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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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You forgot their faithful ally and occasional sidekick Ysilla Royce.

Granted, her appearance is mostly a way to drum up support for her own show, where she will solve mysteries together with Glyra, Reva, Lysette and Leto.
 
Azel said:
Lyanna has no particular right to burden her son with her mental issues, or to smother him by being present 24/7 in his head.

So, no. The undead teenage girl that plunged an entire continent into war with her bad decisions and her young son don't get a say in this matter. Maybe Ned gets to have an opinion here. As long as it's the right one.
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Ehhhhhh I agree with the smothering part, but I honestly do feel Rhaegar, Aerys, hell even Brandon Stark deserve much more of the blame for that fiasco. Like she was 14-15 when Rhaegar first glommed onto her so it feels like hearing about a Teacher banging one of the students and then blaming the middle/high school student when the story comes out.
 
A_Somebody said:
Ehhhhhh I agree with the smothering part, but I honestly do feel Rhaegar, Aerys, hell even Brandon Stark deserve much more of the blame for that fiasco. Like she was 14-15 when Rhaegar first glommed onto her so it feels like hearing about a Teacher banging one of the students and then blaming the middle/high school student when the story comes out.
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She wasn't abducted though, but willingly eloped with him, knowing full well just how much of a mess she was making in the process. Casting her as the innocent victim is grossly missing the mark.
 
A_Somebody said:
Ehhhhhh I agree with the smothering part, but I honestly do feel Rhaegar, Aerys, hell even Brandon Stark deserve much more of the blame for that fiasco. Like she was 14-15 when Rhaegar first glommed onto her so it feels like hearing about a Teacher banging one of the students and then blaming the middle/high school student when the story comes out.
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The thing is, nobles in Westeros are considered adults by the law and by traditional standards by like, 11. Or whenever they can talk and are cognizant of the consequences of their actions, which could be as early as age 9 depending on how high their status is.

As a former Kingdom-tier Great House scion, Lyanna Stark has higher standards to adhere to than a modern teenage girl in high school.
 
Azel said:
You forgot their faithful ally and occasional sidekick Ysilla Royce.

Granted, her appearance is mostly a way to drum up support for her own show, where she will solve mysteries together with Glyra, Reva, Lysette and Leto.
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They will be starring in Saved by the Spell, a Saturday morning Mirror program aimed toward young teens, especially girls, about a gaggle of childhood friends attendining a prestigious prepatory academy prior to enrolling in the Scholarium. Leto will play the stern, yet wise Headmistress who tries to keep the girls out of trouble while dispensing valuable life lessons about such topics as boys, spells, and Infernal contract law.
 
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I am of the opinion that, while some of the blame is on her, a larger portion of blame is on Rhaegar and Aerys. One for the "kidnapping" and the other for the massive escalation.
 
Azel said:
She wasn't abducted though, but willingly eloped with him, knowing full well just how much of a mess she was making in the process. Casting her as the innocent victim is grossly missing the mark.
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Yeah but if I remember right she didn't choose to stay with him, that's why she's so angry at Rhaegar, because the moment she found out that their eloping had started a war, she wanted to go and try to stop it, but Rhaegar refused and locked her up in the tower of joy.

Lyanna was stupid in eloping with Rhaegar, but she had no idea it would cause something like a war, and once she found out it did, she wanted to stop the war, so yeah she made some wrong choices, but if it hadn't been for Rhaegar betraying her, she would have done her best to stop the war.
 
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Part MMMDCLXV: Counsel of Dragons
  • Threadmarks
    • Counsel of Dragons ​

    First Day of the Fourth Month 294 AC

    You are in the middle of looking over reports from the War of Three Spheres and about half an hour from going south when news from Winterfell arrives and your blood runs cold from it. There had been an attack. A servant of Winter had breached the castle's wards and before its death had slain Eddard Stark's son and heir in an attempt to breach the crypts and make use of the dead therein for some foul purpose. Worse, Jon had been in a fight. Of course he had been in a fight, a part of you that keeps track of all the times you have rushed ahead into peril over the years notes. He is your nephew after all.

    According to the leshy who had been present for the battle, summoned back to Sorcerer's Deep in person to report under the guide of prayer, the assassin sneaked in as far as the kitchen where he had slain Robb Stark hoping to do his work in secret, though he had missed the shadowcat who was watching and raised the alarm. That the lord himself had been more ready to listen to such a strange messenger than his armsmen is hardly surprising from what you know of the man, though you doubt he had expected Jon to try and hold the entrance to the crypts alone... or rather with Lyanna's aid.

    Eddard Stark had lost his son and seen has dead sister seemingly rise from the dead to fight his killer all in the span of moments, and as though that were not cause enough to shake the man he has also discovered that you had eyes in Winterfell for months. Moreover...

    "He hasn't found out Baratheon is dead?" You ask with a sigh, not quite sure what to make of it.

    "No," Dany who had heard the news first from the dreams of an exhausted Jon confirms. "It might still be on its way or it might be up in the Maester's tower waiting to be taken off the bird. Luwin is with Lord and Lady Stark trying to make sense of what happened to Robb. Jon... didn't take it well. I think it might be his first time seeing death and to have it be someone so close to him... well I would recommend a mind healer, but they don't have those in Winterfell yet, do they?"

    "How is he, exactly I mean?" you ask concerned. You should have put more protectors in place and to Hells with secrecy and with age old wards. Jon is family and you almost lost him to the assassin's blade.

    "Shocked, part of him just doesn't want to believe it happened," she replies. "I didn't promise him anything because it's Winter and the Power behind it. I did not want to offer false hope lest I make it worse."

    "We are going to have to tell him and Lord Stark something and soon before he comes up with his own ideas, though how much and how to frame it..." you trail off.

    "Cleave close to the truth," your mother speaks up for the first time since arriving a few minutes after Dany. "Yes you spied on him, but it was for the boy's protection, which has proven its worth, and to avoid putting him in an impossible situation politically. A situation which is no longer relevant," she finishes delicately.

    "Because the Usurper died without heirs you mean?" Dany tilts her head in askance. "Would he believe that? It's awfully convenient, almost as much as the timing."

    "He has seen spies in Winterfell, why not the Red Keep?" Your mother counters. "The implication will keep him honest." She must have read something of your misgivings on your face because she adds. "I will be grateful to the man for keeping Rhaegar's son safe until the day I die, but that does not mean I unreservedly trust the Usurper's closest friend."

    You had not thought of it like that, mostly because you trust your read of the Lord of Winterfell, both of character and lack of aptitude in treachery. "What of Lyanna?" you change the subject a touch hesitantly. All well to speak of 'Rhaegar's son' but the events that lead to his birth had not been happy ones, and they reflect poorly indeed upon your brother's legacy. Still, you trust that your mother will be able to give council beyond her feelings on the matter.

    It is Dany who answers. "Take her out of his head, give her life again somehow. Lord Stark will want his sister alive, Jon would likely be better off with her present in flesh and not constantly in his ear. Without Baratheon..."

    "Without Baratheon all things are easier," you finish, "But easier does not mean easy, does it?"

    Who do you take to Winterfell and how do you greet Lord Stark?

    [] Write in

    OOC: I tried writing the visit directly, but it just felt too abrupt with me having to explain a lot of potions and feelings all in Viserys' head so I decided to write this up first.
     
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    • tarrangar said:
    Yeah but if I remember right she didn't choose to stay with him, that's why she's so angry at Rhaegar, because the moment she found out that their eloping had started a war, she wanted to go and try to stop it, but Rhaegar refused and locked her up in the tower of joy.

    Lyanna was stupid in eloping with Rhaegar, but she had no idea it would cause something like a war, and once she found out it did, she wanted to stop the war, so yeah she made some wrong choices, but if it hadn't been for Rhaegar betraying her, she would have done her best to stop the war.
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    I never said it's solely her fault.

    The whole mess is the result of Lyanna and Brandon being brash idiots who didn't think about the consequences of their actions, and Rhaegar and Aerys being different brands of insane. If any one of those four had gotten their shit together, there wouldn't have been a war.

    But I'm very much not a fan of many casting the Starks as blameless victims of others. They did a great deal of the heavy lifting necessary to get the burning shitball rolling, and they were all old enough that you can expect them to think about the consequences of what they do.
     
    Azel said:
    I never said it's solely her fault.

    The whole mess is the result of Lyanna and Brandon being brash idiots who didn't think about the consequences of their actions, and Rhaegar and Aerys being different brands of insane. If any one of those four had gotten their shit together, there wouldn't have been a war.

    But I'm very much not a fan of many casting the Starks as blameless victims of others. They did a great deal of the heavy lifting necessary to get the burning shitball rolling, and they were all old enough that you can expect them to think about the consequences of what they do.
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    Definitely agree with this, though in the hierarchy of Stark blame I'd say it goes Brandon (he was the bloody heir and the one screaming treason outside the mad king's door) -> Rikard (What did he think Aerys would do one he was in the king's power?) -> Lyanna (both the youngest and the most sheltered).
     
    Rickard thought his son would be sent to the wall and he would get some sanctions, at most they both would be sent to the wall since Brandon did the most pathetic attempt at "coup" in the kingdom story.

    EVERYONE was caught off guard when Aeris decided to give one of them a Wyldfire drink and the other self-strangled in a jigsaw execution.
     
    ryuan said:
    Rickard thought his son would be sent to the wall and he would get some sanctions, at most they both would be sent to the wall since Brandon did the most pathetic attempt at "coup" in the kingdom story.

    EVERYONE was caught off guard when Aeris decided to give one of them a Wyldfire drink and the other self-strangled in a jigsaw execution.
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    The king was blatantly unstable, all you would have to do is look his uncut beard and nails, remember why that was and you would have gotten a decent idea of Aerys' motivations. Rikard was arrogant, he thought surely a Great Lord could not be killed the same way as petty nobles, as servants, he was wrong.

    The Wildfire may have beeen hard to guess at, the execution was not IMO
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Counsel of Dragons ​

    First Day of the Fourth Month 294 AC

    You are in the middle of looking over reports from the War of Three Spheres, and about half and hour from going south, when news from Winterfell arrives and your blood runs cold from it. There had been an attack. A servant of Winter had breached the wards and before his death had slain Eddard Stark's son and heir in an attempt to breach the crypts and make use of the dead therein for some foul purpose. Worse, Jon had been in a fight. Of course he had been in a fight, notes a part of you that keeps track of all the times you have rushed ahead into peril over the years. He is your nephew, after all.

    According to the leshy who had been present for the battle, summoned back to Sorcerer's Deep in person to report under the guide of prayer, the assassin sneaked in as far as the kitchen where he had slain Rob Stark hoping to do his work in secret, though he had missed the Shadow Cat who was watching and raised the alarm. That the lord himself had been more ready to listen to such a strange messenger than his armsmen is hardly surprising from what you know of the man, though you doubt he had expected Jon to try to hold the entrance to the crypts alone... or rather with Lyanna's aid.

    Eddard Stark had lost his son and seen has dead sister seemingly rise from the dead to fight his killer, all in the span of moments, and as though that were not cause enough to shake the man, he has also discovered that you had eyes in Winterfell for months. Moreover...

    "He hasn't found out Baratheon is dead?" You ask with a sigh, not quite sure what to make of it.

    "No," confirms Dany, who had heard the news first from the dreams of an exhausted Jon. "It might still be on its way or it might be up in the Maester's tower waiting to be taken off the bird. Luwyn is with Lord and Lady Stark trying to make sense of what happened to Robb. Jon... didn't take it well. I think it might be his first time seeing death and to have it be someone so close to him. Well, I would recommend a mind healer, but they don't have those in Winterfell yet, do they?"

    "How is he, exactly, I mean?" you ask concerned. You should have put more protectors in place and to Hells with secrecy and with age old wards. Jon is family and you almost lost him to the assassin's blade.

    "Shocked, part of him just doesn't want to believe it happened," she replies. "I didn't promise him anything because it's Winter and the Power behind it. I did not want to offer false hope lest I make it worse."

    "We are going to have to tell him and Lord Stark something and soon, before he comes up with his own ideas, though how much and how to frame it..." you trail off.

    "Cleave close to the truth," your mother speaks up for the first time since arriving a few minutes after Dany. "Yes, you spied on him, but it was for the boy's protection, which has proven its worth, and to avoid putting him in an impossible situation politically. A situation which is no longer relevant," she finishes delicately.

    "Because the Usurper died without heirs, you mean?" Dany tilts her head in askance. "Would he believe that? It's awfully convenient, almost as much as the timing."

    "He has seen spies in Winterfell, why not the Red Keep?" Your mother counters. "The implication will keep him honest." She must have read something of your misgivings on your face, because she adds, "I will be grateful to the man for keeping Rhaegar's son safe until the day I die, but that does not mean I unreservedly trust the Usurper's closest friend."

    You had not thought of it like that, mostly because you trust your read of the Lord of Winterfell, both of character and lack of aptitude in treachery. "What of Lyanna?" you change the subject a touch hesitantly. All well to speak of 'Rahegar's son', but the events that lead to his birth had not been happy ones, and they reflect poorly indeed upon your brother's legacy. Still, you trust that your mother will be able to give council beyond her feelings on the matter.

    It is Dany who answers. "Take her out of his head, give her life again somehow. Lord Stark will want his sister alive, Jon would likely be better off with her present in flesh and not constantly in his ear. Without Baratheon..."

    "Without Baratheon all things are easier," you finish, "But easier does not mean easy does it?"

    Who do you take to Winterfell and how do you greet Lord Stark?

    [] Write in

    OOC: I tried writing the visit directly, but it just felt too abrupt with me having to explain a lot of potions and feelings all in Viserys' head so I decided to write this up first. Not yet edited.
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    Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
     
    Yeah gonna have to agree with dragon paradox on this one, Lyanna was stupid but she was also young and scared and while that doesn't make her blameless she does get some forgiveness.

    Rickard by contrast was supposed to be the Lord paramount and should have gone with a great procession and called in the Tullys and Arryns before charging in.
     
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