These are not the grounds we're exploding people on?
I mean, my only worry is Cersei getting SuS or leaving with them.
Then half the caboom-y scheme fails right here.
I mean, it's mite hypocritical to think that just because we didn't order killing kids, none died as direct consequences of our (thread's/Viserys') deliberate actions by now.
Sure, it's LE thing to do at best and Stupid Evil at worst, but I think it's not straining what is 'resonable' in-setting/in-character.
Oh I know and if it gets voted like that I will write this as Viserys making and IC decision to kill him for expediency, just don't expect Viserys' character to come out unchanged from this because 'oh it's just Joffrey'. There was someone saying Jaimie was the only likable one so I felt the need to set the record straight.
I'm with this plan. Chuck a pokeball at the kid, toss it outside, and while everyone is screaming treachery and what not do our best Electrode impression.
Hell if that's too complicated hit him with a teleport spell and banish him somewhere, and then explode while they're attacking us for our betrayal.
Varys is a fucking bob-omb, so even if they kill him we win, long as Joffery is out of the blast zone everything is kosher.
No, it is not, and even Bloodraven recognizes that.
We've made plans to deal with Joffrey later, and so what if Jaime survives for now? Let him come after us, that's just more XP for our people later on.
Screw it. I'm tired of the ever same issue cropping up and it always being A Big Problem because that one kid we fuck over has a name and is on screen, as opposed to all the other naneless people we fuck over for expediency.
[X] Proceed as initially planned.
@Goldfish, @Crake, if it was OOC for Viserys to decide this, it wouldn't be an option.
I could care less about his name, and Jaime means nothing to me. It could be Joffrey in the room or some nameless serving boy with a wineskin, I would choose the option that gets them out of the room, because I think that would be Viserys' IC decision.
Yes, people have met unfortunate ends due to our actions and decisions, but that is very different than ordering the cold-blooded murder of a child for whom we have no animosity.
Screw it. I'm tired of the ever same issue cropping up and it always being A Big Problem because that one kid we fuck over has a name and is on screen, as opposed to all the other naneless people we fuck over for expediency.
Unless you're being hella sarcastic, you're being incredibly hypocritical.
Look back at all the horrible shit we've done.
Objectively, "a tear of a child"-arguments falls apart compared to the stuff we did, and keep doing regularly, for expidiency's sake as well.
I could care less about his name, and Jaime means nothing to me. It could be Joffrey in the room or some nameless serving not with a wineskin, I would choose the option that gets them out of the room, because I think that would be Viserys' IC decision.
Yes, people have met unfortunate ends due to our actions and decisions, but that is very different than ordering the cold-blooded murder of a child for whom we have no animosity.
If Joffrey wants to come at us, then I would have no mercy for him, just like I had none for F!Aegon. I went at him to kill and capture using the best means at our disposal, not to save him but to end the battle ASAP. And then we killed him. No worries there.
That is completely different than this situation.
If y'all want to postpone the explosion at the risk of Kevan not being present, I'm fine with that, too.
Not touching this conversation any further because I do not want to influence the vote unduly, but as it has been a while since we had anything approaching a morality vote I will remind you guys to play the ball not the person. Viserys choosing to kill Joffrey here would be a shift in his character but not one to great that it's not IC.
No, it is not, and even amoral Bloodraven recognizes that.
We've made plans to deal with Joffrey later, and so what if Jaime survives for now? Let him come after us, that's just more XP for our people later on.
When I said "for now", I meant that literally. Not that we would let him wander the realm after the conquest. He might not get exploded, but he's going to meet his end one way or another.
If Joffrey wants to come at us, then I would have no mercy for him, just like I had none for F!Aegon. I went at him to kill and capture using the best means at our disposal, not to save him but to end the battle ASAP. And then we killed him. No worries there.
That is completely different than this situation.
If y'all want to postpone the explosion at the risk of Kevan not being present, I'm fine with that, too.
Maybe not you, but I keenly remember how much effort it took to get Faegon sacrificed, so I'm not eager to see if we start violating the Evil Overlord list over Joffrey instead.
Try again later. That was the basic part of the plan.
Of all the people that could get away, Kevan is the most predictable. Either he stays with Tywin in Casterly Rock, or he returns to Kings Landing as regent. Meanwhile, he is no high-level character, so his personal power is limited.
We can capture and execute him, or just arrange for him dying in battle.
Jaime is a high-level wildcard though and the last thing we need right now is one of those.
Bloodraven is a dual sorcerer druid mainlining divine power, assume he has wishes to burn, especially since he does not care is the body survives casting for long.
So, I'm possibly mistaken on how the character of Viserys is portrayed due to me not participating in the thread basically ay all and really only spectating but I was always under the impression that we generally tried to not do more damage than necessary? Like, I know exactly zero of the steps contingencies and plans that got us here and are in position to take us even further so I'm absolutely possibly mistaken on how much of a shitshow leaving jeoffrey alive would be. But in the end, I find it more pleasant to read a chill when not ruinously damaging Viserys. If this causes problems in thread, then I will be the first to bow back to the long time contributors who will have a more comprehensive view of the world than I.
[X] Persuade the Kinglasyer to take Joffrey out of the room before the explosion, leaving them both alive in the aftermath
Bloodraven is a dual sorcerer wizard mainlining divine power, assume he has wishes to burn, especially since he does not care is the body survives casting for long.
Of all the people that could get away, Kevan is the most predictable. Either he stays with Tywin in Casterly Rock, or he returns to Kings Landing as regent. Meanwhile, he is no high-level character, so his personal power is limited.
We can capture and execute him, or just arrange for him dying in battle.
Jaime is a high-level wildcard though and the last thing we need right now is one of those.
Okay, fucking fine.
Wanna leave it for later? Sure, whatever.
But this argument aggravates me to no end.
Let's see all the objectively horrible and immoral things we purposefully did:
1) Rewriting people's personalities (Tor)
2) Soul-killing people that arguably could be turned away from their ways (F!Aegon and his party)
3) Massive amounts of blameless people being killed for our own comfort, when we could have taken another way out (Lyseni takeover, one with the massive army dying at our hands. Also generally happened with all the people in all of Free Cities).
4) Do I even need to point out that killing whole courts full of 'innocent' Fey could be seen as an act of Genocide?
And that's just the cut of the on-screen decisions.
Did our invasions not conclude in some children dying?
Did us dropping the ship-rot on Lannistport not destroy the livelihoods of hundreds of innocents?
Or that we choose to play both sides of Yi-Ti conflict, having saved the asses of both the Emperors, and prolonging the conflict and deaths for who knows how much longer?
All I'm saying is, we're not moral.
The "killing children is crossing the line!" is incredibly duplicitous, and it always causes OOC salt whenever there's the slightest chance a child may get hurt.
Get over it, people.
It isn't a line Viserys won't cross, just one he doesn't really want to.
