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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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enigma1995 said:
Bad idea for a few reasons.

1) Gives our enemies ideas that we don't have research actions to figure out how to counter.
2) We very much want to loot the bodies of our enemies.
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You act as though there are not others who have already figured out how to weaponize time manipulation.
 
Crake said:
Lya: "It's always turning it into a weapon with you... why not for the sake of SCIENCE?!"

Viserys: "Science benefits from weapon's development! It spurs innovation!"

Lya: "Your innovation is merely stifling progress by burying it under a mound of bodies!"

Viserys: "War is an inevitable progression of any ideological or societal development!"

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This is pretty great.
 
So how do we want to handle the silk-weavers? I'm inclined to encourage them to begin cultivating their crops in our waters, contingent on the successful establishment of an aquatic Planar Terminus and an understanding that any Silk-Weaver operations will be subject to Imperial laws and regulations.

This is a good step toward developing closer ties with an extraplanar ally while developing a profitable industry which will bring revenue to the Imperium while creating new jobs for aquatic citizens.

And if they try to screw us over, we can ruin them financially by doing their own shit better than they do.
 
Goldfish said:
So how do we want to handle the silk-weavers? I'm inclined to encourage them to begin cultivating their crops in our waters, contingent on the successful establishment of an aquatic Planar Terminus and an understanding that any Silk-Weaver operations will be subject to Imperial laws and regulations.

This is a good step toward developing closer ties with an extraplanar ally while developing a profitable industry which will bring revenue to the Imperium while creating new jobs for aquatic citizens.

And if they try to screw us over, we can ruin them financially by doing their own shit better than they do.
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Them being subject to our laws is a given.

But the update does have a point about their presence strangling any growing industry of our own citizens. Not even maliciously, just as a natural consequence of them being stupidly rich with far more resources.

I think something like this would be best served in requiring foreign corporations to undergo a joint venture if they want to operate in the Imperium, with the silk-weavers pairing up with locals. They get their profits and their mass production, and the local economy doesn't suffer for it.

It's not a perfect arrangement, but it does sidestep some of the bigger problems.
 
Duesal said:
Them being subject to our laws is a given.

But the update does have a point about their presence strangling any growing industry of our own citizens. Not even maliciously, just as a natural consequence of them being stupidly rich with far more resources.

I think something like this would be best served in requiring foreign corporations to undergo a joint venture if they want to operate in the Imperium, with the silk-weavers pairing up with locals. They get their profits and their mass production, and the local economy doesn't suffer for it.

It's not a perfect arrangement, but it does sidestep some of the bigger problems.
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Would it actually strangle any native industries, though? They've got a pretty specialized operation in a niche which our tritons probably haven't even thought about exploiting. Is this the case, @DragonParadox?
 
Goldfish said:
Would it actually strangle any native industries, though? They've got a pretty specialized operation in a niche which our tritons probably haven't even thought about exploiting. Is this the case, @DragonParadox?
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You're thinking of just sea silk which could be made by our Tritons, but the update talked about it surpassing silk in general. That's a direct competitor with Wyla's Naathi Silk business.

And given their scale of resources, if left with no checks they'd easily outcompete Wyla.
 
If they overproduce, they will crash their own market. There's just not enough buyers for a single product, unless you want to cloth every peasant in silk.

To me, this sounds like short-sighted idiots creating an economic bubble and then betting their lives on it.
 
Azel said:
If they overproduce, they will crash their own market. There's just not enough buyers for a single product, unless you want to cloth every peasant in silk.

To me, this sounds like short-sighted idiots creating an economic bubble and then betting their lives on it.
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I didn't consider that angle. Do we point this out to them?
 
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Azel said:
If they overproduce, they will crash their own market. There's just not enough buyers for a single product, unless you want to cloth every peasant in silk.

To me, this sounds like short-sighted idiots creating an economic bubble and then betting their lives on it.
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It won't get to the point of clothing every peasant in silk, but they can definitely crowd out native silks, they are pretty god at filling a niche to the point where it is still profitable but not beyond

Duesal said:
I didn't consider that angle. Do we point this out to them?
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Assume economic competence here. These are people with experience in such matters, they will not over-produce
 
This is basically the reverse of our problem with gold coming from the PoE. Gold was valuable on Planetos because it was rare, but on the PoE it's plenty. Likewise, the silk from the PoW is expensive because they have very limited land to produce it on while Planetos has ludicrous amounts of land available.

There's zero reason to assume they will become too rich to handle. They will instead oversaturate their own market unless they artificially limit their production.
DragonParadox said:
It won't get to the point of clothing every peasant in silk, but they can definitely crowd out native silks, they are pretty god at filling a niche to the point where it is still profitable but not beyond



Assume economic competence here. These are people with experience in such matters, they will not over-produce
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Then we need to talk about trust-busting, not silk production. Which is a completely different matter.
 
Duesal said:
You're thinking of just sea silk which could be made by our Tritons, but the update talked about it surpassing silk in general. That's a direct competitor with Wyla's Naathi Silk business.

And given their scale of resources, if left with no checks they'd easily outcompete Wyla.
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If it's a flat out better product and the Silk-Weavers are adept enough in managing their business to maintain long term profitability, I'm hard pressed to come up with a good reason to turn them down. @DragonParadox, how much of Wyla's revenues in Naath are related to their silk production?
Azel said:
This is basically the reverse of our problem with gold coming from the PoE. Gold was valuable on Planetos because it was rare, but on the PoE it's plenty. Likewise, the silk from the PoW is expensive because they have very limited land to produce it on while Planetos has ludicrous amounts of land available.

There's zero reason to assume they will become too rich to handle. They will instead oversaturate their own market unless they artificially limit their production.

Then we need to talk about trust-busting, not silk production. Which is a completely different matter.
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According to the Hermetia's inner monologue, their silk isn't actually that expensive. It's mentioned that the stuff is affordable for craftsmen and middling traders.
 
DragonParadox said:
Eventually maybe but they are going to start with the silk because that is what they know.
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No, I mean start trust-busting immediately when they set up a consortium to artificially inflate the price of their product.
Because when the amount of land that can be used to create their product goes from "extremely limited" to "extremely plenty", the price of the product will crash.

It would make far more sense for the situation to be reversed. That is, the guild wanting us to outlaw the farming of sea silk on Planetos to keep the rarity and thus thus the price high.
 
Azel said:
No, I mean start trust-busting immediately when they set up a consortium to artificially inflate the price of their product.
Because when the amount of land that can be used to create their product goes from "extremely limited" to "extremely plenty", the price of the product will crash.

It would make far more sense for the situation to be reversed. That is, the guild wanting us to outlaw the farming of sea silk on Planetos to keep the rarity and thus thus the price high.
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Eh that is not really feasible, too politically disunited. No one can police every league of coastal waters. What they want to do is produce more silk than they can in their limited PoW grow areas. Keep in mind solid foundations for the mollusks are at a premium out here, there is no seafloor. They want to get in on the ground floor of the expansion, even if it will eventually bust the bubble they can keep the profits and diversify later.
 
Goldfish said:
If it's a flat out better product and the Silk-Weavers are adept enough in managing their business to maintain long term profitability, I'm hard pressed to come up with a good reason to turn them down. @DragonParadox, how much of Wyla's revenues in Naath are related to their silk production?

According to the Hermetia's inner monologue, their silk isn't actually that expensive. It's mentioned that the stuff is affordable for craftsmen and middling traders.
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We don't need to turn them down wholesale, we'd just be well served making some regulations to restrict what they can do. That's part of why I brought up joint ventures. They'd be required to partner with local businesses for production, distribution, etc. That way our citizens aren't sidelined in production, and Wyla's silk industry isn't decimated. Hopefully. I'm assuming that Wyla would be involved in this and will promptly partner with the Silkweavers in some way so she isn't screwed.

They'd still have influence over our undersea economy, it just wouldn't be quite as massive as if there were no regulations.
 
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