- Location
- Germany
@DragonParadox, when we are back in the time-warp, how precisely can we navigate our temporal displacement?
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I've got an idea, ya'll, though admittedly there is a lot of speculation.
We know there is a Deep Ones operated Chronomancy research facility somewhere beneath the northern ocean of Planetos. But why? If there are already powerful Aboleth Chronomancers 5,000+ years in the past capable of temporal shenanigans like we've seen recently, presumably including causing the time loop we invited ourselves into, a Chronomancy research center on Planetos in our present time doesn't make a lot of sense.
Here's my thought; that place isn't so much a research facility as it is a purpose built time machine, one with a very clear goal to perpetuate the time loop through which the Deep Ones gained a toehold in the Material Plane and birthed the Drowned God.
It happened before, so it will happen again, but only if they make it happen. So they did, and we got caught up in the backwash when we tried to find the ritual site beneath Old Wyk.
The Chronomancer and his Illithid buddy are from our time, and the reason that our attempt to divine the Aboleth's location isn't just that it's behind adequate wards, but that it has returned to the present.
We know there is a Deep Ones operated Chronomancy research facility somewhere beneath the northern ocean of Planetos. But why? If there are already powerful Aboleth Chronomancers 5,000+ years in the past capable of temporal shenanigans like we've seen recently, presumably including causing the time loop we invited ourselves into, a Chronomancy research center on Planetos in our present time doesn't make a lot of sense.
Here's my thought; that place isn't so much a research facility as it is a purpose built time machine, one with a very clear goal to perpetuate the time loop through which the Deep Ones gained a toehold in the Material Plane and birthed the Drowned God.
It happened before, so it will happen again, but only if they make it happen. So they did, and we got caught up in the backwash when we tried to find the ritual site beneath Old Wyk.
The Chronomancer and his Illithid buddy are from our time, and the reason that our attempt to divine the Aboleth's location isn't just that it's behind adequate wards, but that it has returned to the present.
It's empty and hollow feeling because we're trying to use flesh belonging to a creature that's millennia in the future.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I RATE YOU!
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I wonder if we can catch the time wave/tunnel/loop/whatever and ride it just a bit further into the past, perhaps even just an hour, so that we could be waiting for the Chronomancer when it flees to trigger the tidal wave?
@DragonParadox, is this something Viserys and the others believe might be possible, maybe with the aid of the Ferryman and/or the Old Gods?
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Grievances aired, can think more now.
Ferryman: least changes done to the future by interacting, least able of our Gods to help as well.
Old Gods: most capable of our Gods to help (still not helpful enough by comparison to the Assholeth), rather huge ripples to the future if they retain memory of the meeting.
God forbid they try and 'groom' Viserys as the ally they meet in the 'now'.
Yss: Probably can help? Is also the most alien of our Gods, and we know jack shit about his state in this time. Could straight up try and fuck with us, maybe not much change in time.
Also arguably the easiest to 'trade' with here, but nowhere near his fiturezseld with the domain we made him get.
If Ferryman falls through, it stands to reason that we should look into the state of Yss right in the 'now'.
...andd maybe ditch the Old Gods' staff for a bit. If he's one of the 3 andal gods that fought it with OGs...
[X] Plan: "Well, shit"
-[X] Seek out Merling King/Ferryman. Prepare the full Willsave buffs for surety just in case.
--[X] Also pointedly take effort for maximum disguise. Apply actual disguise under the Cloak of Khyber, with all bonuses possible. Better not risk with a God.
--[X] Hand the staff of the Old Gods to Qyburn.
--[X] Short: "Am an ally coming from far future to fight the damn Squids. A Chronomancer of theirs got away, but not before I got a bunch of his flesh. Need help getting the bastard, lest all of future is fucked, yours likely included".
---[X] "Even so much as directions to someone best capable would be appreciated at this point"
-[X] Qyburn and the Myrkdreki will attempt to discern the state of Yss as a Deity at this moment, and whether or not we can trust this version of him with the issue we're presenting.
Ferryman: least changes done to the future by interacting, least able of our Gods to help as well.
Old Gods: most capable of our Gods to help (still not helpful enough by comparison to the Assholeth), rather huge ripples to the future if they retain memory of the meeting.
God forbid they try and 'groom' Viserys as the ally they meet in the 'now'.
Yss: Probably can help? Is also the most alien of our Gods, and we know jack shit about his state in this time. Could straight up try and fuck with us, maybe not much change in time.
Also arguably the easiest to 'trade' with here, but nowhere near his fiturezseld with the domain we made him get.
If Ferryman falls through, it stands to reason that we should look into the state of Yss right in the 'now'.
...andd maybe ditch the Old Gods' staff for a bit. If he's one of the 3 andal gods that fought it with OGs...
[X] Plan: "Well, shit"
-[X] Seek out Merling King/Ferryman. Prepare the full Willsave buffs for surety just in case.
--[X] Also pointedly take effort for maximum disguise. Apply actual disguise under the Cloak of Khyber, with all bonuses possible. Better not risk with a God.
--[X] Hand the staff of the Old Gods to Qyburn.
--[X] Short: "Am an ally coming from far future to fight the damn Squids. A Chronomancer of theirs got away, but not before I got a bunch of his flesh. Need help getting the bastard, lest all of future is fucked, yours likely included".
---[X] "Even so much as directions to someone best capable would be appreciated at this point"
-[X] Qyburn and the Myrkdreki will attempt to discern the state of Yss as a Deity at this moment, and whether or not we can trust this version of him with the issue we're presenting.
- Location
- Germany
Well, the relativly mundane explanation would be that even ancient Chronomancers need a lab to work with.
And time is a sufficiently complicated field that even after many millenia of working with it you have to do very careful research before trying anything dangerous like creating a time-loop or travelling into the past.
You guys left a trail of enchanted scales for just that purpose, apart from that Qyburn has some innate sense of navigating in Far-Realm Warped areas whether in time or space.
- Location
- Germany
Precisely what I want to do. All we need is to be next to him when he Teleports away, then use Shenanigans to instead force him to reappear in an ambush site.
That will require a lot of fine manipulation but it's theoretically possible.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Alrighty then, sold.
This is fucky as all hell.
Time-travel to catch a time-traveller travelling in time...
We're so deep in paradox'ing we're really lucky Ineviyables are fucked
- Location
- Germany
@egoo
I think I have a possible solution. Now that Goldfish mentioned it, we do know where the Squids have their time-related laboratories.
We could try to go there now.
Even if we don't find the Chronomancer we could at least get some insight in their research and crack some other researcher's heads open (Literally and figurativly) to find out more about how these time-shenenigans work.
If we have his lab-notes so to say, I'm reasonably optimistic we could stop the Chronomancer from messing with us before we are capable of doing something about it.
I think I have a possible solution. Now that Goldfish mentioned it, we do know where the Squids have their time-related laboratories.
We could try to go there now.
Even if we don't find the Chronomancer we could at least get some insight in their research and crack some other researcher's heads open (Literally and figurativly) to find out more about how these time-shenenigans work.
If we have his lab-notes so to say, I'm reasonably optimistic we could stop the Chronomancer from messing with us before we are capable of doing something about it.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Plan Stabbing Through Time
-[X] Have Qyburn use Psychic Reformation to learn Divert Teleportation.
-[X] Travel back in time for a few hours and prepare an ambush site on an empty island nearby.
-[X] Have Qyburn and one of the Twins move to the battle once it occurs, shrouded in Viserys Superior Invisibility and with Aufes extra Mindblank, then sneak to the place where the Aboleth fled from.
-[X] When the Aboleth flees, have Qyburn Divert Teleportation to send him straight into the prepared killzone, with the Myrkdreki using Alter Fortune to aid him.
-[X] Have Qyburn use Psychic Reformation to learn Divert Teleportation.
-[X] Travel back in time for a few hours and prepare an ambush site on an empty island nearby.
-[X] Have Qyburn and one of the Twins move to the battle once it occurs, shrouded in Viserys Superior Invisibility and with Aufes extra Mindblank, then sneak to the place where the Aboleth fled from.
-[X] When the Aboleth flees, have Qyburn Divert Teleportation to send him straight into the prepared killzone, with the Myrkdreki using Alter Fortune to aid him.
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- Location
- Germany
What if the wave was prepared before the ritual?
As Goldfish noted, the spell takes a long time to cast normally.
Worst case we run into a fresh Chronomancer before he can fight us over at the ritual-site and paradox our last battle out of the continuity.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Do it in the 'now': Loads of ripples we canr even begin to predict, it's a major illithid base in the future.
Assuming there even is one lab here in this point of time.
Do it in the "future" that is our timeline: too late, we're already in the changed timeline because we've left the past and the Aboleth had millenia to (un)subtly fuck with us by going back to it and changing things here and there.
Doesn't have Richard literally stab it through time, 0/10.
We'd have mere minutes to go back to our timeline after this, though, the ritual with the Yss-staff takes, what, only 10 minutes?
Plus-minus 10 with the Ironborn before it.
We can't risk this timeframe getting paradox'ed.
So, uh, do we look for Heart Trees before doing the time-travel then, or fuck it?
- Location
- Germany
I don't mean to intercept him from the ritual, but when he fled, badly wounded, from combat.
If we take him then, he never had a chance to retaliate against us and we get a stable time loop instead of horrible paradoxa.
It doesn't know who we are. Ergo it can't fuck with us.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Dude, it's a time-traveller, and we're a major figure in ours.
And we made it very angery.
Like, personal nemesis-angery.
So what if it spends a century to find us through Aboleths' shared time-spannig memory, it can always time-travel to have that time back!
It is a fallacy to assume anonymity with things like that.
By the way, I'm not catching it clearly enough.
Was the dragon supposed to die in this point of time? @DragonParadox?
It isn't just us getting time-loop'ed, did the Aboleth fuck with stuff in the future by doing it here?
Because we might want to rezz the dragon, to minimize whatever damage Aboleth did.
People seem to be panicking but it could just be a closed time loop. It has always happened this way.
It maybe a time traveler but it can't pull information out of the air, we have left no proof and are under mindblank.
We maybe a major figure in our time but we also have like a dozen gods in that time period, any time shenanigans near our time should be easy to detect.
It maybe a time traveler but it can't pull information out of the air, we have left no proof and are under mindblank.
We maybe a major figure in our time but we also have like a dozen gods in that time period, any time shenanigans near our time should be easy to detect.
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- Location
- Germany
Yes, I understood that was the intent.
But I mean it is possible that he came to the location where he cast Tidal Wave before the entire ritual started, that he didn't actually flee here. Tidal Wave takes ten minutes to cast and could (at a high caster level) be on the way for quite a long time, enough to pull of the ritual and fight us.
So if that was the case, we would have to fight the fully healed Chronomancer before he joins the ritual and fights us over it.
Based on this guess:
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Similar to my idea, but Qyburn's save DC is too low.
Instead, we should have Aife, along with Lya and a Myrkrdreki all under Superior Invisibility waiting for the Chronomancer to flee. The Myrkdreki can keep them Incorporeal while they wait.
Right before it flees, Aife uses Miracle to his it with a 30th level (+4 caster level from Bead of Karma and +6 from Moment of Greatness'd Encouraging Harmonic Chorus cast by Lya Baleful Teleport after she uses Assay Spell Resistance. As a Miracle'd spell, it will have a save DC commiserate with a 9th level spell, so a base DC of 36 for Aife, but with another +6 from Lya's spell boosting her. Let's see that fucker resist a 40th caster level and DC 42 Will save. And if it does, Lya and the Myrkdreki will both be there to use Alter Fortune.
The Baleful Teleport will be pointing at an Arcane Mark for maximum familiarity, one placed where we choose and within 55 feet of Viserys' Greater Anticipate Teleportation effect. Viserys will feel the Chronomancer coming and be able to delay its arrival for three rounds. That will give Aife and the others time to return to our position and for Viserys to use Wild Arcana to cast that Tidal Wave spell at minimum caster level.
The Chronomancer appears in our Teleport Trap with everyone waiting for it, right into the teeth of Aife's boosted DC 33 Invoke the Cerulean Sign or whatever other goodies we prepare.
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egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
...okay, when?
Name a single time-loop we've been privy to in the quest's confines.
Mass-media and other DnD sources don't count, the quest might well have different rules from later after Void did shit with Heaven and disbalanced the Reality out of alignment with all other stuff.
The Seer that fled from Valyria?
We made a paradox by talking to her.
Could have made a hella larger one, too.
No other examples..?
From what we see so far, there is no reason to assume causality will snap back in place, we arent the ones who made the time-travel here, the Aboleth is.
Ugh.
Time-travel is fucky.