Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Future enemies learning that destroying the McGuffin Blade requires killing a mythic true dragon archmage:
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The true DragonParadox all along: Killing Viserys requires destroying Oathkeeper.Future enemies learning that destroying the McGuffin Blade requires killing a mythic true dragon archmage:
Thank god that the inevitables are all dead, pretty sure that we'd be able to hear their heads explode from the prime material if we somehow pulled that off.
- Location
- Germany
Looks really good, with the higher number of Greater Devil Hosts they can make for fast, crushing victories in individual battles.
If I had one thing to say that's strange it is that they get to battle the Skum and Sahaguin again and again without the Illithids intervening. Those are propably mobile enough that they should be able to get there and deal some damage before their meatshields are all dead.
For all other cases it's quite realistic that they can't reinforce attacked allies in the time it takes for the Devils to strike and run.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
That is a problem. On a tactical level it's not a big deal, but if the enemy is doing nothing but denying you battle and whittling away at you at their leisure, that limits your options severely. I would say that the air force limits protracted engagements with the Legion to 1 hour or less, but that's ample time to accomplish a mission. No, what you need for entire hosts of teleporting devils is something that has a modicum of similar mobility, and then nothing but hard points for Legions. Those can be made easily with Titan's Tools, forcing any skirmishing attacker to pick between hard targets and being chased by more mobile forces like Praetorians.
I did not see it before, sorry. In answer to the question yeah I'm fine with it. Lifesense is very good for finding people, but when you are a legend of stealth you should be able to hide from it. Mind he would still have to do a roll with his insane hide bonus so if something is somehow as good at finding people as he is at hiding he could be found
- Location
- Germany
The Illithidae occasionally do end up in battle with their chaff (see Tick 29), though they usually just bail on them, since that one Illithidae unit can't stand up to all those Devils coming in. There are a few more instances of this happening in the Ticks that I had to cut for brevety, but overall the Illithidae just rolled pretty crap for joining battles in the example I ran.
Overall, the force composition there is just for testing. Five Greater Hosts are just far stronger than anything the other factions got on the field.
Pretty much. The solution against ultra-mobile enemy forces is to have your own ultra-mobile forces that can respond to them.
The system already allows for those to clash with each other in random areas of mutual coverage even, not just in their home provinces.
I just don't have any stats for other of those units yet.
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
...So, did we actually find Tyrion during the raid on Casterly Rock?
I mean, I'm sure it's no big deal. He's just the last heir of a formerly great house that practically ruled all of Westeros, which was only brought low by the outrage against the vices of the last lord. Now the people who killed his father are the rulers of Westeros, while he has to go into hiding in far off lands, slowly building up his magic and wondering if he may ever restore his heritage and get revenge on the man who wiped out his family.
Like, when has someone like that ever been a problem for anyone else?
I mean, I'm sure it's no big deal. He's just the last heir of a formerly great house that practically ruled all of Westeros, which was only brought low by the outrage against the vices of the last lord. Now the people who killed his father are the rulers of Westeros, while he has to go into hiding in far off lands, slowly building up his magic and wondering if he may ever restore his heritage and get revenge on the man who wiped out his family.
Like, when has someone like that ever been a problem for anyone else?
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
One thing worth mentioning, while it's true that we have a strategic response to skirmishing (air transit), we also are gaining a Tactical-scale response to devil raids too. Lya's teleportation chamber will allow strike teams of Praetorians to be TP'd out to hot-zones all over a battle-scape.
Technically it could also be used for deep-strikes.
- Location
- Germany
I'd rather keep that as a purely strategical movement for balance purposes. I've limited the Devils range from "infinite" to "long" for the same reason.
- Location
- Germany
What precisly does Reoganisation mean in-game?
The ability to recover from losses to Organisation only after a battle, or also during a battle?
The ability to recover from losses to Organisation only after a battle, or also during a battle?
| Name | ID | Description | Speed | Maneuverability | Readiness | Organization | Reorganization | Attack_Physical | Attack_Death | Attack_Psychic | Defense_Physical | Defense_Death | Defense_Psychic |
| Basic Legion | Legion | An Imperial Legion | 3 | 60 | 80 | 60 | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0,2 | 0 | 0,3 |
- Location
- Germany
After. Each tick, after the skirmish phase, a unit regains a random amount of Org between 0 and their ReOrg value, potentially lowered if the unit has taken Readiness damage.
- Location
- Germany
How about some Horsefuckers, for an example of cavalry-only armies?
Dothraki Ghouls:
We've seen that some of the Khalasars killed by the Sarnori Undead have in return risen as Ghouls, perpetuating that circle of violence, while also being a danger to everyone around them, as Dothraki usually are.
Decent maneuverability, but low organisation, as soon as blood is spilled in battle they'll be even less controlled than usual, more driven by hunger.
High Speed, as they are riding fast and are totally tireless.
Mediocre attack, all savagery but no great equipment, similar to Sahaguin.
Terrible physical defence (unarmored Dothraki Screamer, a tiny bit of Natural Armor as Ghouls doesn't change that.
High other defences, for being Undead.
Rhango's Dothraki:
Similar attack and defence as a basic Legion due to our equipment and Rhango beating the concept of Armor into them.
One point higher speed due everyone being mounted.
Somewhat less disciplined than even our basic Legion, particularly with lower Reorganisation as they can't get back in good order after the loss of officers and veterans as easily as our troops could.
| Name | ID | Description | Speed | Maneuverability | Readiness | Organization | Reorganization | Attack_Physical | Attack_Death | Attack_Psychic | Defense_Physical | Defense_Death | Defense_Psychic |
| Dothraki Ghouls | Dothraki_Dead | A group of risen Dothraki, nearly feral but still somewhat cunning | 5 | 60 | 80 | 30 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0,1 | 0,9 | 0,9 |
| Dothraki Auxillaries | Dothraki_Imp | Our Dothraki, improved and armored | 4 | 70 | 60 | 50 | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0,2 | 0 | 0,2 |
Dothraki Ghouls:
We've seen that some of the Khalasars killed by the Sarnori Undead have in return risen as Ghouls, perpetuating that circle of violence, while also being a danger to everyone around them, as Dothraki usually are.
Decent maneuverability, but low organisation, as soon as blood is spilled in battle they'll be even less controlled than usual, more driven by hunger.
High Speed, as they are riding fast and are totally tireless.
Mediocre attack, all savagery but no great equipment, similar to Sahaguin.
Terrible physical defence (unarmored Dothraki Screamer, a tiny bit of Natural Armor as Ghouls doesn't change that.
High other defences, for being Undead.
Rhango's Dothraki:
Similar attack and defence as a basic Legion due to our equipment and Rhango beating the concept of Armor into them.
One point higher speed due everyone being mounted.
Somewhat less disciplined than even our basic Legion, particularly with lower Reorganisation as they can't get back in good order after the loss of officers and veterans as easily as our troops could.
- Location
- France
@Crake, @Goldfish, can I really not convince you that a +20 is a great Mythic power? Sure it's not flashy, but it also allows Garin to confidently attempt stealth against high-level Mythic opponents. His Stealth is great, but it all too often relies on opposed skill checks (the optimal decision, but still) and we should make sure he can make them reliably against level-equivalent foes, or all too common CR-equivalent foes with a stupid number of racial HD and Listen as a class skill.
- Location
- Germany
Much appreciated!
| Name | ID | Description | Land Speed | Air Speed | Maneuverability | Readiness | Organization | Reorganization | Attack_Physical | Attack_Death | Attack_Psychic | Defense_Physical | Defense_Death | Defense_Psychic |
| Basic Legion | Legion | An Imperial Legion | 3 | -1 | 60 | 80 | 60 | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0,2 | 0 | 0,3 |
| Legion | Legion_IS | An Imperial Legion equipped with Imperial Steel weapons. | 3 | -1 | 60 | 80 | 60 | 3 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0,2 | 0,1 | 0,3 |
| Advanced Legion | Legion_IS_Caster | An Imperial Legion equipped with Imperial Steel weapons and a integrated force of battlemages. | 3 | -1 | 60 | 80 | 60 | 3 | 7 | 1 | 1 | 0,3 | 0,2 | 0,4 |
| Shambling Undead | Undead_Basic | A force of undead consisting mostly of zombies, skeletons and a few minor, intelligent undead such as wraiths that lead the mob. | 2 | -1 | 30 | 100 | 20 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0,5 | 0,9 | 0,9 |
| Skum | Skum | Skum | 2 | -1 | 30 | 60 | 30 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0,2 | 0 | 0 |
| Sahuagin | Sahuagin | Sahuagin | 3 | -1 | 50 | 60 | 40 | 2 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 0,3 | 0,1 | 0,1 |
| Illithid | Illithid | A large number of Illithid with fleshforged bodyguards, such as highly advanced Sahuagin, Chuuls or similar. | 3 | -1 | 80 | 30 | 80 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 6 | 0,2 | 0,4 | 0,8 |
| Lesser Devil Host | Devil_Host_Lesser | Low-tier devils driven before a smaller number of Legion and Bearded Devils, with a few Bone Devils mixed in as commanders. | 3 | -1 | 30 | 90 | 40 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0,6 | 0,1 | 0,8 |
| Devil Host | Devil_Host | A formation mostly of Barbazu and Merregon, all of which are highly disciplined and can teleport (though very limited in the of Merregons), meaning high maneuverability and organisation. Attack comes from hitting with superhuman strenght and having a few blocks of devils with Hellfire Crossbows. | 3 | -1 | 80 | 70 | 70 | 3 | 5 | 1 | 1 | 0,6 | 0,2 | 0,4 |
| Greater Devil Host | Devil_Host_Greater | A formation of Blood Reavers, Furies and maybe the occasional Gelugon and Cornugon as officers. | 3 | 1000 | 100 | 40 | 80 | 3 | 6 | 1 | 2 | 0,7 | 0,5 | 0,5 |
| Dothraki Ghouls | Dothraki_Dead | A group of risen Dothraki, nearly feral but still somewhat cunning. | 5 | -1 | 60 | 80 | 30 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0,1 | 0,9 | 0,9 |
| Dothraki Auxillaries | Dothraki_Imp | Imperial Dothraki, who have been trained and armored. | 4 | -1 | 70 | 60 | 50 | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0,2 | 0 | 0,2 |
| 1 vs 1 | Legion | Legion_IS | Legion_IS_Caster | Undead_Basic | Skum | Sahuagin | Illithid | Devil_Host_Lesser | Devil_Host | Devil_Host_Greater | Dothraki_Dead | Dothraki_Imp |
| Legion | 0 | -0,14 | -0,5 | 1 | 1 | 0,17 | -1 | -0,07 | -0,33 | -1 | 1 | 0,12 |
| Legion_IS | 0,14 | 0 | -0,25 | 1 | 1 | 0,5 | -1 | -0,11 | -0,2 | -1 | 1 | 0,17 |
| Legion_IS_Caster | 0,5 | 0,25 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | -0,2 | 1 | -0,12 | -0,25 | 1 | 1 |
| Undead_Basic | -1 | -1 | -1 | 0 | 0,33 | 0,2 | -1 | 0,1 | -1 | -1 | 0,2 | -1 |
| Skum | -1 | -1 | -1 | -0,33 | 0 | -0,5 | -1 | -0,5 | -1 | -1 | -0,25 | -1 |
| Sahuagin | -0,17 | -0,5 | -1 | -0,2 | 0,5 | 0 | -1 | -0,17 | -1 | -1 | 0,2 | -0,17 |
| Illithid | 1 | 1 | 0,2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0,14 | -0,12 | 1 | 1 |
| Devil_Host_Lesser | 0,07 | 0,11 | -1 | -0,1 | 0,5 | 0,17 | -1 | 0 | -1 | -1 | 0,14 | 0,11 |
| Devil_Host | 0,33 | 0,2 | 0,12 | 1 | 1 | 1 | -0,14 | 1 | 0 | -0,14 | 1 | 1 |
| Devil_Host_Greater | 1 | 1 | 0,25 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0,12 | 1 | 0,14 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| Dothraki_Dead | -1 | -1 | -1 | -0,2 | 0,25 | -0,2 | -1 | -0,14 | -1 | -1 | 0 | -0,33 |
| Dothraki_Imp | -0,12 | -0,17 | -1 | 1 | 1 | 0,17 | -1 | -0,11 | -1 | -1 | 0,33 | 0 |
| 5 vs 5 | Legion | Legion_IS | Legion_IS_Caster | Undead_Basic | Skum | Sahuagin | Illithid | Devil_Host_Lesser | Devil_Host | Devil_Host_Greater | Dothraki_Dead | Dothraki_Imp |
| Legion | 0 | -0,14 | -0,5 | 1 | 1 | 0,17 | -1 | -0,07 | -0,33 | -1 | 1 | 0,14 |
| Legion_IS | 0,14 | 0 | -0,25 | 1 | 1 | 0,33 | -1 | 0,11 | -0,2 | -1 | 1 | 0,17 |
| Legion_IS_Caster | 0,5 | 0,25 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | -0,2 | 1 | -0,12 | -0,25 | 1 | 1 |
| Undead_Basic | -1 | -1 | -1 | 0 | 0,33 | -0,2 | -1 | 0,1 | -1 | -1 | -0,2 | -1 |
| Skum | -1 | -1 | -1 | -0,33 | 0 | -0,33 | -1 | -0,5 | -1 | -1 | -0,25 | -1 |
| Sahuagin | -0,17 | -0,33 | -1 | 0,2 | 0,33 | 0 | -1 | -0,17 | -1 | -1 | 0,2 | -0,17 |
| Illithid | 1 | 1 | 0,2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0,14 | -0,11 | 1 | 1 |
| Devil_Host_Lesser | 0,07 | -0,11 | -1 | -0,1 | 0,5 | 0,17 | -1 | 0 | -1 | -1 | 0,17 | 0,1 |
| Devil_Host | 0,33 | 0,2 | 0,12 | 1 | 1 | 1 | -0,14 | 1 | 0 | -0,14 | 1 | 1 |
| Devil_Host_Greater | 1 | 1 | 0,25 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0,11 | 1 | 0,14 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| Dothraki_Dead | -1 | -1 | -1 | 0,2 | 0,25 | -0,2 | -1 | -0,17 | -1 | -1 | 0 | -0,33 |
| Dothraki_Imp | -0,14 | -0,17 | -1 | 1 | 1 | 0,17 | -1 | -0,1 | -1 | -1 | 0,33 | 0 |
- Location
- Germany
Outcome vaguely as expect, the Ghouls are a bit weaker than I thought, but not out of narrative bounds.
We could test this in practice if we make a deal with the Lhazareen.
Having our mostly unused Dothraki (with some support) protect them from their Undead kin seems like a good offer, if they can offer something in return.
We could test this in practice if we make a deal with the Lhazareen.
Having our mostly unused Dothraki (with some support) protect them from their Undead kin seems like a good offer, if they can offer something in return.
- Location
- Germany
You can always fiddle with the values if you think they are too weak. I'm happy to oblige there, since I'm grateful for every unit I don't have to design myself.
- Location
- Germany
Maybe Physical Defence up to 0,2 instead of 0,1. They are immune to all criticals, which does excuse the bad or non-present armor a little bit. Also you have to kill the horses too, as they are rather dangerous Ghoul-creatures.
But besides that I'm mostly happy with the performance.
Aside from that, I thought about Triton-Auxillaries, but their maneuverability would greatly depend on wether they fight in water or on land.
Same for Skum and Sahaguin to be honest, they all have twice the Swim speed over land-speed and they are used to the environment.
- Location
- Germany
I have some plans for terrain and weather modifiers down the line and giving them a bonus to Maneuverability when fighting in the water makes a lot of sense.
But that's long-term stuff.
After I'm done with movement, the next step is likely going to be to take a step back from battles and start implementing strategic nation building stuff. That includes supply mechanics, Readiness regain and such things.
- Location
- Germany
Hm, the Triton's entire cavalry is purely aquatic, so there's more difference than just in Maneuverability, they literally can't use many of their most damaging assets on land.
- Location
- Germany
Some Efreeti Formations:
Mamelukes:
Various slaves of the Efreeti, not as disciplined as regular armies, but well-equipped due to the City's immense industrial capacity. Attack is as good as our Legion's due to natural abilities of the various outsider and some mages propably being present.
Eternal Guard:
Efreeti and Asura, all of them have higher HD, higher strenght and constitution than any human army could have, as well as common SLA's and more than a few mages in support.
To be honest, we can only hope that we never meet those in serious numbers, not without equal armies of Shaitan on our side.
@Azel Don't know what to put for air-speed, the Efreeti all have some, though not fast.
Iron Guard:
Mostly Fire Giants, but also others, up to and including some Rune Giant officers. Between their immense strenght and good equipment I've given them high stats in many areas (where the Eternal Guard's Attack comes partially from magic, this is mostly physical) and though they are somewhat less disciplined than the Eternal Guard they are still drilled hard, resulting in decent organisation and maneuverability.
Burning Dervishes:
Fanatical Janni, Dervishes and Ifrit, raised to view the Sultan as their god and master.
Very high combat-morale, good quipment from the Brazen Forges, but not much tougher than most mortals.
Many fliers among them, but not all, so no air-speed on a strategic level.
All these stats are made under the assumtion that only the regularly integrated battlemages are in the army-groups, if the Brazen Throne actually sends out their mage-orders in force to support a campaign, and they in turn bring their Golems, these stats would have to be adjusted upwards by a significant degree.
Also this is all just my interpretation, if you think certain values should be different, say something.
| Name | ID | Description | Land Speed | Air Speed | Maneuverability | Readiness | Organization | Reorganization | Attack_Physical | Attack_Death | Attack_Psychic | Defense_Physical | Defense_Death | Defense_Psychic |
| Mameluke | Mameluke | Slave-Soldiers of the Brazen Throne | 3 | -1 | 40 | 90 | 40 | 2 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 0,2 | 0 | 0,2 |
| Eternal Guard | Eternal_Guard | Efreeti and Asura, immortal soldiers of the Sultan | 3 | ? | 80 | 60 | 80 | 3 | 7 | 1 | 1 | 0,5 | 0,4 | 0,4 |
| Iron Guard | Iron_Guard | Giants in service of the Brazen Throne | 3 | -1 | 60 | 60 | 60 | 3 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 0,6 | 0,2 | 0,2 |
| Burning Dervishes | Dervishes | Fanatic non-Efreeti Genie-kin | 3 | -1 | 60 | 80 | 80 | 4 | 6 | 0 | 1 | 0,2 | 0,1 | 0,3 |
Mamelukes:
Various slaves of the Efreeti, not as disciplined as regular armies, but well-equipped due to the City's immense industrial capacity. Attack is as good as our Legion's due to natural abilities of the various outsider and some mages propably being present.
Eternal Guard:
Efreeti and Asura, all of them have higher HD, higher strenght and constitution than any human army could have, as well as common SLA's and more than a few mages in support.
To be honest, we can only hope that we never meet those in serious numbers, not without equal armies of Shaitan on our side.
@Azel Don't know what to put for air-speed, the Efreeti all have some, though not fast.
Iron Guard:
Mostly Fire Giants, but also others, up to and including some Rune Giant officers. Between their immense strenght and good equipment I've given them high stats in many areas (where the Eternal Guard's Attack comes partially from magic, this is mostly physical) and though they are somewhat less disciplined than the Eternal Guard they are still drilled hard, resulting in decent organisation and maneuverability.
Burning Dervishes:
Fanatical Janni, Dervishes and Ifrit, raised to view the Sultan as their god and master.
Very high combat-morale, good quipment from the Brazen Forges, but not much tougher than most mortals.
Many fliers among them, but not all, so no air-speed on a strategic level.
All these stats are made under the assumtion that only the regularly integrated battlemages are in the army-groups, if the Brazen Throne actually sends out their mage-orders in force to support a campaign, and they in turn bring their Golems, these stats would have to be adjusted upwards by a significant degree.
Also this is all just my interpretation, if you think certain values should be different, say something.
Last edited:
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm not opposed to that at all. Although Garin currently has a resting Hide bonus of +49 and Move Silently bonus of +45, that doesn't mean someone can't get lucky and notice him. An extra +20 on those could be very helpful.
There are plenty of other instances where that +20 could come in handy, too.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Have we ever used Garin for solo infiltration?
That's the only situation where a straight bonus to Stealth would apply in relevance.
Even one this big. The problem of "army moves with the speed of the slowest unit', here.
We are even less likely to have him sneaking around now, that Westeros is done.
He's ought be getting stuff that is helpful in leading the Inquisition, not the stuff making him personally marginally better, imo.
That's the only situation where a straight bonus to Stealth would apply in relevance.
Even one this big. The problem of "army moves with the speed of the slowest unit', here.
We are even less likely to have him sneaking around now, that Westeros is done.
He's ought be getting stuff that is helpful in leading the Inquisition, not the stuff making him personally marginally better, imo.