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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
I'm gonna echo those saying take a break to actually write out notes on Google Docs for background and motivation and foreshadowing.

@DragonParadox
1. It would give you breathing room for the quest you've never actually had before.
2. It would make the quest quite a bit more rich to have villain motivations and backstories more solidly design and firmly woven into the narrative.
3. You saying this is mostly in your head is massively worrying. You really need to take notes.
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The last thing I took extensive notes for was... I think Yi Ti when I worked out culture and stuff. After that I could not find the time which in hindsight was rather silly of me, so many things slipped by.

I'm going to try to change that, see how learning to ride a bicycle while constantly juggling works.

I'll do my best to give this quest some kind of finality whatever happens.
 
DragonParadox said:
The last thing I took extensive notes for was... I think Yi Ti when I worked out culture and stuff. After that I could not find the time which in hindsight was rather silly of me, so many things slipped by.

I'm going to try to change that, see how learning to ride a bicycle while constantly juggling works.

I'll do my best to give this quest some kind of finality whatever happens.
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If you absolutely cannot stop writing, why not dial back to one slightly bigger update a day while using the rest of the time for planning and note taking? Give it a shot for a week, and if it doesn't feel right for you then switch to something else.
 
Duesal said:
If you absolutely cannot stop writing, why not dial back to one slightly bigger update a day while using the rest of the time for planning and note taking? Give it a shot for a week, and if it doesn't feel right for you then switch to something else.
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Or just one update day, with everything else used for book keeping and world building... we're all fine with that I think.
 
Duesal said:
If you absolutely cannot stop writing, why not dial back to one slightly bigger update a day while using the rest of the time for planning and note taking? Give it a shot for a week, and if it doesn't feel right for you then switch to something else.
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Seconded.
@DragonParadox, if you are so utterly, absolutely unwilling to go past half-measures, at least try to be reasonable about those you take.

1. Stop with the "vote after every update. Period.
2. Spend more time sketching things out. Not just in whichever ark we are doing, but in world overall. We are all gonna be fine with fewer updates a day.
And if you never get to show something off IC? Do a lore-post as 'Inquisition Intel' or something.
You'll always have a chance to share stuff written out.
3. Drop at least some axes. We have heard nada from Squids. It stands to reason they arent planning something massive. War against Efreeti is slow-boiling. It stand to reason we arent going to do the ritual for as long as a year.
4. Write out less stuff on-screen.
That proposition I had in PMs a day ago? It would work perfectly well now since we only need the most Major [REDACTED] shown on-screen in any manner, not every single slightest thing, as we always had.

With this much, we all can live without major mechanical changes, I think.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Walling off whole pieces of the world just feels like giving up in pieces rather than in whole. It's n option but I would not call it palatable. Might hav to do it though
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That's the thing. These issues come up because you set yourself some goal that you can't meet, then sacrificing quality, plot and coherence to somehow force them to happen anyway.

And a lot of the reason is that you still run this on a D&D campaign time frame, where everything has to happen back to back. The CoB war has been going for centuries. It's a conflict of the scale of multiple World Wars, yet you pace it as if it has to wrap up in 5 PC missions spread over a few months.

Same thing with everything else.

You should think about what you want the overall framing of the quest to be, instead of PCs just running around and doing random things in random places with no real connection to each other. A lot of arcs suffer from this theme park feel, where everything is a self-contained attraction that is divorced from the wider world.
 
I think people need to calm the fuck down. DP has been doing this for YEARS, and like in real life certain events are going to happen that are similar to each other. Evil targeting children is it's nature and not cliche. Assuming every encounter will be completely original is deluded.

Taking into consideration DP problems with stopping to take the time to plan and plot I'd suggest a week or two of just one update a day, and then spend that new free time planning and plotting for the future. I don't think this should die at all and some people need to calm down on the expectations of near perfection in every post. So far despite a difference in opinion on some points I've found just about every post an enjoyable read.

Considering how much shit I get for being blunt and direct about what I have problems with in quests and stories I believe that says something in your favor DP.
 
OK i guess I'll bite the bullet and stop updates for a few days and try to get everything with the villains and plots down in writing to hopefully make a more engaging and richer character experience going forward. I may do some blurbs and lore in the quest in the meantime. Hopefully we can reorder the sheets at the same time.
 
DragonParadox said:
OK i guess I'll bite the bullet and stop updates for a few days and try to get everything with the villains and plots down in writing to hopefully make a more engaging and richer character experience going forward. I may do some blurbs and lore in the quest in the meantime. Hopefully we can reorder the sheets at the same time.
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Definitely put most of your focus on note taking and reconciliation of the villains and their motivations, and overall behind the scenes world building. Don't worry too much about getting more posts and blurbs out.
 
egoo said:
You seem to be targetting Azel here.
I've learned my lesson on staying quiet when shit like that happens so...

Please, Cease. And. Fucking. Desist.

We are all worried about making this story better narrative.
This quest better game.
This community less prone to salt.

Azel raises reasonable, if somewhat personal points.

You have no right to defame him like that just because you disagree with something stated previously.

No more than I had the right act the way I did during the Conclave, no more than... that one guy continuously claiming DP and Azel wrote Lucan the way they did to hurt the thread, before leaving.
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Why should i cease. There is a right way and a wrong way of giving criticism. And if someone's criticsm ruins someones day and causes the author to consider giving up the project, then that is clearly the wrong thing to do.
Especially since this has happended multiple times in the past. Azel always does this, try to force the quest to change when someone disagrees there is a huge fight and then they quit the quest for a few months. This has happened multiple times and it always hurts DPs motivation and causes them sadness.

If someones actions have repeatedly hurt someone, i have the right to call it out as being wrong. DP shouldn't have to suffer for doing what is in the end an hobby.
 
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Acolyte said:
Why should i cease. There is a right way and a wrong way of giving criticism. And if someone's criticsm ruins someones day and causes the author to consider giving up the project, then that is clearly the wrong thing to do.
Especially since this has happended multiple times in the past. Azel always does this, try to force the quest to change when someone disagrees there is a huge fight and then they quit the quest for a few months. This has happened multiple times and it always hurts DPs motivation and causes them sadness.

If someones actions have repeatedly hurt someone, i have the right to call it out as being wrong. DP shouldn't have to suffer for doing what is in the end an hobby.
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While I appreciate that you are trying to keep me from getting hurt I said it from way back in the Aberi debacle that I would rather hear criticism and the last thing I want is people silencing dissenting voices because I'm upset.
 
Acolyte said:
Why should i cease. There is a right way and a wrong way of giving criticism. And if someone's criticsm ruins someones day and causes the author to consider giving up the project, then that is clearly the wrong thing to do.
Especially since this has happended multiple times in the past. Azel always does this, try to force the quest to change when someone disagrees there is a huge fight and then they quit the quest for a few months. This has happened multiple times and it always hurts DPs motivation and causes them sadness.

If someones actions have repeatedly hurt someone, i have the right to call it out as being wrong. DP shouldn't have to suffer for doing what is in the end an hobby.
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Yet you are doing the same thing to Azel, no?
This is fairly hypocritical of you.

Azel'a criticism has place in this quest.
We are fairly low-key in how we do things compared to other quests, too...

That guy I mentioned?
Who gave "criticism" on Lucan and left?
That stuff was inexcusable and just trying to hurt people pouring sweat and blood into the quest to make it work, because he didn't like it.

Azel's stuff comes from both loving this story/quest and wanting it to be better.

Yes, he salts.
Wouldn't you, if every almost every person who ever responded to his plans/ideas in-depth criticized them?
I dare you to try and find an idea of his in this quest that didn't cause someone to salt over it, for one reason or the other.

And yet, he objectively made the game, and the story, better.

Hope you don't mind me pointing out either, that every change that came for Big Better in this quest, came from active criticism?
Maybe salty, but active discussion?

It has it's place.
As much as discussion on Morality System did.
As much as discussion on Month Mechanics did (for all my poor conduct then).
As much as change on way we do RAs/MAs did.
As much as change of way we structure narrative (no interlude-interrupts) now.

DP always feels bad when we criticize things this way.
Because he feels that he failed us/the story and there's "no fixing it now that we got this far" from such a failure.
Only, like, every time there has been.

So yeah, even stuff DP stated above aside, this way of criticizing is important and established in this quest. No matter how personal it may be in this specific case.


...Sorry @Azel, after the years of this shit I feel like this needs to be said, even if I come off as overly defensive of you as such :/
 
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Azel said:
Unlike DP, I have no right to be attached to my work though, didn't you know?
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Sorry, meant "may/may not" there for better neutral statement.
Kinda hurried writing it out :oops:

I believe you, DP, Crake, Snowfire back then... and everyone who never even wrote anything for the story in equal right to criticize anything here, really.
Wouldn't be much of a collaborative project (as DP insists it being) if some people somehow had more/less right to anything than the others around here.

...I feel extremely awkward writing out stuff like this.
I'm not a very 'people' member of the community.

I hope I managed to carry my point across, and imma shut up now.
 
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egoo said:
Yet you are doing the same thing to Azel, no?
This is fairly hypocritical of you.

Azel'a criticism has place in this quest.
We are fairly low-key in how we do things compared to other quests, too...

That guy I mentioned?
Who gave "criticism" on Lucan and left?
That stuff was inexcusable and just trying to hurt people pouring sweat and blood into the quest to make it work, because he didn't like it.

Azel's stuff comes from both loving this story/quest and wanting it to be better.

Yes, he salts.
Wouldn't you, if every almost every person who ever responded to his plans/ideas in-depth criticized them?
I dare you to try and find an idea of his in this quest that didn't cause someone to salt over it, for one reason or the other.

And yet, he objectively made the game, and the story, better.

Hope you don't mind me pointing out either, that every change that came for Big Better in this quest, came from active criticism?
Maybe salty, but active discussion?

It has it's place.
As much as discussion on Morality System did.
As much as discussion on Month Mechanics did (for all my poor conduct then).
As much as change on way we do RAs/MAs did.
As much as change of way we structure narrative (no interlude-interrupts) now.

DP always feels bad when we criticize things this way.
Because he feels that he failed us/the story and there's "no fixing it now that we got this far" from such a failure.
Only, like, every time there has been.

So yeah, even stuff DP stated above aside, this way of criticizing is important and established in this quest. No matter how personal it may be in this specific case.


...Sorry @Azel, after the years of this shit I feel like this needs to be said, even if I come off as overly defensive of you as such :/
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I don't put the quest over someone's emotional well being. If this way of criticising DP always hurts him. Maybe try a different way that doesn't hurt him.

Ultimately i am not saying that you shouldn't criticising DP. I am saying maybe review the way that you offer that criticism.

Because ultimately there is a problem in the entire process of giving criticism.
I admit Azel has worked in the quest and has a right to be attached to this quest. But it doesn't give him a right to hurt someones feeling. And if i hurt his feeling i apologise.
 
Acolyte said:
I don't put the quest over someone's emotional well being. If this way of criticising DP always hurts him. Maybe try a different way that doesn't hurt him.

Ultimately i am not saying that you shouldn't criticising DP. I am saying maybe review the way that you offer that criticism.

Because ultimately there is a problem in the entire process of giving criticism.
I admit Azel has worked in the quest and has a right to be attached to this quest. But it doesn't give him a right to hurt someones feeling. And if i hurt his feeling i apologise.
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The thing is I have a right to put my feelings below the quality of this quest don't I? It's not like a bit of criticism is devastating to me, it hurts a little, but it helps a lot. I feel good when as a result of that criticism I improve as a writer.
 
Welp... I've just written 3500 words of stream of consciousness notes that would probably induce a migraine in anyone else reading them, but it's down at least. More to do tomorrow.

If you guys have any questions about the quest worldbuilding or anything else flee free to ask, I'll be sticking around the thread.
 
You might want to roll on the stuff we discussed, @DragonParadox ?
Those things being cut down on in detail of is still something I'm very much an advocate of, however.
Only truly Major stuff should be seen on-screen. Reports, that wont take as much as a whole chapter for, for all else.
 

From this clip it looks like Smaug is about the size of a simple two-story building when comparing to his main body, though the wings and breath make him look bigger at times.
 
Acolyte said:
Google says 18 meters.
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Balerion is much larger than that, by order of magnitudes. I'd have to look up world of fire and ice

egoo said:
You might want to roll on the stuff we discussed, @DragonParadox ?
Those things being cut down on in detail of is still something I'm very much an advocate of, however.
Only truly Major stuff should be seen on-screen. Reports, that wont take as much as a whole chapter for, for all else.
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I don't want to cut down on those entirely, I like writing research progress mostly and they offer a good opportunity for character pieces.

Speaking of me genuinely liking to write, I might have another update today. Partly it's because I was inspired, partly because this needs a wrap up.
 
Ideally we should leave some of the more epic/mythic content for AFTER we claim the throne, IMO. Not necessarily cut, but delayed (there's always reasons for this, like timing, logistical/manpower concerns with over-extending, impatience of allies, or opponents deciding to keep a low profile meaning it'd take time for Inquisition agents to find the next breadcrumb in the trail). Have it be the next stage.

Suggested path: Clear current quest to a satisfactory degree (insert buildup for later revisit) -> Conquer Westeros -> Consolidation ->next step -> Round 2 with the devils.
 
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