Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
Azel said:
That's a fascinating question and I'd say we sidestep this plothole by saying that you are scrying only the mirror, not the actual things around it.

It kinda makes sense, since you can't move the view like a Scrying Sensor could and neither can you use any extravagant senses or Detect spells through it. Just whatever the mirror genuinely reflects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Since this is a more esoteric explanation, that's likely the correct one. Magic is more mysterious than science, even if Lya is codifying more and more of it.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Even if he did I don't think he would want to try. This is certainly one of the more fucked up things I have read this month.

Edit: I wonder though...doe it not work on close family? Because Cersei was unaffected...I think
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, either it's the Delusion Defense (she honestly thought her actions were in her houses best interests and the curse can make her loyal, but not competent) or it was the influence from Loth (beside being a Chaotic deity, she is a possessive one, so she might have shielded her).
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
So what you guys are saying is that our reflection broke this young man's mind? He is a sobbing mess rn I'd like to point out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Most mind control spells, such as Dominate, allow additional saves when you are ordered to do something grossly dangerous and flat out fail when you are ordered to do something suicidal.

The part of his brain still working properly likely recognized that a) Tygett will soon order him to fight and b) what a stupendously bad idea that is for his own survival. So that was him trying and failing to shake off the control.

I mean, what would you do if you were forced to march to your own funeral and are barely able to think about refusal, but entirely unable to actually reject that order? I think sobbing sounds about right.
 
since best Coatle is a god of liberation could he use one of the captured Lanisters under the enchantment to dispel it form all the Lanisters at once (conveniently removing house Lanistere's unity in the face of a crises) or at the very least remove the curse from any captured Lanisters after all he is a god of liberation so he should be able to pull off all sorts of stuff against an enslavement curse
 
@DragonParadox If I have this right, IC, Viserys knows for sure Tywin is going around not just publicly binding his mages with Geass and other pacts to secure their cooperation and as a reprisal against betrayal. But has also non-publicly enslaved multiple bannermen via compulsion and posting enchanters to mind their bonds from time to time.

What we don't realize, and what Viserys would find particularly galling, is this entire time the lack of someone negotiating with us, for once, instead of 'fighting to the bitter end'... was because Tywin enslaved even his own direct family via a blood curse?

Because that is... really... not something pleasant to learn about. I don't think we'd soon forget that if we knew it.
 
@Goldfish @DragonParadox

So I'm curious, what schools of magic do the MirrorVision objects emanate as auras? They are clearly capable of using Illusion, since they will reflect things on their surfaces that aren't actually genuinely being viewed, like hyper realistic symbols and presumably special effects. Optionally, that's not the case, and in fact what is happening is mages on the receiver side are using a combination of smoke and (hah) mirrors and illusion magic projected onto air in order to do the same.

So in that case, is the school actually [Divination], only reflecting what is genuinely presented to one surface on other surfaces? Or is it actually [Illusion]?

Or is it [Divination] AND [Illusion]?
 
Crake said:
@Goldfish @DragonParadox

So I'm curious, what schools of magic do the MirrorVision objects emanate as auras? They are clearly capable of using Illusion, since they will reflect things on their surfaces that aren't actually genuinely being viewed, like hyper realistic symbols and presumably special effects. Optionally, that's not the case, and in fact what is happening is mages on the receiver side are using a combination of smoke and (hah) mirrors and illusion magic projected onto air in order to do the same.

So in that case, is the school actually [Divination], only reflecting what is genuinely presented to one surface on other surfaces? Or is it actually [Illusion]?

Or is it [Divination] AND [Illusion]?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The image is physically captured in the Mirror, transmitted to the others via Divination, and displayed via Illusion, including full audio. There is also a dash of Transmutation, since the Mirrors are capable of size changing in order to better adjust to whichever venue they occupy and to make transport less cumbersome.
 
Azel said:
That's a fascinating question and I'd say we sidestep this plothole by saying that you are scrying only the mirror, not the actual things around it.

It kinda makes sense, since you can't move the view like a Scrying Sensor could and neither can you use any extravagant senses or Detect spells through it. Just whatever the mirror genuinely reflects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This makes sense and it also fills in a plot hole I really do not want to deal with

Crake said:
@Goldfish @DragonParadox

So I'm curious, what schools of magic do the MirrorVision objects emanate as auras? They are clearly capable of using Illusion, since they will reflect things on their surfaces that aren't actually genuinely being viewed, like hyper realistic symbols and presumably special effects. Optionally, that's not the case, and in fact what is happening is mages on the receiver side are using a combination of smoke and (hah) mirrors and illusion magic projected onto air in order to do the same.

So in that case, is the school actually [Divination], only reflecting what is genuinely presented to one surface on other surfaces? Or is it actually [Illusion]?

Or is it [Divination] AND [Illusion]?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I would say divination and illusion to cover all bases.

Good night guys, see you tomorrow as we return to Viserys' PoV for the rest of our stay in KL.
 
Azel said:
That's a fascinating question and I'd say we sidestep this plothole by saying that you are scrying only the mirror, not the actual things around it.

It kinda makes sense, since you can't move the view like a Scrying Sensor could and neither can you use any extravagant senses or Detect spells through it. Just whatever the mirror genuinely reflects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It does raise the possibility of divinations that sidestep Mind Blank. They don't scry the mind-blanked person; instead they reproduce, via illusion magic, what a human eye nearby sees. Or creates an illusory copy of the reflection of a nearby mirror or something.

Is it possible that this is what happened in the interlude? Instead of the scene being scried, the eyes and ears of an onlooker were? That would enable a more dramatic scene than a septon talking to empty air.
 
Cheiromancer said:
It does raise the possibility of divinations that sidestep Mind Blank. They don't scry the mind-blanked person; instead they reproduce, via illusion magic, what a human eye nearby sees. Or creates an illusory copy of the reflection of a nearby mirror or something.

Is it possible that this is what happened in the interlude? Instead of the scene being scried, the eyes and ears of an onlooker were? That would enable a more dramatic scene than a septon talking to empty air.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is a good fucking question, and one that I hope that we find out the answer to, one way or another, pretty damn quickly, lest our Mind Blanks be able to be loopholed without us knowing a damn thing about it.
 
Cheiromancer said:
It does raise the possibility of divinations that sidestep Mind Blank. They don't scry the mind-blanked person; instead they reproduce, via illusion magic, what a human eye nearby sees. Or creates an illusory copy of the reflection of a nearby mirror or something.

Is it possible that this is what happened in the interlude? Instead of the scene being scried, the eyes and ears of an onlooker were? That would enable a more dramatic scene than a septon talking to empty air.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I can think of a few different ways to accomplish something like this, but it would be expensive and fairly unwieldy, not to mention that the potential applications for it would be relatively rare.

The easiest and most reasonable way of possibly doing it would be to use an Enter Image spell. That requires setup ahead of time, however, and the range is extremely limited.

Using Stolen Light is another way to do it, but it would require the Focus gem to be physically present and you wouldn't really be able to view anything in real time, but would instead be limiting to watching the recording.

From there it devolves into memory sharing, telepathic transmission, long distance Illusion-based replaying of events (which would still not really be very long distance), etc. Basically, it can be done if someone really wants to, though the limitations make it impractical.
TonedMite said:
That is a good fucking question, and one that I hope that we find out the answer to, one way or another, pretty damn quickly, lest our Mind Blanks be able to be loopholed without us knowing a damn thing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eh, it's not really that big of a deal. Someone being able to sorta-kinda get a visual display of us through convoluted and difficult to reproduce means doesn't really affect us too much, and that aspect of Mind Blank is really the least useful to us anyway.

Mind Blank prevents us from being subject to precognitive Divinations, tracking spells, and no-sells Mind-Affecting effects. The blocking of Scrying and other means of spying on us is just gravy.
 
Last edited:
TonedMite said:
That is a good fucking question, and one that I hope that we find out the answer to, one way or another, pretty damn quickly, lest our Mind Blanks be able to be loopholed without us knowing a damn thing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Or, conversely, we might be able to loophole hostile mindblanks.

Edit: Just saw Goldfish's response. It can't be too difficult or unwieldy, or Viserys couldn't appear on TV.
 
Last edited:
Duesal said:
We should also give out a beer to go with it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In addition to the Rum Rations people mentioned, during the USA's war of independence every soldier was given a Spruce Beer (specifically since Spruce was known to have medicinal properties though the Boiling needed to make the beer killed the Vitamin C) ration or a molasses ration to make their own beer with.

Azel said:
To me it reads as if Tywin went full tilt and put a bloodline curse on his own family for them to slavishly obey their head of house.

Once we catch wind of that IC, we should ask the High Septon if Joffrey is acting weird. Like, trying to charge out of the sept and killing us with a dagger weird.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Azel said:
Honestly? We should break the curse by sacrificing Tywin. Publicly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ouf. At first I thought that no, this seems in line with non occult "Death before Dishonor" mindsets, but then I remembered Tygett is very literally the one Lannister who's been called out at wanting to get out of Tywin's shadow. Jesus this is fucking grim.

Execution after trial. Judge Judy this bitch up.

And man, people havent really mentioned it but Im kinda twigged on how casually Tygett refers to the mage as the "enchanted" whatever. Sure his own likely enchantment is fucking with the brain meats, but everything about that phrasing pretty much takes it for granted that a magic user should be enslaved body and soul as a tool for their betters. Like birds sing, fishes swim and mages should be shackled to serve a nobles whims. Ugh. I'd say this is a pretty damn big deal too since in context Westeros is actually canonically very anti slavery. So ugghh.
 
Last edited:
A_Somebody said:
In addition to the Rum Rations people mentioned, during the USA's war of independence every soldier was given a Spruce Beer (specifically since Spruce was known to have medicinal properties though the Boiling needed to make the beer killed the Vitamin X) ration or a molasses ration to make their own beer with.




Ouf. At first I thought that no, this seems in line with non occult "Death before Dishonor" mindsets, but then I remembered Tygett is very literally the one Lannister who's been called out at wanting to get out of Tywin's shadow. Jesus this is fucking grim.

Execution after trial. Judge Judy this bitch up.

And man, people havent really mentioned it but Im kinda twigged on how casually Tygett refers to the mage as the "enchanted" whatever. Sure his own likely enchantment is fucking with the brain meats, but everything about that phrasing pretty much takes it for granted that a magic user should be enslaved body and soul as a tool for their betters. Like birds sing, fishes swim and mages should be shackled to serve a nobles whims. Ugh. I'd say this is a pretty damn big deal too since in context Westeros is actually canonically very anti slavery. So ugghh.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Tywin's basically made it non-verboten to enslave mages (and more secretly enslave anyone else).

And people have just been letting him get away with it.
 
Just wait until we realize IC this is a plot made by the same Imps he thought "learnt their place". Extra points if Asmodeus promoted those guys later and let them extract as many resources as much as they could from the westernlands to fuel some other plan and give us a bloody nose.
 
ryuan said:
Just wait until we realize IC this is a plot made by the same Imps he thought "learnt their place". Extra points if Asmodeus promoted those guys later and let them extract as many resources as much as they could from the westernlands to fuel some other plan and give us a bloody nose.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
People have probably learned not to give us a small injury. We are rather vindictive.
 
Actually, you know what I just realized? Viserys and Co. follow the Valyrian Freehold's "school of disproportionate retribution".

Remember when the Rhoynar started a war with them over a killed turtle, and the Valyrians sent 300 dragons after them?

We are exactly the same level of "no chill".
 
Crake said:
Actually, you know what I just realized? Viserys and Co. follow the Valyrian Freehold's "school of disproportionate retribution".

Remember when the Rhoynar started a war with them over a killed turtle, and the Valyrians sent 300 dragons after them?

We are exactly the same level of "no chill".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Speaking of Rhoyne I recall that Prince Garin(or his corpse rather) was slain by our very own Archon of Volantis. The Rhoyne is also clear now I believe?
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Speaking of Rhoyne I recall that Prince Garin(or his corpse rather) was slain by our very own Archon of Volantis. The Rhoyne is also clear now I believe?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah initially when we thought we'd have to kill Zherys, we first tried to "box him in" by claiming the Three Daughters via conquest and having our allies (Mantarys and Tolos) on the other side. He took the third option of bringing back Meraxes and using her to empower freed slaves to conquer the Rhyone and drive out Garin. This both got him land and an incredibly loyal essentially private army.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top