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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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egoo said:
Have we ever used Garin for solo infiltration?
That's the only situation where a straight bonus to Stealth would apply in relevance.
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It would also apply when he sneaks up to someone for a Sneak Attack (which is mechanically very relevant).
It did make a difference in bringing Lanna so far down she falls to a single bolt afterwards, in just one attack.

His stealth is very applicable even on larger battlefields.
 
Eh.
Mechanically we always on top of enemies, through wbl-o-mancy.
I see no point in using Mythic Paths to empower the characters even more.

I'm in for fluffy and/or Empire-helpful stuff.
 
I was thinking about our enemies attacking the imperium when i remembered that the fifteenth god was serving asmodeous
I wonder if asmy plans to attack our realm with all the mutated monsters from valyria with the slave legions of ghis alongside a host of devils

I know divination ruled out this during the reconquest but i wonder if this will happen after we consolidate westeros
 
egoo said:
Have we ever used Garin for solo infiltration?
That's the only situation where a straight bonus to Stealth would apply in relevance.
Even one this big. The problem of "army moves with the speed of the slowest unit', here.

We are even less likely to have him sneaking around now, that Westeros is done.
He's ought be getting stuff that is helpful in leading the Inquisition, not the stuff making him personally marginally better, imo.
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Display of Dexterity would be a great addition to Garin's DEX-based build, not just for his stealth.

Garin is built around stealth, from being able to Sneak Attack to being able to hide from beings to whom he would normally stand out like a candle in an otherwise unlit room. He can even use the Hide in Plain Sight ability, which is basically <Ninja Vanish!> without casting a spell or using a smoke bomb. It makes sense for his legend to develop in such a way as to further enhance this aspect of his abilities.

That said, I would rather his first Mythic rank be something else, like @Crake's Darkmark idea or the Supreme Stealth option which DP has ruled would let him hide from Lifesense, an otherwise very difficult ability to overcome and one likely fairly common among the Others.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Some Efreeti Formations:
NameIDDescriptionLand SpeedAir SpeedManeuverabilityReadinessOrganizationReorganizationAttack_PhysicalAttack_DeathAttack_PsychicDefense_PhysicalDefense_DeathDefense_Psychic
MamelukeMamelukeSlave-Soldiers of the Brazen Throne3-140904025010,200,2
Eternal GuardEternal_GuardEfreeti and Asura, immortal soldiers of the Sultan3?80608037110,50,4
0,4
Iron GuardIron_GuardGiants in service of the Brazen Throne3
-1		6060
60		370
0		0,60,20,2
Burning DervishesDervishesFanatic non-Efreeti Genie-kin3-160808046010,20,10,3

Mamelukes:
Various slaves of the Efreeti, not as disciplined as regular armies, but well-equipped due to the City's immense industrial capacity. Attack is as good as our Legion's due to natural abilities of the various outsider and some mages propably being present.

Eternal Guard:
Efreeti and Asura, all of them have higher HD, higher strenght and constitution than any human army could have, as well as common SLA's and more than a few mages in support.
To be honest, we can only hope that we never meet those in serious numbers, not without equal armies of Shaitan on our side.
@Azel Don't know what to put for air-speed, the Efreeti all have some, though not fast.

Iron Guard:
Mostly Fire Giants, but also others, up to and including some Rune Giant officers. Between their immense strenght and good equipment I've given them high stats in many areas (where the Eternal Guard's Attack comes partially from magic, this is mostly physical) and though they are somewhat less disciplined than the Eternal Guard they are still drilled hard, resulting in decent organisation and maneuverability.

Burning Dervishes:
Fanatical Janni, Dervishes and Ifrit, raised to view the Sultan as their god and master.
Very high combat-morale, good quipment from the Brazen Forges, but not much tougher than most mortals.
Many fliers among them, but not all, so no air-speed on a strategic level.


All these stats are made under the assumtion that only the regularly integrated battlemages are in the army-groups, if the Brazen Throne actually sends out their mage-orders in force to support a campaign, and they in turn bring their Golems, these stats would have to be adjusted upwards by a significant degree.

Also this is all just my interpretation, if you think certain values should be different, say something.
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Air-speed doesn't really make sense for the Eternal Guard, since they are too slow to move entire provinces in mere hours. Maybe that needs revising later, but for now I'd leave it at -1.
Also made some Salamandar Auxilliaries since they felt missing from this batch.

NameIDDescriptionLand SpeedAir SpeedManeuverabilityReadinessOrganizationReorganizationAttack_PhysicalAttack_DeathAttack_PsychicDefense_PhysicalDefense_DeathDefense_Psychic
Basic LegionLegionAn Imperial Legion3-160806035000,200,3
LegionLegion_ISAn Imperial Legion equipped with Imperial Steel weapons.3-160806036000,20,10,3
Advanced LegionLegion_IS_CasterAn Imperial Legion equipped with Imperial Steel weapons and a integrated force of battlemages.3-160806037110,30,20,4
Shambling UndeadUndead_BasicA force of undead consisting mostly of zombies, skeletons and a few minor, intelligent undead such as wraiths that lead the mob.2-1301002053300,50,90,9
SkumSkumSkum2-130603013010,200
SahuaginSahuaginSahuagin3-150604024010,30,10,1
IllithidIllithidA large number of Illithid with fleshforged bodyguards, such as highly advanced Sahuagin, Chuuls or similar.3-180308033160,20,40,8
Lesser Devil HostDevil_Host_LesserLow-tier devils driven before a smaller number of Legion and Bearded Devils, with a few Bone Devils mixed in as commanders.3-130904023110,60,10,8
Devil HostDevil_HostA formation mostly of Barbazu and Merregon, all of which are highly disciplined and can teleport (though very limited in the of Merregons), meaning high maneuverability and organisation. Attack comes from hitting with superhuman strenght and having a few blocks of devils with Hellfire Crossbows.3-180707035110,60,20,4
Greater Devil HostDevil_Host_GreaterA formation of Blood Reavers, Furies and maybe the occasional Gelugon and Cornugon as officers.31000100408036120,70,50,5
Dothraki GhoulsDothraki_DeadA group of risen Dothraki, nearly feral but still somewhat cunning.5-160803034100,20,90,9
Dothraki AuxillariesDothraki_ImpImperial Dothraki, who have been trained and armored.4-170605025000,200,2
MamelukeMamelukeSlave-soldiers of the Brazen Throne.3-140904025010,200,2
Eternal_GuardEternal_GuardEfreeti and Asura, immortal soldiers of the Sultan of Brass.3-180608037110,50,40,4
Iron GuardIron_GuardGiants in the service of the Brazen Throne.3-160606037000,60,20,2
Burning DervishesDervishesFanatic non-Efreeti Genie-kin serving the Brazen Throne.3-160808046010,20,10,3
Salamander AuxilliariesSalamanderA host of Salamanders, which can be found fighting alongside many different armies.3-160806026000,30,10,1
1 vs 1LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_GreaterDothraki_DeadDothraki_ImpMamelukeEternal_GuardIron_GuardDervishesSalamander
Legion0-0,14-0,5110,17-1-0,07-0,33-110,120,17-1-0,2-0,5-0,14
Legion_IS0,140-0,25110,5-1-0,11-0,2-110,170,25-1-0,17-0,170,09
Legion_IS_Caster0,50,250111-0,21-0,12-0,25111-0,2-0,080,120,2
Undead_Basic-1-1-100,330,2-10,1-1-10,2-1-0,25-1-1-1-1
Skum-1-1-1-0,330-0,5-1-0,5-1-1-0,25-1-1-1-1-1-1
Sahuagin-0,17-0,5-1-0,20,50-1-0,17-1-10,17-0,170,12-1-1-1-0,5
Illithid110,2111010,14-0,12111-0,0910,171
Devil_Host_Lesser0,070,11-1-0,10,50,17-10-1-10,140,110,14-1-1-10,11
Devil_Host0,330,20,12111-0,1410-0,14111-0,110,110,120,2
Devil_Host_Greater110,251110,1210,1401110,120,330,21
Dothraki_Dead-1-1-1-0,20,25-0,17-1-0,14-1-10-0,33-0,2-1-1-1-1
Dothraki_Imp-0,12-0,17-1110,17-1-0,11-1-10,3300,12-1-0,5-1-0,17
Mameluke-0,17-0,25-10,251-0,12-1-0,14-1-10,2-0,120-1-0,5-1-0,25
Eternal_Guard110,21110,0910,11-0,1211100,250,171
Iron_Guard0,20,170,08111-11-0,11-0,3310,50,5-0,2500,090,14
Dervishes0,50,17-0,12111-0,171-0,12-0,2111-0,17-0,0900,14
Salamander0,14-0,09-0,2110,5-1-0,11-0,2-110,170,25-1-0,14-0,140

5 vs 5LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_GreaterDothraki_DeadDothraki_ImpMamelukeEternal_GuardIron_GuardDervishesSalamander
Legion0-0,14-0,5110,17-1-0,07-0,33-110,140,17-1-0,2-0,5-0,14
Legion_IS0,140-0,25110,33-10,11-0,2-110,170,2-1-0,17-0,17-0,1
Legion_IS_Caster0,50,250111-0,21-0,12-0,25111-0,2-0,080,110,2
Undead_Basic-1-1-100,33-0,2-10,1-1-1-0,2-1-1-1-1-1-1
Skum-1-1-1-0,330-0,33-1-0,5-1-1-0,25-1-1-1-1-1-1
Sahuagin-0,17-0,33-10,20,330-1-0,17-1-10,2-0,170,08-1-1-1-0,33
Illithid110,2111010,14-0,11111-0,10,50,171
Devil_Host_Lesser0,07-0,11-1-0,10,50,17-10-1-10,140,10,17-1-1-1-0,11
Devil_Host0,330,20,12111-0,1410-0,14111-0,110,110,120,2
Devil_Host_Greater110,251110,1110,1401110,110,330,21
Dothraki_Dead-1-1-10,20,25-0,2-1-0,14-1-10-0,33-0,25-1-1-1-1
Dothraki_Imp-0,14-0,17-1110,17-1-0,1-1-10,3300,12-1-0,33-1-0,17
Mameluke-0,17-0,2-111-0,08-1-0,17-1-10,25-0,120-1-0,5-1-0,25
Eternal_Guard110,21110,110,11-0,1111100,250,171
Iron_Guard0,20,170,08111-0,51-0,11-0,3310,330,5-0,2500,080,14
Dervishes0,50,17-0,11111-0,171-0,12-0,2111-0,17-0,0800,14
Salamander0,140,1-0,2110,33-10,11-0,2-110,170,25-1-0,14-0,140
 
@Azel
As an idea, if I wanted to bring in the Efreeti Mage-Orders I would not make them discrete formations due to a lack of numbers, but rather a template that can be added to other Efreeti armies.
Do you think something like that could work?


NameIDDescriptionLand SpeedAir SpeedManeuverabilityReadinessOrganizationReorganizationAttack_PhysicalAttack_DeathAttack_PsychicDefense_PhysicalDefense_DeathDefense_Psychic
Brass-shapersBrassshapersA delegation of mages from the Brass Shapers, bringing some of their Golems and Undead with them+0+0-10+10+0+1+2+3+1+0,2+0,2+0,1
Here representet a delegation of the Brass Shapers.
Adding their entourage to an existing army messes up the well-trained maneuvers a bit, lowering maneuverability, but adding some durability in form of readiness.

They slightly increase Reorganisation as they can help an army reform after difficulties (for example by raising dead Officers or making examples of deserters).
They give a massive increase through the attacks, as skilled Transmuters and Necromancer, as well as physical damage and some fear-effects from their creations.
Similar reasons for buffing defences.

If such a template-adding works you could also consider it for smaller Imperial Units, like using Warbeasts, Griffin-Knights oreven Praetorians in support of a regular Legion.
 
Artemis1992 said:
@Azel
As an idea, if I wanted to bring in the Efreeti Mage-Orders I would not make them discrete formations due to a lack of numbers, but rather a template that can be added to other Efreeti armies.
Do you think something like that could work?


NameIDDescriptionLand SpeedAir SpeedManeuverabilityReadinessOrganizationReorganizationAttack_PhysicalAttack_DeathAttack_PsychicDefense_PhysicalDefense_DeathDefense_Psychic
Brass-shapersBrassshapersA delegation of mages from the Brass Shapers, bringing some of their Golems and Undead with them+0+0-10+10+0+1+2+3+1+0,2+0,2+0,1
Here representet a delegation of the Brass Shapers.
Adding their entourage to an existing army messes up the well-trained maneuvers a bit, lowering maneuverability, but adding some durability in form of readiness.

They slightly increase Reorganisation as they can help an army reform after difficulties (for example by raising dead Officers or making examples of deserters).
They give a massive increase through the attacks, as skilled Transmuters and Necromancer, as well as physical damage and some fear-effects from their creations.
Similar reasons for buffing defences.

If such a template-adding works you could also consider it for smaller Imperial Units, like using Warbeasts, Griffin-Knights oreven Praetorians in support of a regular Legion.
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For the time being I'd bulk them out with Constructs and Undead to make them a proper unit. Templating is something I have considered, but that's one of those really far off ideas, if I'm going to go for it at all.
 
Azel said:
For the time being I'd bulk them out with Constructs and Undead to make them a proper unit. Templating is something I have considered, but that's one of those really far off ideas, if I'm going to go for it at all.
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I mean, it wouldn't have to be done in the mechanical solution, it's just a tool for DP to play around with in the narrative, without ahving to make up new units (like Efreeti-army with massive mage-support) each time seperatly.

The template can be added by hand, which is less effort than the five new units would be otherwise.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I mean, it wouldn't have to be done in the mechanical solution, it's just a tool for DP to play around with in the narrative, without ahving to make up new units (like Efreeti-army with massive mage-support) each time seperatly.

The template can be added by hand, which is less effort than the five new units would be otherwise.
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Without having the the altered units in the solution, there's no way to run the battle with them though. It would be a pain in the ass to even try to run the battle system by hand.
 
Azel said:
Without having the the altered units in the solution, there's no way to run the battle with them though. It would be a pain in the ass to even try to run the battle system by hand.
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I mean someone could add the template by hand before the mechanical resolution kicks in, which is less of a pain in the ass I think?

Edit: By someone I mean me, or DP if he plans the enemies forces, not necessarily you.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
I mean someone could add the template by hand before the mechanical resolution kicks in, which is less of a pain in the ass I think?

Edit: By someone I mean me, or DP if he plans the enemies forces, not necessarily you.
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That's functionally no different than designing a new unit then.

I'll have to think about this at a later point. My worry is that too much templating might break things, since it suddenly becomes insanely hard to balance units. You no longer have to balance a unit alone, but that unit and every possible permutation of templates you would add to it. Hence me making three different Legions instead of going for the templating solution.
 
Azel said:
That's functionally no different than designing a new unit then.

I'll have to think about this at a later point. My worry is that too much templating might break things, since it suddenly becomes insanely hard to balance units. You no longer have to balance a unit alone, but that unit and every possible permutation of templates you would add to it. Hence me making three different Legions instead of going for the templating solution.
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I see your point.

One could limit it, saying that it is logistically too problematic to add more than one template to any army.
It would in fact be difficult, you have to deal with people outside the usual chain of command, the normal maneuver-training and all that. At the same time you have to make sure that any mage-additions can stay in reasonably save positions, that any warbeasts are fed and tightly controlled, that nobody/nothing panics from fighting next to monsters, etc...

Would that leave things easy enough to keep track of, in terms of balance?
 
Artemis1992 said:
I see your point.

One could limit it, saying that it is logistically too problematic to add more than one template to any army.
It would in fact be difficult, you have to deal with people outside the usual chain of command, the normal maneuver-training and all that. At the same time you have to make sure that any mage-additions can stay in reasonably save positions, that any warbeasts are fed and tightly controlled, that nobody/nothing panics from fighting next to monsters, etc...

Would that leave things easy enough to keep track of, in terms of balance?
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As I said, I need to think about it.

At some point I was considering to have armies stitched together out of company sized forces, which would allow much greater flexibility at the cost of heightened complexity. On the other hand, that might just be kicking the problem down one level of abstraction for no gain.

I don't want to make spur of the moment decisions on something that might turn into a giant pile of work.
 
Someone would have to dig up the mercenary companies we grabbed at PoW.
 
Azel said:
As I said, I need to think about it.

At some point I was considering to have armies stitched together out of company sized forces, which would allow much greater flexibility at the cost of heightened complexity. On the other hand, that might just be kicking the problem down one level of abstraction for no gain.

I don't want to make spur of the moment decisions on something that might turn into a giant pile of work.
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Sure, we've got time, take it.
No stress.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Mar 11, 2021 at 5:47 PM, finished with 66 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] The Lion is dead
    -[X] The quickest way (Brain Spider or Scribe's Binding) to learn from Tywin Lannister's head is to answer the following questions:
    --[X] Whether he has plans in place for the event of his capture, such as suicidal orders to mind-controlled lords and mages.
    --[X] What they are based on and how to remove mind control from the lords.
    --[X] What is the basis and how to remove the magic oath of mages so that they can surrender.
    -[X] Further actions of the troops:
    --[X] 100 Praetori, the Warstriders and all flesh forged creatures will reinforce the undead currently holding the Gates
    --[X] 100 Praetori will stay in Casterly Rock
    --[X] 200 Praetori will move to Lannisport and take over its defenses once relevant intel on Geasa has been extracted from Tywin.
    -[X] Afterwards, Tywin, Gerion and Lanna will be transferred through the Gate to SD and given into Bloodravens care for mindreading.
    [X] The Lion is dead
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@DragonParadox I do not know how this happened, but you do not have the correct final plan. Here is the actual vote count:
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Mar 12, 2021 at 7:40 AM, finished with 139 posts and 16 votes.
  • [X] The Lion is dead
    -[X] Check Tywin for hidden magic effects, amulets, and artifacts.
    -[X] The quickest way (Brain Spider or Scribe's Binding) to learn from Tywin Lannister's head is to answer the following questions:
    --[X] Whether he has plans in place for the event of his capture, such as suicidal orders to mind-controlled lords and mages.
    --[X] What they are based on and how to remove mind control from the lords.
    --[X] What is the basis and how to remove the magic oath of mages so that they can surrender.
    -[X] Further actions of the troops:
    --[X] 100 Praetori, the Warstriders and all flesh forged creatures will reinforce the undead currently holding the Gates
    --[X] 100 Praetori will stay in Casterly Rock
    --[X] 200 Praetori will move to Lannisport and take over its defenses once relevant intel on Geasa has been extracted from Tywin.
    -[X] Afterwards, Tywin, Gerion and Lanna will be transferred through the Gate to SD and given into Bloodravens care for mindreading.
    -[X] All captured Lannisters are kept unconscious and bottled as soon as possible. This form of captivity will continue until we can remove the Lannister binding to Tywin.
    [X] The Lion is dead
Click to expand...
 
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Part MMMDCCIX: Of Golden Chains
  • Threadmarks
    • Of Golden Chains ​

    First Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

    "So that's it then..." Dany looks down on the unconscious form of Tywin Lannister, locked up in the dreary environs of his own dungeons for now with as much hate and disgust as you have ever seen twisting her features. "There is no way to take off the damn enchantments short of chasing every one of them down and using a spell of the Fifth Circle. If he had put as much effort into actually fighting us as he did in enslaving his own mages to his will he might have... well, not won, but at least not lost so badly as to find himself here."

    All lords of the Westerlands and all Golden Shields who are under geas are commanded to 'resist the invaders at all cost and by any means, giving all aid to the rightful heir of House Lannister' in the event of Tywin's death or capture. They are also not to accept any countermanding of that command from his lips or those of anyone who they think might have been compromised by enchantment or willing collaboration with the enemy. Effectively it is a scorched earth command as sure as if he had said 'burn the fields and poison the wells', and in the case of the mages at least you fear they could do much worse if they went to ground.

    The one saving grace of the order is the fact of the whole command is that many lords and ladies will interpret a command to work against the invaders as one to offer false oath and then 'support the true heir of house Lannister' or broadly resist. If you can get into a room with a lord or lady under the premise of swearing an oath you can break the enchantment so that they may swear true, but the same cannot be said for the mages.

    "Wait," Maelor cuts off your thoughts. "Who would be the true heir with this son of a bitch in our hands? The bastard boy in King's Landing?"

    "Tywin Lannister had three children and now he has but one, the boy Tyrion..."

    "The dwarf?" Ser Richard asks surprised, and little wonder. The Old Lion's disdain of his youngest son is practically legendary, enough so that it was known not just at court but in the streets. There are songs about it, about the only songs of ill will about any Lannisters that most smallfolk in places like King's Landing would dare to sing.

    "Tywin is in no position to decide what is and is not a rightful lord right now, it is up to the decision of the lords, and if you follow common practice for inheritance it's the boy before any other heirs," you note. "He is legitimate, unlike that bastard of Gerion's we heard of a while back. You could, I suppose, make a case for Tygett's son, but he is in custody by now also so even if they wanted to pledge to one boy over another they would not have the chance."

    "So if we find him and convince him to break the spell we've cut the knot," Dany interjects, with a tired but genuine smile. "Should be easy enough seeing as he hates his father."

    You shake your head, recalling what you had seen in the mind of the fallen Lord of the Westerlands. "No, the curse cannot be removed, it comes undone by itself when you believe yourself to be so loyal to House Lannister that you will not need it, when it becomes less restraint and more hindrance."

    "But then what is to stop yourself or someone else from casting a spell that would make you feel like you are genuinely loyal and then once the curse is broken let it fade?" Lya brings up the obvious loophole.

    "You can't be under any sort of spell when the geas comes undone," you reply. You had seen their early experiments, the effects had been... gruesome. Minds were not meant to twist in the way they had been forced. "Not even the Illithid mentalists were able to thread the needle, at least as far as Tywin here knows. It is a chain that comes undone when it is no longer needed and there is no other key to it."

    "Other than just matching spell against spell," Lya reminds you. "A Fifth Circle curse breaking is more than we can do with low ritual, but what about Zathir?"

    "He is either particularly well-suited to the task or particularly ill-suited," you answer, pondering glimpses of a cave shot through with silver. "They used... perverted rather, his old shrine for the purpose. Obedience for knowledge, that is how the lords were bound too. Want to know what a Deep One is? Come down into the caves and Lanna will tell you. You just need to swear this one small oath, not that different from what you swore before. We could just break the altar of course, but not one in a thousand of those affected would keep their sanity."

    "Were Lanna and Gerion themselves bound like that as well?" Dany asks dubiously. Unlike the mostly harmless lord of Casterly Rock his younger brother and his sorceress bride had remained magically bound for now.

    "No, as he was starting to get desperate. A few months ago he decided to sacrifice the altar itself to the Hive in exchange for the Bloodline Curse we saw on Tygett. It drastically slowed down recruitment of the Golden Shields since they could no longer be bound with the initial curse and was the reason why we have found only one lord outside the Westerlands bound to the Lannister will, and even that one was bound through a formian agent."

    What next?

    [] Write in

    OOC: So yeah, Lanna was direct party to using the altar of a god of freedom to magically bind those of her fellow mages who were not intrinsically loyal to House Lannister and then Tywin screwed her over when he realized that he could not control her if she decided to defect by turning to the formians. As to why the formians dealt with him well, Tywin is not a very good ant-whisperer, he just knew they did and was glad for it.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • DragonParadox said:
    OOC: So yeah Lanna was direct party to using the altar of a god of freedom to magically bind those of her fellow mages who were not intrinsically loyal to House Lannister and then Tywin screwed her over when he realized that he could not control her if she decided to defect by turning to the formians
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    They screwed with best Quotl.

    Someone rev up the blender, the Old Gods are eating good tonight.
     
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