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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TalonofAnathrax said:
@Crake, I can't see why the women couldn't meet the minimum standard. We're recruiting a small number of people from a huge, heavily populated area. Then we put them through boot camp. And a lot of these people are ex-slaves who wanted some revenge - this nicely sidesteps usual cultural factors which keep women away from the army, and it also recruits from the massive numbers of women who spent their lives doing hard labor. We also explicitly aren't demanding previous combat training or anything, so that's not a problem.

Even if you think women in D&D should have -4 Str because they're naturally weak and hesitant, we've got a sufficiently massive recruiting pool to reasonably have huge numbers of "top of the bell curve" women who could meet basic infantry requirements and wreck face.
Male biology =/= female biology, but the difference isn't that huge.
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I agree, and could go on, for a variety of reasons, but I won't. And even if I had a belief that women should have mechanical disadvantages compared to men, it wouldn't really make sense in this context because you are creating "player characters", as in, the protagonists. Protagonists are meant to be outliers. Special snowflakes. Being within the quotient group of women who can compete with men in physical activities (as I said, they exist) isn't really a great ask compared to "being the destined chosen one who will defeat the BBEG and thrust his ring into the crack of doom", or whatever.
 
Guess I'm gonna be a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to Mythic stuff for Garin. :whistle:

@DragonParadox, if Garin learned the Supreme Stealth Path ability, could he choose to be able to hide from the Lifesense ability? His Darkstalker class feature already covers Blindsight/Blindsense, Scent, and Tremoresense.

Between his stealth focus and his nature as a Dhampir, this seems fairly thematic to me.

Thoughts, @Crake, @TalonofAnathrax?

Supreme Stealth (Ex)
Choose one of the following senses: blindsight, scent, or tremorsense. A creature using the chosen sense can't automatically detect you, and must succeed at Perception checks as normal to do so. If you choose blindsight, this ability also affects blindsense. You can select this ability up to three times, each time choosing a different sense.
 
Can we just get on with recruiting Lanna? It's becoming increasingly obvious that we must and I'm tired to death of this topic.
 
Azel said:
Can we just get on with recruiting Lanna? It's becoming increasingly obvious that we must and I'm tired to death of this topic.
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I would really rather not recruit her. Too contentious, too much history, and too much uncertainty.

If nothing else, we can use Scribe's Binding and put her on the shelf for a while.
 
Goldfish said:
If nothing else, we can use Scribe's Binding and put her on the shelf for a while.
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THat's really not going to help anyone.

We've been arguing about her since long, long before we captured her, though with lesser frequency back then, so any further delays won't make this less bitter.
Kill, recruit, whatever, but not "same decision in a few months, when the last argument about it is far enough away that everything gets repeated again".
 
Goldfish said:
I don't get the joke? 🤔

Also, Garin would look terrible in a burqa.
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That wasn't a joke. Lifesense is described as having your skin emit light. This light is explicitly blocked by physical objects. Instead of spending a precious mythic path ability that that, it seems better to just get him a new outfit (or a Darkness item or spell that blocks Lifesense light).
 
Goldfish said:
I would really rather not recruit her. Too contentious, too much history, and too much uncertainty.

If nothing else, we can use Scribe's Binding and put her on the shelf for a while.
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Problem is that we are apparently back at "she tried to defect and serve Tywins head on a silver platter" and we already got railroaded into capturing her alive.

So I just want to get this over with before wasting more time fighting the inevitable.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
That wasn't a joke. Lifesense is described as having your skin emit light. This light is explicitly blocked by physical objects. Instead of spending a precious mythic path ability that that, it seems better to just get him a new outfit (or a Darkness item or spell that blocks Lifesense light).
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Ah, you're talking about the 3.5 version of Lifesense. AFAIK, we've only ever used the Pathfinder version in this quest, and it has nothing to do with light.
 
Goldfish said:
I would really rather not recruit her. Too contentious, too much history, and too much uncertainty.

If nothing else, we can use Scribe's Binding and put her on the shelf for a while.
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We can do the same with a couple of truth spells and the threat of worse then death for non compliance. We don't need to turn people into books that will deal with us willingly she isn't a fucking demon, or Outsider abomination that corrupts reality by existing.

TLDR: Lets try to not waste time and effort on the complete over kill of booking her.

Azel stop being petty there was no railroading here just ask to look at the fucking combat rolls.
 
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lancelot said:
We can do the same with a couple of truth spells and the threat of worse then death for non compliance. We don't need to turn people into books that will deal with us willingly she isn't a fucking demon, or Outsider abomination that corrupts reality by existing.

TLDR: Lets try to not waste time and effort on the complete over kill of booking her.
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Scribe's Binding is far faster and the most efficient interrogation. Whatever we do with Lanna she is getting turned into a book first.
 
Artemis1992 said:
THat's really not going to help anyone.

We've been arguing about her since long, long before we captured her, though with lesser frequency back then, so any further delays won't make this less bitter.
Kill, recruit, whatever, but not "same decision in a few months, when the last argument about it is far enough away that everything gets repeated again".
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Fair point. No need to kick this can down the road any longer.

Scribe's Binding is still the best short-term option for containment plus information gathering, however, so that should still be on the table, at least temporarily.
Azel said:
Problem is that we are apparently back at "she tried to defect and serve Tywins head on a silver platter" and we already got railroaded into capturing her alive.

So I just want to get this over with before wasting more time fighting the inevitable.
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We have very little to go on here, except for a bit of Tywin's internal monologue.

Regardless of background shit that happened, she was our enemy long before she was mind controlled, and she herself is complicit in mind controlling a significant portion of Westeros' nobility, men and women who we now rule. Even if we don't kill her, I don't want to recruit her because of previously stated reasons, plus the potential for tension her continued presence might cause among the nobility.

If we can't justify killing her for some reason, I would maybe accept exile, I guess? Maybe in Armun Kelisk, if they're willing to have her?
 
Azel said:
Problem is that we are apparently back at "she tried to defect and serve Tywins head on a silver platter" and we already got railroaded into capturing her alive.

So I just want to get this over with before wasting more time fighting the inevitable.
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You guys have the word 'traitor' from inside Tywin's head and this is a man who I distinctly portrayed as seeing traitors everywhere. I will repeat that I do not care about Lanna as a character, but please try to look at a nuanced situation with nuance. She does not have to be a saint, indeed I can confirm here and now she is not one, OK.

Sainthood and blamelessness are not on the table. By the same token the last interlude just tried among other things to humanize Tywin, if he can have his reasons for acting in a monstrous way than so can Lanna. Reasons do not mean excuses
 
Goldfish said:
If we can't justify killing her for some reason, I would maybe accept exile, I guess? Maybe in Armun Kelisk, if they're willing to have her?
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I am absolutely against it. We don't have to make her a companion or bring her closer to the throne. There are a lot of responsibilities for which it would be nice to have a high-level character, and our personal interaction with him will be reduced to a minimum. For example, I would like to send ambassadors to Nefer, K'Dath, or even Carcosa. And I fully understand that such ambassadors can be cooked alive (in real history, this happened), so we can not send someone expensive, but it is impossible to send a weak person to such places, they simply will not get there. Quite a good position for Lanna and Geryon.
 
Here is what we know.

1) Lanna was involved in a years long geas campaign in the Golden Shields at the behest of Tywin
2) Tywin mind controlled Lanna after a perceived or actual betrayal
2a) trading with the Formian of "something divine"

Everything else is assumptions and grudges.
 
Letting a level-18 character any leeway is downright re[edacted] when you can't be 100% certain they wont fuck with you.
And she'd not be okay with us binding her via Yss

Indeed, if we go the only route that would reasonably extinguish any paranoia, we would also do basically what she did to Westerosi Lords.

Might as well feed her to Yss at that point, less moral arguments will happen at least.

Sapphon said:
And I fully understand that such ambassadors can be cooked alive (in real history, this happened), so we can not send someone expensive, but it is impossible to send a weak person to such places, they simply will not get there.
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The argument is extremely weird for DnD.
There is no stopping a reasonably well-prepared diplomat from fleeing, teleports, stone-swimming, you name it.
Unless you throw actual PCs at them, no cigar - our Diplomacy corps are actually as well-geared IC as Scholarum mages.

And by the point of PCs killing off diplomatic parties, we can be sure there is no point in Diplomacy and we're at war.

Why bother?

No, please don't struggle so hard to find a niche to fill with Lana and Gerion. This one is definitely not for them.
 
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Sapphon said:
I am absolutely against it. We don't have to make her a companion or bring her closer to the throne. There are a lot of responsibilities for which it would be nice to have a high-level character, and our personal interaction with him will be reduced to a minimum. For example, I would like to send ambassadors to Nefer, K'Dath, or even Carcosa. And I fully understand that such ambassadors can be cooked alive (in real history, this happened), so we can not send someone expensive, but it is impossible to send a weak person to such places, they simply will not get there. Quite a good position for Lanna and Geryon.
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If we're interacting with those areas it'll be with Companions, not with Lannisters who people couldn't resist pokemon capturing.
 
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