[X] Weeding the Garden slightly more
-[X] To those who show psionics
--[X] Let the Inquisition deal with them, perhaps they can even hire some new talent
-[X] To the priests who surrendered
--[X] Try them as cultists and servants of a Forbidden God

-[X] To the sorcerer-smiths
--[X] Induct all of them, their former crimes forgotten //This is with the understanding that the Inquisition is watching, and so is Qyburn.

Sorry, but I don't want priests of outer gods worshipping our friendly maniac here. Even if the Inquistion thinks they are okay, we have no idea how deep some madness might be buried and Qyburn is the last person who needs devoted acolytes, he needs assistants that will report it if he goes beyond what we deem acceptable. He is not one to be stopped by common sense or morals, only by the knowledge that keeping to the (very broad) rules is what keeps him alive and in a very priviledged position to pursue his work.

Edit: Not that I don't like Qyburn, I do.
But we should never forget that he has no line he wouldn't cross and we should not give him the opportunity to do so.
Qyburn can do whatever he wants within the bounds of the law.

If he wants to pursue some off the wall project it's pretty much just a matter of making a sales pitch to Viserys on why it's beneficial to the Imperium, and more likely than not his ideas are worth pursuing. If you're seriously thinking Qyburn needs a minder to constantly watch his every move, you're not being paranoid enough by a longshot.
 
[X] Artemis1992

Yeah, any and all infrastructre needs to be protected as much as possible. Heck once we get Domes up on the moon, we can move infrastructure up there as well, we just need a portal for better logistics.
 
Qyburn can do whatever he wants within the bounds of the law.

If he wants to pursue some off the wall project it's pretty much just a matter of making a sales pitch to Viserys on why it's beneficial to the Imperium, and more likely than not his ideas are worth pursuing. If you're seriously thinking Qyburn needs a minder to constantly watch his every move, you're not being paranoid enough by a longshot.
Look, I think we would support most of his ideas.

But if we give him loyal acolytes we also give him opportunity to pursue those few ideas we might not approve of.
I don't think he needs constant minders, but he definitly does not need large amounts of rope that can be used to hang himself with, because I fear his curiosity will eventually make him try out the knots for a noose.
 
[X] Direct them to get cleansed at the Fount of the Merling King
[X] Try to direct them to mind healers with careful Inquisition oversight
[X] Accept only those who were enemies of the Green Faith into your service
 
Look, I think we would support most of his ideas.

But if we give him loyal acolytes we also give him opportunity to pursue those few ideas we might not approve of.
I don't think he needs constant minders, but he definitly does not need large amounts of rope that can be used to hang himself with, because I fear his curiosity will eventually make him try out the knots for a noose.
This stance is absurd. Either you trust him to be loyal, or you don't. That's what it comes down to when you're dealing with high value assets like goddamn Flesh Forges. In light of every interaction between Qyburn and Viserys, where Viserys has not only approved of all of Qyburn's experiments including the man turning himself into something beyond the Mind Flayers, but also giving him imperial funding to do it? Why on earth would Qyburn start sneaking around behind Viserys' back now to do experiments that according to you would jeopardize everything he's achieved when instead he could just pursue other far more interesting projects with imperial support?

Leaving aside loyalty, he's not a blithering idiot. That's a bad bet and he knows it.

So if you don't trust him, why are we trusting him to be in charge of a Flesh Forge? You can't half ass this. Giving him enough rope to hang himself is not an argument when he could do so much more damage with a Forge at his beck and call than he ever could with a few acolytes following him around.
 
This stance is absurd. Either you trust him to be loyal, or you don't. That's what it comes down to when you're dealing with high value assets like goddamn Flesh Forges. In light of every interaction between Qyburn and Viserys, where Viserys has not only approved of all of Qyburn's experiments including the man turning himself into something beyond the Mind Flayers, but also giving him imperial funding to do it? Why on earth would Qyburn start sneaking around behind Viserys' back now to do experiments that according to you would jeopardize everything he's achieved when instead he could just pursue other far more interesting projects with imperial support?

Leaving aside loyalty, he's not a blithering idiot. That's a bad bet and he knows it.

So if you don't trust him, why are we trusting him to be in charge of a Flesh Forge? You can't half ass this. Giving him enough rope to hang himself is not an argument when he could do so much more damage with a Forge at his beck and call than he ever could with a few acolytes following him around.
I do trust him, generally speaking.

This is a bit hard to explain for me, but I hope it comes over as coherent:

Qyburn is not a perfectly rational actor. He values his science and his self-improvement higher than his life, higher than his sanity.
This is a proven fact, he pursued his studies already back when he knew it could cost him everything, back in the Citadel.
Later on he drastically altered his own mind, essentially destroyed parts of himself for the sake of self-improvement.
Also he risked his life, mind and soul with his transformation.

So, I do trust him to be diligent in his research and I do trust him that he would never try to turn our fleshforges against us.
If only because there is not much to win for him, he does not care for temporal power and he would abhor the demands of rulership even if he somehow conquered a Forge and the area around.

But here's the thing, in his drive he does very likely come upon ideas that Viserys or maybe Vee as the most directly involved person would not approve. Something, just as one example, that would require the creation of sapient test-subjects that exist only to suffer and die in a manner relevant to his research, which is one of the few things Vee would forbid.
And he keeps away from things that are forbidden, because he is smart enough to know that it is not worth it, that the odds of getting away with anything are too far against him. Not out of loyalty, not out of morals, merely out of pragmatism.

Giving him loyal minions that could do some work outside the highly controlled area of our Fleshforges would give him opportunity to pursue an experiment or two without approval. If he is clever about it (and he would be), then he could maybe do something in reach of the Uncertainty Wards and it's unlikely it would be discovered.
So he would be back in the same situation he was in the Citadel (of course in a far better situation in general, but still), he could chase his further perfection and forbidden knowledge at just a relativly low risk of being found out.
Don't you think there's a chance he'd take the risk? Don't you think we should spare him the temptation?
 
I do trust him, generally speaking.

This is a bit hard to explain for me, but I hope it comes over as coherent:

Qyburn is not a perfectly rational actor. He values his science and his self-improvement higher than his life, higher than his sanity.
This is a proven fact, he pursued his studies already back when he knew it could cost him everything, back in the Citadel.
Later on he drastically altered his own mind, essentially destroyed parts of himself for the sake of self-improvement.
Also he risked his life, mind and soul with his transformation.

So, I do trust him to be diligent in his research and I do trust him that he would never try to turn our fleshforges against us.
If only because there is not much to win for him, he does not care for temporal power and he would abhor the demands of rulership even if he somehow conquered a Forge and the area around.
Experiments which he ran by Viserys first. Nothing he did was without a royal seal of approval. So what if he values science above everything else? That doesn't matter for our purposes, because we're the ones funding his science and getting him all the best samples. We're the ones directing his research.
But here's the thing, in his drive he does very likely come upon ideas that Viserys or maybe Vee as the most directly involved person would not approve. Something, just as one example, that would require the creation of sapient test-subjects that exist only to suffer and die in a manner relevant to his research, which is one of the few things Vee would forbid.
And he keeps away from things that are forbidden, because he is smart enough to know that it is not worth it, that the odds of getting away with anything are too far against him. Not out of loyalty, not out of morals, merely out of pragmatism.

Giving him loyal minions that could do some work outside the highly controlled area of our Fleshforges would give him opportunity to pursue an experiment or two without approval. If he is clever about it (and he would be), then he could maybe do something in reach of the Uncertainty Wards and it's unlikely it would be discovered.
So he would be back in the same situation he was in the Citadel (of course in a far better situation in general, but still), he could chase his further perfection and forbidden knowledge at just a relativly low risk of being found out.
Don't you think there's a chance he'd take the risk? Don't you think we should spare him the temptation?
Okay, no. You say Qyburn is pragmatic, but here you say he's bound to engage in the exact opposite of pragmatic behavior. There are very, very few lines that Qyburn knows not to cross. Not because he agrees with them or cares about the ethics, but purely because the people funding his science and providing him with all the resources he could ever dream of are the ones imposing them. This is part of his fealty contract. Do whatever you want, just obey imperial law, and Qyburn has stuck to that just fine.

Also, your vote doesn't fix this by a longshot. If you're seriously afraid of Qyburn doing that, you can't just not give him the acolytes and pat yourself on the back for a job well done. You need to take away his ability to simply create his own utterly loyal minions who are begging to die in the name of science. You need to take away his access to the Forge. If you honestly suspect him of going beyond the bounds of the law, then you can't half ass this and you need to try to figure out how to keep an eye on him. Relying on low level assistants to report him isn't going to work and you know it. Qyburn is so far beyond them it was never a contest.
 
Last edited:
Also, your vote doesn't fix this by a longshot. If you're seriously afraid of Qyburn doing that, can't just not give him the acolytes. You need to take away his ability to simply create his own utterly loyal minions who are begging to die in the name of science. You need to take away his access to the Forge. If you honestly suspect him of going beyond the bounds of the law, then you can't half ass this and you need to try to figure out how to keep an eye on him. Relying on low level assistants to report him isn't going to work and you know it. Qyburn is so far beyond them it was never a contest.
I don't think it's all that likely that he would do something like that, but handing him over people who think he's god is just giving him more opportunity than I am comfortable with.
Everything else he does in Fleshforges follows our protocol, everything there is done with some supervision, both officially and if that should not be enough, then at least through co-workers like Vee, Saenena and the Kyton.
Particularly since the near-disaster with the far-realm infected Fleshcrafter we are paying attention to everything that happens in the forges, we have security measures that account for a head-researcher privatly trying to go beyond the boundaries we set.

So, all that being given I think that under the current, normal circumstances of his employment the chance that he takes the risk of going against our law is so low as to be negligable.
Making him head of a minor religion changes that risk from almost nothing to just low. Low is higher than I am comfortable with.
 
FWIW, I think that Qyburn would discourage them worshipping him as a god, and they would probably comply. The smart ones, at least, but the ones who don't get the memo will probably end up self-selecting themselves out of life.
 
I don't think it's all that likely that he would do something like that, but handing him over people who think he's god is just giving him more opportunity than I am comfortable with.
Everything else he does in Fleshforges follows our protocol, everything there is done with some supervision, both officially and if that should not be enough, then at least through co-workers like Vee, Saenena and the Kyton.
Particularly since the near-disaster with the far-realm infected Fleshcrafter we are paying attention to everything that happens in the forges, we have security measures that account for a head-researcher privatly trying to go beyond the boundaries we set.

So, all that being given I think that under the current, normal circumstances of his employment the chance that he takes the risk of going against our law is so low as to be negligable.
Making him head of a minor religion changes that risk from almost nothing to just low. Low is higher than I am comfortable with.
Here's the thing. If Qyburn wanted it, he could do it on the spot. If he honest to god wanted his own religion it would be trivial for him to make Flesh Forged creatures that worship the ground that he walks on and keep them concealed while he does it. But he doesn't give a shit, because as you noted:
So, I do trust him to be diligent in his research and I do trust him that he would never try to turn our fleshforges against us.
If only because there is not much to win for him, he does not care for temporal power and he would abhor the demands of rulership even if he somehow conquered a Forge and the area around.
He doesn't care about conventional or temporal power. He only cares about science.

So if he's given acolytes, that's just one set among many minions that are already at his disposal, who already do everything he tells them to as a Forgemaster.

If he's honestly going to weigh the pros and cons of crossing the line against the wishes of Viserys, he's pitting the risk of losing everything and turning himself into an imperial fugitive all for the sake of a few breakthroughs vs an eternity of imperial backing and funding at the relatively minor opportunity cost of said breakthroughs all while pursuing science.

He isn't an idiot. He is well aware what the best deal for him is, and it's a better deal than anyone else will ever give him.
FWIW, I think that Qyburn would discourage them worshipping him as a god, and they would probably comply. The smart ones, at least, but the ones who don't get the memo will probably end up self-selecting themselves out of life.
Precisely this.

Qyburn doesn't care about godhood. He wants you to be a competent assistant and not get in the way.
 
What's special about it is that it is likened to the Far realm.
Flumphs! Finally, they are here!

Also, time for some Shub-Niggurath plushies!

[X] Duesal's vote with the addition of assigning Xor to handle the eldritch interpretations

So with this we have:
Lys Fungus Forge, specializing in Plants and Fungi
Gossogos Flesh Forge, specializing in Organics
Qohor Eldritch Forge, specializing in "Oh gods! What in the hells is that?!"
 
Last edited:
Flumphs! Finally, they are here!

Also, time for some Shub-Niggurath plushies!

[X] Duesal's vote with the addition of assigning Xor to handle the eldritch interpretations

So with this we have:
Lys Fungus Forge, specializing in Plants and Fungi
Gossogos Flesh Forge, specializing in Organics
Qohor Eldritch Forge, specializing in "Oh gods! What in the hells is that?!"
There's also the forge for Water Elementals and other Water themed stuff in the Temple of the Merling King. Although we haven't actually used it for anything big yet.
 
@enigma1995, it's also your time now to be part of the story!

Picture this, a long time admirer of Xor who's a gentleman in every sense and is rich enough to get self mods.

Asks to have a Beholder head.

Isn't that just dapper :V
 
[X] Weeding the Garden
-[X] To those who show psionics
--[X] Let the Inquisition deal with them, perhaps they can even hire some new talent
-[X] To the priests who surrendered
--[X] Have the Inquisition vet which ones are suitable, then allow them to present themselves to Qyburn to serve
-[X] To the sorcerer-smiths
--[X] Induct all of them, their former crimes forgotten //This is with the understanding that the Inquisition is watching, and so is Qyburn.
In the interest of not forgetting about it and fucking us all over, I'm adding the following to my vote (thanks to @Goldfish for pointing it out, because it definitely didn't occur to me before you mentioned it):

-[] Redistribute all wards from King's Landing to protect Qohor and the Forge.
Sets by Coverage:
  • Large (x5): 10 kilometer radius (Dispersal, Uncertainty & Phase Wards)
    • Sorcerer's Deep (+50 kilometer Boundary Ward)
    • Volantis (+50 kilometer Boundary Ward)
    • Braavos (+50 kilometer Boundary Ward)
    • King's Landing (+50 kilometer Boundary Ward)
    • Qarth (+20 kilometer Boundary Ward)
King's Landing is a backwater target for enemy bombardment. But Qohor? We are seven levels of fucked if the Forge is bombed. Cue Far Realm taint fed by broken ley lines. What fun, what fun.
 
Last edited:
I don't think it's all that likely that he would do something like that, but handing him over people who think he's god is just giving him more opportunity than I am comfortable with.
Everything else he does in Fleshforges follows our protocol, everything there is done with some supervision, both officially and if that should not be enough, then at least through co-workers like Vee, Saenena and the Kyton.
Particularly since the near-disaster with the far-realm infected Fleshcrafter we are paying attention to everything that happens in the forges, we have security measures that account for a head-researcher privatly trying to go beyond the boundaries we set.

So, all that being given I think that under the current, normal circumstances of his employment the chance that he takes the risk of going against our law is so low as to be negligable.
Making him head of a minor religion changes that risk from almost nothing to just low. Low is higher than I am comfortable with.
Personally, I think that making Qyburn the head of a minor religion really doesn't change anything. There isnt really anymore temptation because the followers don't actually offer him anything he couldn't access himself through multiple flesh forges and mindflayer knowledge. Worst case it makes pursuing experiments we wouldn't approve of a tiny bit more efficient as he doesn't need to create sentient researchers/test subjects from scratch, but on the other hand, it also increases the chances of detection by the Inquisition who will be keeping an eye on them. In any case, the lack of followers wouldn't stop him from doing something we wouldn't approve of if he deemed it important enough.
 
Last edited:
Ooh.
That post with a plushie leads me into a greater idea yet.

Shub-Niggurat can be an indefinitely renewable source of lamb meat.

Arguably less trouble to wash the meat in a spring of Merling King to wash out all of the eyes, teeth and eldritch pus, than trying to detoxify Hydra meat.
Also probably tastier.

That said,
[X] Duesal
 
Hey guys, I think we're forgetting the biggest reason to discourage worshipping of Qyburn. Unless he has the keys to a hitherto unknown afterlife, Yss might get a little peeved. I would make the legit arguement that Yss ranks higher on the list of "associates we wanna keep happy" that Qyburn does. Not to mention Qyburn doesn't really wanna be worshipped so discouraging it doesn't earn a malus with him
 
Ooh.
That post with a plushie leads me into a greater idea yet.

Shub-Niggurat can be an indefinitely renewable source of lamb meat.

Arguably less trouble to wash the meat in a spring of Merling King to wash out all of the eyes, teeth and eldritch pus, than trying to detoxify Hydra meat.
Also probably tastier.

That said,
[X] Duesal
Shub-Niggurath lamb chops. XD
Hey guys, I think we're forgetting the biggest reason to discourage worshipping of Qyburn. Unless he has the keys to a hitherto unknown afterlife, Yss might get a little peeved. I would make the legit arguement that Yss ranks higher on the list of "associates we wanna keep happy" that Qyburn does. Not to mention Qyburn doesn't really wanna be worshipped so discouraging it doesn't earn a malus with him
The thing is Qyburn is gonna be on board with discouraging worship. He doesn't want a cult, he just needs minions.
 
Back
Top