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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
That's the point. Since they are summons, not called, everyone with a marginal amount of arcane knowledge will see that they were a distraction. Thus, by using Devils, we make it look as if someone was trying to blame us for this.
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I don't get it. Won't the Ibbenese simply agree that it is us and base their future interactions on that knowledge? Why they would disbelieve that kind of rumor?
 
ryuan said:
I don't get it. Won't the Ibbenese simply agree that it is us and base their future interactions on that knowledge? Why they would disbelieve that kind of rumor?
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Because we have devils in our service, why would we appear in some random feast and summon devils? Why would we need them when we already have our own?

Honestly its highly unlikely their first thought is that some summoned devils made a mess of a manse. Killed the owner right after his party, well its obviously the dragon king.

Because it was so random to begin with there is nothing tying this to us, devil summoning as shown isnt actually too hard nowadays.
 
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ryuan said:
I don't get it. Won't the Ibbenese simply agree that it is us and base their future interactions on that knowledge? Why they would disbelieve that kind of rumor?
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Because we make them disbelieve it if necessary.

Look. We can't control in any way what they will or will not assume after these events. It's insane to think that we could manage that.
What we can do though is to prepare evidence to defend ourselves if they actually come to us.

If there is serious damage in a place, apparently caused by a high-level strike team, then blaming one of the few powers with known arch-mage tier assets is logical.
But the use of the Devils muddies the waters. You can construe it as evidence of our involvement, true, but at the same time, we can use it as a defense against such claims by arguing that it is a shoddy attempt at blaming us. They were not our properly bound Devils, they were not deployed alongside other assets of ours that are harder to fake, such as fleshforged creatures or Necrocrafts, they were not following our usual MO, and so on and so forth.

We can't really avoid being blamed, but we can give ourselves some more ammo to deflect blame.
 
Azel said:
We can't really avoid being blamed, but we can give ourselves some more ammo to deflect blame.
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Honestly think its a stretch for anyone to seriously blame this on us. Devil summoning is happening everywhere to begin with. Also its not like this was that a high profile party. There would be no sense in us striking here. We wouldn't be here without the Daemon.

I just don't see any serious politican, noble etc seeing this minor feast being interrupted by devils as something that makes sense to have been us.

Edit : That of course doesn't account for someone blaming us to try and rally others against us in an opportunistic manner even though believing it wasnt, so suppose Azel is right in a way.
 
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CandyCoatedChaos said:
Honestly think its a stretch for anyone to seriously blame this on us. Devil summoning is happening everywhere to begin with. Also its not like this was that a high profile party. There would be no sense in us striking here. We wouldn't be here without the Daemon.

I just don't see any serious politican, noble etc seeing this minor feast being interrupted by devils as something that makes sense to have been us.
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Precisely my point. Anyone using a link this tenuous to level serious allegations at us would have done so anyway, but instead having to defend against some unknown evidence they will dig up / manufacture from whole cloth, we now already know what the loudest argument will likely be and can start dismantling it easily. It will help us to get to know who in Ibben is inclined to think badly of us and who is gullible enough to fall for this nonsense as opposed to hedging their bets and looking for better vectors of attack.

The art of intrigue is not about having information or not having it, but about managing interactions. Any interaction that we can dictate to happen in a certain fashion is good for us.
 
There is also the simple fact that Devils have been highly active in Essos for years now. Anyone immediately leaping to blame us is probably just looking for an excuse to blame us anyway.

None of the Devils I have in the plan are extremely high level, either. Any 13th level spellcaster can Summon the Bone Devils, and Bearded Devils only need a 9th level spellcaster. Neither of these really grows on trees, but there are plenty of them out in the world now or among the Planes, so it's hardly a smoking gun pointing in our direction if anyone realizes they were Summoned by mortals rather than being used by other Devils for some purpose.
 
I find it amusing that this might actually more then any inquisitor base, show us who our major opponents and backers in Ibben is for eventual folding into the realm.

Just by who is crying the loudest that this was us and who proclaims it ridiculous.

Thank you Daemon, even in capture you help us out more then just your eventual corpse or bookform will.
 
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CandyCoatedChaos said:
I find it amusing that this might actually more then any inquisitor base, show us who our major opponents and backers in Ibben is for eventual folding into the realm.

Just by who is crying the loudest that this was us and who proclaims it ridiculous.

Thank you Daemon, even in capture you help us out more then just your eventual corpse or bookform will.
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Which is precisely why I keep sowing the seeds of anti-Viserys factions everywhere we go.

The harvest has always been bountiful.
 
Azel said:
Which is precisely why I keep sowing the seeds of anti-Viserys factions everywhere we go.

The harvest has always been bountiful.
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That is.... Genius! Hah, what a clever way to identify your enemies without hassle. Give them the rope to hang themselves.

And then we swoop in and seem so much more reasonable then those anti-Viserys kooks and take all the spoils.

I guess that's actually been happening all quest just never saw it laid out so plainly. Azel you evil genius!
 
CandyCoatedChaos said:
That is.... Genius! Hah, what a clever way to identify your enemies without hassle. Give them the rope to hang themselves.

And then we swoop in and seem so much more reasonable then those anti-Viserys kooks and take all the spoils.

I guess that's actually been happening all quest just never saw it laid out so plainly. Azel you evil genius!
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You probably didn't read the discussions about the Archon of Tyrosh and Aedon of Lys since I definitely laid it out quiet explicitly how I used the two dipshits to get rid of a lot of enemies in that fashion.
 
Azel said:
You probably didn't read the discussions about the Archon of Tyrosh and Aedon of Lys since I definitely laid it out quiet explicitly how I used the two dipshits to get rid of a lot of enemies in that fashion.
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Yes, to be honest I skimmed a lot of tyrosh and Lys discussions due to rampant stupidity of their magisters and Aedon making me annoyed to no end, I must have missed it, or forgotten it as I didn't remember that strategy in this way until you pointed it out.

Still frikkin genius.
 
Duesal said:
I'm still impressed that Aedon managed to displace Aurane Waters as the stupidest man in the entire quest.
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I will have to go back and reread some of that. I remember his incredible stupidity from the chapters but have a feeling I missed a lot of interesting discussions regarding it skimming through, because rampant stupidity makes my brain go ows.
 
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Azel said:
That tends to breed resentment though so we generally try not to use it unless someone is too thick to understand the subtler hints.
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True, its just not nearly as satisfying as roasting half of the thickheads alive instead of negotiating with them.

There are several lords sworn to us in westeros that I wouldn't have shed tears over if we "accidentally" breathed too hard on and set them on fire.

Diplomacy is great, except for the large amount of shitheads you have to keep around.

Well rebellions for being too mean or shitheads through diplo makes it so the shitheads are more preferable sadly. I want to burn some damn westerosi dammit!
 
Viserys' whole modus operandi is basically, "I could make you do this, but instead I've convinced you that it's in your best interests".

Force works, until it doesn't.

But mutual self interest manages itself, most of the time.
 
Crake said:
Viserys' whole modus operandi is basically, "I could make you do this, but instead I've convinced you that it's in your best interests".

Force works, until it doesn't.

But mutual self interest manages itself, most of the time.
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Mhmm, totally understand it. Just not as much fun!

Edit : Of course if I had been around since the beginning and been only voter we would also had died very soon from me wanting to have fun.
 
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Think about it like this, if you demonstrate a willingness to use force to coerce someone into complying with your demands, you have to use exactly that amount of force each time from now on... and people will eventually call your bluff. And then you have to follow through. And then after that you have to threaten everyone with the exact same amount of force. And when you follow through, and it doesn't work, you now have to escalate.

It's like a negative feedback loop. There's no winning.
 
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