. I'm sure theres a good way to replce their mention or at least make it less explicitly one of their ceremonies.
 
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