A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
-
- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Personally, I'd like to keep them both alive. Characters of their level are too rare to just scrap them. In addition, after receiving Lanna, we will take all that remains of the Golden Shields.
Think about it in the following way. They've been digging into OUR treasures under Valyria. They were looking for magic in OUR ancestral castle.They borrowed a lot of treasure from us, and now we need to get the treasure from them and all the percentages that has accumulated over so many years.
Think about it in the following way. They've been digging into OUR treasures under Valyria. They were looking for magic in OUR ancestral castle.They borrowed a lot of treasure from us, and now we need to get the treasure from them and all the percentages that has accumulated over so many years.
Last edited:
- Location
- ?????????
She has the right to a fair trial and hearing considering that for the better part of a year she was under a familial compulsion spell. I am not saying we recruit her(god no). I am saying we hear her out and see what all this is.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
That's a pretty steep investment for a niche spell effect, but when you're enemy is known to make heavy use of Constructs, it's certainly not a bad one.
I have no urge to Pokemon either of them. If we even allow them to live, it's gonna taking some pretty seriously extenuating circumstances.
For Lanna to be functional and have 17th level spellcasting at a minimum, yet to bear multiple facial scars and be down an eye...I'm afraid there is something very unsettling going on that we don't know the full details of yet.
I can all too easily imagine Tywin having her subjected to some sort of horrific ritual to further bind her or to force her cooperation.
- Location
- The Netherlands
don't Sha'Ir only gain 9th lvl at lvl 18?
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Agreed. No desire to recruit her, but her life isn't automatically forfeit, either. If she and Gerion are allowed to go free, probably the best they could hope for is exile.
Despite it being one of my favorite pastimes, it probably is a bit early to speculate much further.
Could be. I'm not super familiar with the class and haven't looked at it in years.
ContemplateLife
Philosopher Thesaurus
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm probably missing something because I'm not sure what the problem with the ok lannisters is? I thought we wanted to smush Tywin/torture him, not those he controlled?
- Location
- Germany
Casters capable of using 9th level spells are by definition rather hard to ignore.
It's either recruitment or death for her. Anything else would be idiotic on our part.
As for which of the two, I think my stance is well known, but I'm deferring to those who want to hear more before deciding. IC I'm pretty sure she did plenty that we can have her hanged as a slaver for. OOC I'm expecting a barrage of justifications and excuses.
- Location
- Germany
Yeah, there's something deeply wrong with that, scars on a high-end caster are a bad sign.
With all else going on I would not rule out that the feats were switched out with Psychic Surgery or some other trick, maybe by the Fomorians.
Tywin can't reliably control a high-end mage, but maybe his new allies can. Big MAYBE.
Though I wonder how he bought that much help from them.
@DragonParadox
Just in case you overlooked it, a Sha'ir can draw, among others, spells from the Luck Domain.
SRD:Luck Domain - D&D Wiki
Her being scarred better has a damn good reason. As well as her being mind-controlled.
Edit: Sorry if that sounded too agressive, I'm mostly confused and waiting for an explanation, not trying to pre-emptivly attack possible explanations.
Last edited:
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
At first I was assuming it was to control our own Constructs, but upon further thought, it was probably necessary to wrangle their anti-Dragon Constructs. Those Iron Wyrms would have been CR 17 at a basic level before being further modified, including being empowered by the sacrifice of multiple Valyrian Dragons and having Human mages grafted to them. It's likely those things were only functional beyond being berserk killing machines due to her controlling them.
I would like her to at least get a chance of justifying herself. If worst come to worst, we soul surgery the magic part of her away and erase a few years of memory from her head and have constantly watched.
Provided it was all mind control and she isn't complicit.
Provided it was all mind control and she isn't complicit.
I mean sure you can recruit her, that does not mean you guys have to see her often on screen if you do not want to. Maybe I'm wrong but I get the feeling that it is interacting with her that is the problem for some voters.
- Location
- Germany
Certainly not, we won't throw away a ninth circle caster in the case that we do consider her relativly innocent.
- Location
- France
I want to interact with her, see her onscreen, and get a feel for her personality. Making any judgements before that is premature. And I think it's a huge shame to avoid any interaction with such an important antagonist just because we're (apparently unanimously?!?) afraid of a hypothetical loot-tendency.
I campaigned for assassinating her for months back in the day, so you can be sure I'm not saying this as a plot to recruit her or anything
I campaigned for assassinating her for months back in the day, so you can be sure I'm not saying this as a plot to recruit her or anything
- Location
- Germany
To some degree? Probably. My issue with her is that she gets pretty obvious plot armor, both in battles and in regards to her actions. I'm pretty sure we will find all her dodgy actions are purely the result of mind-control and Tywin threatening her.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
"Justifying".
You guys act like merely because she was under a compulsion at some point (which seems to have escalated wildly since), she's innocent.
That shit she did is somehow immediately forgivable just because affected in the brain.
That we ought to treat her as anything but an enemy from the get-go on an off chance we get to loot.
That even if we manage to break the shit that seems to affect her, we could ever trust her enough to recruit- and that is the only option sans death, mind, Azel is absolutely correct about level 18 casters being too dangerous to let live.
And they are "Nice Lannisters"!
Nooo, can't kill, must justify!
Brainwash, brainwash, it justifies everything forever, we just gotta Psychic Surgery on top of that and we get a nice little Pokemon!
Edit: also, @DragonParadox, azel is kinda on-point with "plot armor", since by your very phrasing it is clear there will be justifications thrown around.
You guys act like merely because she was under a compulsion at some point (which seems to have escalated wildly since), she's innocent.
That shit she did is somehow immediately forgivable just because affected in the brain.
That we ought to treat her as anything but an enemy from the get-go on an off chance we get to loot.
That even if we manage to break the shit that seems to affect her, we could ever trust her enough to recruit- and that is the only option sans death, mind, Azel is absolutely correct about level 18 casters being too dangerous to let live.
My problem is that some voters seem to turn off their sensibility once named canon character appears on-screen and they try loot them regardless of how insensible it is IC.
And they are "Nice Lannisters"!
Nooo, can't kill, must justify!
Brainwash, brainwash, it justifies everything forever, we just gotta Psychic Surgery on top of that and we get a nice little Pokemon!
Edit: also, @DragonParadox, azel is kinda on-point with "plot armor", since by your very phrasing it is clear there will be justifications thrown around.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Even best case scenario and she's been mind controlled for a significant length of time, she was still almost certainly complicit in Tywin's early widespread use of mind control on a large portion of Westerosi nobility, probably most of the Westerlands.
I don't want to kill her, but her path to continued survival is a very narrow one.
- Location
- France
Honestly, the Lannisters have done lots of bad things, but they've done nothing worse than what some of our previous recruits have done. IMO the big disqualifier for recruitment should be "will be disloyal to us", not "did more Evil than the actual contract devil we hired" or whatever. Maybe PR could weigh in, but that's about it.
EDIT: I don't want to make "doesn't really care about offscreen evil" one of Viserys' character traits.
EDIT: I don't want to make "doesn't really care about offscreen evil" one of Viserys' character traits.
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
Why should we do this narratively though? Viserys has IC no reason to be attached to her or to spend so much effort on her. Not even that she is a 9th level caster. We tend to sacrifice those often enough these days.I want to interact with her, see her onscreen, and get a feel for her personality. Making any judgements before that is premature. And I think it's a huge shame to avoid any interaction with such an important antagonist just because we're (apparently unanimously?!?) afraid of a hypothetical loot-tendency.
I campaigned for assassinating her for months back in the day, so you can be sure I'm not saying this as a plot to recruit her or anything
Her value is purely OOC.
That seems unlikely IC, the timeline does not work out for what you can infer from Marwyn. It was loyalty not threats that drove her initially.
- Location
- France
OOC value is what decides who we interact with narratively. We routinely get important Inquisition reports as blocks of spoilered bullet points if OOC we don't really care about the preliminary steps, the fleshforged minions or the random location.
And then of course there's the fact that she's been an important antagonist for a while, and Viserys has IC griped about her actions quite a bit when they were both lower-level.
- Location
- Germany
I'm perfectly fine with that being used as a yard stick on what to do with her. But to be honest, my hackles are already raising due to the talk about how actually none of the bad stuff is her fault anyway.
I mean, we recruited people like Zherys, Qyburn, literal Devils and what not, but we shouldn't do this whole white washing song and dance.
