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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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I can accept her being looted assuming she proves herself reasonable and actually honest-to-all-gods-loyal.

I can't stand the immediate jump to treating her anything but an enemy until proven otherwise - and many seem to have made that immediately?
I am okay with stuff that is reasonable IC.
I'm not okay with OOC desires justifying things that dint make sense IC.

Aberi ought to have died on that airship battle, it was the thread who were tired.
Bronn ought to have hanged, it was the thread who have pokemon'd.

Now I am here, and I detest the stuff I couldn't stop by jot being there.
 
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Azel said:
Why should we do this narratively though? Viserys has IC no reason to be attached to her or to spend so much effort on her. Not even that she is a 9th level caster. We tend to sacrifice those often enough these days.

Her value is purely OOC.
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I think Viserys' primary interest in her would be that she was the founder of the Golden Shields and likely the architect, at least to some extent, of many magics used throughout Westeros by Lannister-aligned forces, up to and including the disturbing Iron Wyrms with Human mages grafted to them.

That's the kind of resume likely to incline Viserys to investigating further, if only for the potential intelligence which might still be extracted from her. Otherwise, she's just another enemy Lannister.
 
honestly i want to both know the timeline and talk to her ect before we dicide if she would make a better mage, book or corpse.

we have her alive might as well see if we can use her or if she will become another book in the library
 
My opinion is to just Brain Spider/Scribe's Bind her for all the relevant info and then just kill her. We can't sacrifice her (unless new info comes out that her and the Lannisters really screwed the pooch) and I really really dont trust an unstable 9th circle casting mage who was our enemy since the beginning.

Same logic as killing Faegon and in this case Lanna doesnt qualify for soul death.
 
I will be honest. I am on the fence here. My issues with recruiting her were the fact that mid battle no fucks with the battle master and the fact that slavery was being done. For the first point, this is a pirate ship goddamn it and the battle master(@Goldfish) should be allowed to command as effectively as possible. The second rings a tad hollow but legally we can execute her. We have recruited worse than Lanna(she is up there) but we can kill her if we please. On the other hand this is a ninth level mage and honestly greed is fighting me on it. Do I trust that she will be loyal? No but we have ways of ensuring her loyalty
 
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I just want the facts before we make a decision. Not considering killing or letting her live until we have it. This has been a issue for a while if my memory is correct. If by some chance we let her live there will be restrictions and terms she Needs to accept.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Do I trust that she will be loyal? No but we have ways of ensuring her loyalty
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We don't really have any good methods to compel loyalty from someone. We just tend to murder people when that becomes an issue.
Goldfish said:
I think Viserys' primary interest in her would be that she was the founder of the Golden Shields and likely the architect, at least to some extent, of many magics used throughout Westeros by Lannister-aligned forces, up to and including the disturbing Iron Wyrms with Human mages grafted to them.

That's the kind of resume likely to incline Viserys to investigating further, if only for the potential intelligence which might still be extracted from her. Otherwise, she's just another enemy Lannister.
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I'm definitely for taking a little stroll through her skull with Brainspider. Not doing so would be both OOC and idiotic on our part.

I'm just not looking forward to what beside the useful intel we will find in there.
 
Someone remind me whether or not I argued against this like twelve times over the course of the last four years?

I don't think you need me to weigh in. I got what I wanted with regards to the Tyrells, so you can consider my quotient of qualms filled.
 
yeah i'm planning on brainspidering all the lanisters we capture so we get the most complete picture we can get
 
Crake said:
Someone remind me whether or not I argued against this like twelve times over the course of the last four years?

I don't think you need me to weigh in. I got what I wanted with regards to the Tyrells, so you can consider my quotient of qualms filled.
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I forgot to ask or maybe I forgot that I asked but how does it feel to have torn the Tyrells and the fey a new asshole?
Azel said:
We don't really have any good methods to compel loyalty from someone. We just tend to murder people when that becomes an issue.
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Wouldn't an oath under Yss make sure that she follows the rules of the Scholarium work?
 
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Mind Probe and Brain Spider are both limited to what we think to ask and also do not provide much in the way of context or spotting mental alterations.

Bookify them both. Take a casual month after the conquest to go though everything. If inclined for recruitment later, it is no worse than a time out. If not, a Sha'ir makes for an excellent addition to the library (transcribe knowledge, then kill her).
 
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I realise that my previous edit was a little unclear, so I'll elaborate here.
Right now, one of Viserys' recurring character traits is that he doesn't really care about the evil stuff you've done in the past if he thinks you'll be useful, loyal, and won't do it again if properly managed. This doesn't really fit with my conception of justice, but whatever. It's still a lot better than "really cares about evil done in the past, but only when it was done in front of his face", which is what we risk establishing depending on how we handle her.

IMO if we kill her, it's because she's bad PR and/or will never bend the knee. Not because she's mind-controlled people, no matter how horrific that is.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Wouldn't an oath under Yss make sure that she follows the rules of the Scholarium work?
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If she's a nasty bitch about it, she'll find plenty of ways to break out from under the oath, subvert it in horrible ways, or otherwise help our enemies.

If we cant 248% be sure she'll be loyal, a level 18 PC is too fucking hard to control.
Not when IC we are so hate-on against slavery, and likely won't ever go full "Qyburn with Psychic Chirurgery, Qartheni Warlocks with Soul-stitching, Elaheh with fleshcrafting" on her to ensure unbreakable loyalty beyond what she had even to Tywin.

At that point, we just toss stuff at Yss and get minions of slightly lower power but with all the relevant knowledge.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Wouldn't an oath under Yss make sure that she follows the rules of the Scholarium work?
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If that degree of intervention is necessary, I would prefer to just kill her or have her reformatted in Yss' gullet. She's too powerful to turn loose if she can't be trusted to follow the rules without Tywin-levels of mindfuckery.
Nickan said:
Mind Probe and Brain Spider are both limited to what we think to ask and also do not provide much in the way of context or spotting mental alterations.

Bookify them both. Take a casual month after the conquest to go though everything. If inclined for recruitment later, it is no worse than a time out.
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Agreed. Plunder their minds with Brain Spider for immediately relevant information, then bookify them for more casual reading as time permits. We're going to have enough trouble sorting out Westeros in the coming weeks, Lanna's issues can wait, IMO.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
I realise that my previous edit was a little unclear, so I'll elaborate here.
Right now, one of Viserys' recurring character traits is that he doesn't really care about the evil stuff you've done in the past if he thinks you'll be useful, loyal, and won't do it again if properly managed. This doesn't really fit with my conception of justice, but whatever. It's still a lot better than "really cares about evil done in the past, but only when it was done in front of his face", which is what we risk establishing depending on how we handle her.

IMO if we kill her, it's because she's bad PR and/or will never bend the knee. Not because she's mind-controlled people, no matter how horrific that is.
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At least for me, that was perfectly clear. My reaction was just meant to imply that I could and would like to say a great many things to that sentiment, but will refrain from doing so.

Unless provoked. If someone gives me a morality argument about why we need to spare Lanna, I'm going to go on the warpath.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
IMO if we kill her, it's because she's bad PR and/or will never bend the knee. Not because she's mind-controlled people, no matter how horrific that is.
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This is my view of her. If she didn't run away from Tywin before she was brainwashed we have no reason to believe she, an archmage, will loyally serve Viserys after he destroys her entire house, strips them of their wealth, and reduces them to smallfolk.

It's not quite the same as the problem we had with f!Aegon but hell if it isn't similar.
Azel said:
At least for me, that was perfectly clear. My reaction was just meant to imply that I could and would like to say a great many things to that sentiment, but will refrain from doing so.

Unless provoked. If someone gives me a morality argument about why we need to spare Lanna, I'm going to go on the warpath.
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Please go on the warpath. I want her and Gerion dead and have no interest in recruiting either of them.
 
Well, yes, considering how we recruited Bronn, devils, an plenty of bad stuff who have done horrible things in the past, the only parameter that we have is whether she will be loyal and useful.

If those two conditions are not true, then to the gallows. I don't think that they commited crimes agaist humanity to deserve becoming fertilizer. Slavery with or without magic just means she is hanged.
 
I'm disinclined to let Lana-issue fester, but... it is... somewhat... IC to bookify and read through her slowly.

I am, however, rather violently against letting her just be there for any longer than needed.
My sodium levels are too high about her over the years-long arguments.

We have the spells.
We can read her whole life-story while she's bookified, in a few hours time.

She's not a Devil or an Illithid, after all.
A squishy Geni-blooded mortal. No hundreds of years to meticulously go through.
 
Tomcost said:
Well, yes, considering how we recruited Bronn, devils, an plenty of bad stuff who have done horrible things in the past, the only parameter that we have is whether she will be loyal and useful.

If those two conditions are not true, then to the gallows. I don't think that they commited crimes agaist humanity to deserve becoming fertilizer. Slavery with or without magic just means she is hanged.
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She isn't fertilizer, true. She's just not someone we can afford to trust as a vassal. Like, at all.
 
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