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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
Paired with how @egoo keeps despairing about the work required to make the orders and how I can never keep the prices straight, I'd say there is some trouble to the matter.
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That is more of a formatting issue, I believe. Arranging groups, keeping spoiler tabs straight, etc. This became a lot more of a hassle since the last big forum upgrade.

Pricing is all explained on my Forge Mechanics page.
 
Goldfish said:
That is more of a formatting issue, I believe. Arranging groups, keeping spoiler tabs straight, etc. This became a lot more of a hassle since the last big forum upgrade.

Pricing is all explained on my Forge Mechanics page.
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I'll see about making something that takes care of that, including spitting out preformatted text for the forum. Much like how my Anti-Grav vessel designer works and spits out the code for the fleet design infopost.

Maybe this weekend, but definitely before the next forge order.
 
@Azel, I greatly appreciate the notion, but don't take up a workload on my behalf.
Compiling orders is easy - it was hard to throw everything together to start doing so, really.

I will work on our "Assignment of Spacial Forces" tab tonight.

Everything's gonna be converted to standardized units.
All of "Free Forces" go straight to Inquisition, since there's no difference for when we want to assign some during a turnvote, and it's not like theres an institution who'll use them all better if need arises

That done, keeping track of new stuff is gonna be eez.
What I have zero idea about working with is, indeed, the mark-ups and discounts from dead bodies.
I kinda rely on @Goldfish to do that or we will just pay straight price if he doesn't.
...Crake may die tho.

Incedentally, @DragonParadox, those squad/army-fighting mechanics coming together anyhow?
We prolly should look for something very, very basic that would allow us to treat any squad (of creatures or constructs, mortals aren't really up to fighting the sorts of fights we are planning the system for) as a "pool" of HP that we'd pay straight number of IM to restore, if they get some of their members killed.
Excessive book-keeping otherwise.

Calculating how much "hp" and "damage" our radically different squads and creature-compositions would have is a bit of a pickle however.
 
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As I've said in the past, you can't really compress complex D&D creatures into simple army units.

Your best bet is approximating them in the terms of a wargame.
 
I don't understand a word of what anyone is saying... So good job figuring all that out cuz I sure as hell couldn't.

/Passed math like a champ with 51%
 
All things considered, the revised army combat system I cooked up for ToH was decently easy to run by hand and it spat out a decent spread of results, all while covering some decent diversity in units without becoming too complex.

Core issue though is that:
a) ASWAH has far too many very special troops
b) the system is made to run, at most, medieval battles, not post-modern magitek
c) ASWAH is, as a general rule, not really a game, as evident by how all game mechanics ever introduced are largely orphaned and irrelevant for 99% of what's going on

So, basically, I see no reason to have a mass combat system here at all. Especially with all the issues it would have to overcome.
 
egoo said:
Incedentally, @DragonParadox, those squad/army-fighting mechanics coming together anyhow?
We prolly should look for something very, very basic that would allow us to treat any squad (of creatures or constructs, mortals aren't really up to fighting the sorts of fights we are planning the system for) as a "pool" of HP that we'd pay straight number of IM to restore, if they get some of their members killed.
Excessive book-keeping otherwise.

Calculating how much "hp" and "damage" our radically different squads and creature-compositions would have is a bit of a pickle however.
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I'm thinking of just taking week away from posting once this turn is over and working on that exclusively until they are presentable.

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 20, 2020 at 9:32 AM, finished with 85 posts and 10 votes.
  • [X] Quickly store the imprisoned Daemon and it's former host in Viserys' cloak, then the group will move to investigate the chamber the Olethrodaemon was heading for.
    -[X] Viserys uses Wild Arcana to cast a Maximized Summon Monster VIII spell to Summon 5 Janni to invisibly scout the manse and gather up any documents or arcane paraphernalia. They will Telepathically communicate with the group if they run into trouble or find something they can't retrieve themselves.
    -[X] Malarys and Dany will each use Inspired Spell to Summon a group of Devils, and Zherys will expend an 7th level spell slot to do the same; 1d4+1 Bone Devils for Malarys and 1d4+1 Bearded Devils each for Dany and Zherys. They will command them to round up residents and lingering guests, subdue guards, and then barricade the manse using Wall of Ice SLAs, all while taking care not to cause serious injuries. They too will use Telepathy to apprise the group of anything of interest they may encounter or to ask for additional orders should it prove necessary.
    -[X] While the Jannis loot the rest of the manse and the Devils carry out their orders, the group will clear out the chamber.
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DragonParadox said:
I'm thinking of just taking week away from posting once this turn is over and working on that exclusively until they are presentable.

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 20, 2020 at 9:32 AM, finished with 85 posts and 10 votes.
  • [X] Quickly store the imprisoned Daemon and it's former host in Viserys' cloak, then the group will move to investigate the chamber the Olethrodaemon was heading for.
    -[X] Viserys uses Wild Arcana to cast a Maximized Summon Monster VIII spell to Summon 5 Janni to invisibly scout the manse and gather up any documents or arcane paraphernalia. They will Telepathically communicate with the group if they run into trouble or find something they can't retrieve themselves.
    -[X] Malarys and Dany will each use Inspired Spell to Summon a group of Devils, and Zherys will expend an 7th level spell slot to do the same; 1d4+1 Bone Devils for Malarys and 1d4+1 Bearded Devils each for Dany and Zherys. They will command them to round up residents and lingering guests, subdue guards, and then barricade the manse using Wall of Ice SLAs, all while taking care not to cause serious injuries. They too will use Telepathy to apprise the group of anything of interest they may encounter or to ask for additional orders should it prove necessary.
    -[X] While the Jannis loot the rest of the manse and the Devils carry out their orders, the group will clear out the chamber.
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If that's something you want to do, and would enjoy doing, then by all means have at it, but I don't think it deserves that much time and effort if you just want to fill out the system for those relatively rare times where we engage in mass combat that actually needs detailed tracking.
 
Goldfish said:
If that's something you want to do, and would enjoy doing, then by all means have at it, but I don't think it deserves that much time and effort if you just want to fill out the system for those relatively rare times where we engage in mass combat that actually needs detailed tracking.
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It's not so much that I want to but that it feels unfair and inconstant to wing the rolls and system like I do.
 
Frankly, I do not see the value in devoting this much effort into this.

I mean, I also invested that much effort into the turn system and of all the people in this thread, only @Crake, @egoo and me are engaging with it at all.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's not so much that I want to but that it feels unfair and inconstant to wing the rolls and system like I do.
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I think it seems excessive to spend a week, as far as I have been able to tell going through the quest only like 3 to 5 people even understand all the fiddly bits.

If you feel its needed do what you feel is right, just feel that most people like me can barely understand it all anyway.
 
Azel said:
Frankly, I do not see the value in devoting this much effort into this.

I mean, I also invested that much effort into the turn system and of all the people in this thread, only @Crake, @egoo and me are engaging with it at all.
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Because me and @egoo see it as a necessary evil which must be conducted to not have continuous discrepancies as DP is forced to just make shit up on the spot.

Which seems important enough for a handful of people to make the personal sacrifice to do a little book keeping now and again.
 
Well, alright.

I operated under the impression that the numbers of people assigned guarding somewhere would matter less if there is no system to model them by, but...
If y'all dont feel that-a-way...

Eh, probably won't ever matter.
All we are likely to see is case-by-case battles, and what few we won't I'm inclined to see done by narrative instead of mechanics.

@DragonParadox, consider my request rescinded.

Mechanics too complex are pointless here.
See book-reading effects. See background summoning. See action-based alignment shift.
 
Crake said:
Because me and @egoo see it as a necessary evil which must be conducted to not have continuous discrepancies as DP is forced to just make shit up on the spot.

Which seems important enough for a handful of people to make the personal sacrifice to do a little book keeping now and again.
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Yeah, but it's also something that we can reasonably run on this side of the screen.

Battles though? Not so much.
It would be all DP's job to figure it out and interpret the results, while the whole thread will bitch, whine and moan about all the restrictions the system produces by virtue of being a finite system with finite options.

I've been through all of this. I can assure you that it requires an amount of mulish stubbornness and dogged effort to establish a system that DP simply does not have or will wish to devote to this after the first backdraft begins.
 
Azel said:
Yeah, but it's also something that we can reasonably run on this side of the screen.

Battles though? Not so much.
It would be all DP's job to figure it out and interpret the results, while the whole thread will bitch, whine and moan about all the restrictions the system produces by virtue of being a finite system with finite options.

I've been through all of this. I can assure you that it requires an amount of mulish stubbornness and dogged effort to establish a system that DP simply does not have or will wish to devote to this after the first backdraft begins.
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I agree, it seems impractical to try to bend over backwords to bow to a relatively static ruleset, when the thing with the game setting and SRD providing nigh limitless options with player customization allowing you to completely flip the board and essentially negate a mechanical advantage the enemy side has.

That's not "provide an appreciable bonus on a large scale" for a mass combat ruling, that's more like "completely steam roll that type of enemy because you've gained practical immunity against it in matters of scale".
 
There is the Wrath and Glory model of mass mob fighting for larger battles if you want to look into that. It should make a quick and easy base to build off of.
 
Speed53066 said:
There is the Wrath and Glory model of mass mob fighting for larger battles if you want to look into that. It should make a quick and easy base to build off of.
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RPG system mass combat is usually only working for double digits of participants. Maybe triple digits if the ruleset was created with this in mind. However, we are looking at five to six digits of participants for an average battle that need to be handled. Together with ludicrous special abilities, wide-range effects, long range bombardment and so on and so forth.

Reconciling RPG systems with truly army-sized combat simulations is pretty much a lost cause. You have to make cuts and concessions somewhere and the ASWAH playerbase is exceedingly unlikely to accept those for the sake of a system that most people never will get to or want to engage with anyway. Speaking from lots of experience here.
 
Azel said:
You have to make cuts and concessions somewhere and the ASWAH playerbase is exceedingly unlikely to accept those for the sake of a system that most people never will get to or want to engage with anyway. Speaking from lots of experience here.
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You get a "hug"-rating and a heartfelt apology from me personally on this.
 
Coming from another direction, do you think the results of winging it where so far acceptable?
Sarnor as example, the losses in battle where maybe a bit low for the given foe and the lack of personal experience for most legionaires, but generally the battles were a good read and the results not too far out bounds for me.

Does anyone think that the previous method did not work and therefore needs to be rebuild from ground up?
 
egoo said:
You get a "hug"-rating and a heartfelt apology from me personally on this.
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I was speaking more about the experience part where I designed a whole bunch of systems, including combat systems, over the years. Defending the rough edges of a system is something you will always need to do and having to do so when it cuts into the freedoms that people are used to while they have no particular interest in the new system at all is ludicrously hard.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Coming from another direction, do you think the results of winging it where so far acceptable?
Sarnor as example, the losses in battle where maybe a bit low for the given foe and the lack of personal experience for most legionaires, but generally the battles were a good read and the results not too far out bounds for me.

Does anyone think that the previous method did not work and therefore needs to be rebuild from ground up?
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Hard to say, like I said, we negated multiple advantages the enemy side possessed at the beginning with all else being even, extrapolating from the spell effects, radius and range of those effects, and the abilities of the enemy forces.

Then we have to assume a lot of things. Like the explosive munition used as an artillery shell fired from a steam cannon can impact this much space, it does this much damage, and X are fired each round for Y duration.

To say nothing of unique creatures in our army list.

Mass combat in this quest requires many logical inferences to be made in order to have any sanity.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 20, 2020 at 9:32 AM, finished with 85 posts and 10 votes.
  • [X] Quickly store the imprisoned Daemon and it's former host in Viserys' cloak, then the group will move to investigate the chamber the Olethrodaemon was heading for.
    -[X] Viserys uses Wild Arcana to cast a Maximized Summon Monster VIII spell to Summon 5 Janni to invisibly scout the manse and gather up any documents or arcane paraphernalia. They will Telepathically communicate with the group if they run into trouble or find something they can't retrieve themselves.
    -[X] Malarys and Dany will each use Inspired Spell to Summon a group of Devils, and Zherys will expend an 7th level spell slot to do the same; 1d4+1 Bone Devils for Malarys and 1d4+1 Bearded Devils each for Dany and Zherys. They will command them to round up residents and lingering guests, subdue guards, and then barricade the manse using Wall of Ice SLAs, all while taking care not to cause serious injuries. They too will use Telepathy to apprise the group of anything of interest they may encounter or to ask for additional orders should it prove necessary.
    -[X] While the Jannis loot the rest of the manse and the Devils carry out their orders, the group will clear out the chamber.
Click to expand...
 
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